Some advice on Berber Wicking

BLewis

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Hey guys I have a friend that operates a cc business elsewhere that gave me a call today with a new problem that he hasn't faced before. He cleaned some berber the other day that had been bonnet cleaned for 10 years every 6 months. After cleaning the traffic areas came back orange/yellow tint. He went back and cleaned again 300 psi, used very little prespray, ran a fan for 1 hour but with very high humidity. He received call back today that problem came back but not quite as bad. Ask me for suggestions. He doesn't have a bonnet machine or a 175 so all I new to tell him was go back use an acid rinse and fans again.

My thinking is that there is so much build up of residue from 10 years of bonneting that he is getting some serious wickback. Please give me some more suggestions for him, he is going back Thur to try to fix again. Since, I have never ran into this problem I really don't know how to help him.
 

Jeremy

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I'd go back to the acid side with a rinse agent... If it's deterrmined to be pH browning....

If it's wicking & it's already been thoroughly flushed another VLM cleaning won't hurt.
DEC (deodorize, encapsulate & clean) it with some snake oil & a bonnet will most likely take care of it. A light mist of 4-8 oz to a qt after the fact will be a nice anti-wicking treatment and spotter as well.
 

Jeremy

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DECing can be an effective method of detergent residue removal as well. It does not however, slice, dice or make any sort of fries...
 

J Scott W

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First check to see if it is browning that can be corrected by an acid rinse or an aicd post spray. No reason to do the entire carpet until you know what works. Test a small area. with an acid product such as Fab Set

The next thing I would try is an anti-wicking encapsulation product. Spray on Encapugaurd and groom it into the fibers.

If neither of those tactics works, I would look to borrow or rent a 175 or a CRB machine and encap clean.
 

XTREME1

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just go in and spray your acid rinse such as Prochem all fiber, orangeforce 10 down as a prespray, scrub it in and let it do its job then extract, you want to flush the fibers and easy way to check is take a lightly damp rag and press against the areas if the rag comes up discolored you are in luck because it can be flushed. If it doesn't sometimes the berbers are going to show their age especially in high traffic areas. The reason it may not have been noticable before is because the carpet was evenly soiled. Ask you friend if he noticed a substantial difference in the color of the carpet during cleaning. Alot of people don't realize after you cleaned the carpet the change in color that is why it is always a good idea to let them see the hallfway point.
 

BLewis

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To All,
Thanks for the tips, I have copied and pasted and emailed them to him. He doesn't currently own a 175 so if the other suggestions don't work he may have to rent one.


Again thanks for the help.
 

GeneMiller

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A properly vacuumed and properly flushed Berber doesn't turn brown when it dries. the brown is almost surely dirt wicking up. flush it out and then extra dry strokes. 600 psi nice and slow gets the job done. we use a clear tube to check if we are leaving it clean and dry.
just my opinion

gene
 
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GeneMiller said:
A properly vacuumed and properly flushed Berber doesn't turn brown when it dries. the brown is almost surely dirt wicking up. flush it out and then extra dry strokes. 600 psi nice and slow gets the job done. we use a clear tube to check if we are leaving it clean and dry.
just my opinion

gene


I'm with Gene on this one. I think it's a soild wicking.
 

XTREME1

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Really? so there is never any serious fiber damage to berbers. That is awesome can you guys send me a video on how to handle all of the suspect fiber damage cures? Because with a tight woven berber high traffic areas usually tend to fray. This may be unique to the Northeast since it doesn't happen in Gene Millers area or Mountain view carpets
 
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Greg Crowley said:
Really? so there is never any serious fiber damage to berbers. That is awesome can you guys send me a video on how to handle all of the suspect fiber damage cures? Because with a tight woven berber high traffic areas usually tend to fray. This may be unique to the Northeast since it doesn't happen in Gene Millers area or Mountain view carpets


Read very carefully Greg, I think it's a soil wicking issue. I Understand what wear does to face yarns.
 
G

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in your life your going to run into some carpets that just cant be cleaned with out problems
10 years of bonnet cleaning

sounds like new carpet is in order but the problem is now the new cleaners
 

XTREME1

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Really it is wicking aftrer cleaning twice? That must be one shitty carpet cleaner
 

DevilDog

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Gregory, Gregory, my dear Gregory.....I will tell you how to fix this but you must first do me a favor...remove your panties, take some ibuprofen, and change the pad....because from the above post it seems like it is THAT time of the month for you young man.

I am about 99.999999999999% positive from what I have read here that this is soil wicking. It does NOT take much soil to create a soil wicking condition that can make your life a miserable bitch. On what you have explained it seems as though the carpet had probably (but not always) been improperly cleaned. This has led to a huge soil buildup that could take a few more HEAVY cleanings to get out. Once that soil gets into those tight grouped fibers and into the loops themselves it is a BITCH to get out.

If you just say the word water the carpet wicks. So Gregory my dear sufferer of MPMS (mens premenstrual syndrome) please carefully listen to me on how to clean this carpet.

You want to let the client know that this carpet is going to wick soil and do it so badly that it might seem like it was never even cleaned.

You then want to go in and hit it HARD (and I mean hit it hard like that carpet was Breviks FACE) with a good pre-spay. Really hit it hard. You do NOT care if it wicks some because you are going to force it to wick.

You are then going to turn up the pressure or use a RX-20 and try to flush the living hell out of the carpet. Really really really flush that carpet...again, you know it is going to wick. You want it to wick. But the key is that the more flushing you do the less soil that is going to wick. You are NOT going to get all of it....so again, expect it to wick.

Now here is the key....do NOT put airmovers on that carpet. LET IT WICK! You want all the remaining soil or most of it to come to the surface.

Now you are going to go back the second day and use an encapsulation cleaner with THIN cotton pads...no, not the cotton pads you seem to be using now or use a few days of the month but the cotton pads Wacked Out John G. sells. They are the best.

You are then going to lightly mist the encapsulation cleaner on the carpet and slowly but SURELY pad the remaining soil off. You are going to use a lot of pads. None of this quickly going over the carpet like so many do with a bonnet. Nope that is the HACK way of padding. You are going to take your time and get that soil out of the carpet.

Next, if that does not completely work you are going to take some 40 volume hydrogen peroxide and lightly mist it over the carpet and either leave it (if you think you got most of the soil) or you are going to put some on a little heavier and then pad that off. It works, trust me.

Another technique that you can,and Rich knows about this, is to take sodium bisulfate (sic) and do with it what I said to do with the hydrogen peroxide. It is technically also a bleach, it just works as a reducer.

We just got done cleaning the absolute worse commercial carpet for wicking I have EVER seen. We were told that nine other cleaners had tried to clean it and the results were not good. We got a chance to work on the toughest area and it came out so good they had us do the entire carpet. This was a carpet so loaded with soil that it was really hard to believe you were not actually cleaning dirt paths. Rich, from Mountain View, was one of the other cleaners that had cleaned this carpet.

Unfortunately for Rich he was just called in by another cleaner to help and Rich did NOT get to do what he wanted to do which is what I described above. If he had been able to do it his way HE would have gotten the account. Sorry Rich but that is what happens when you work with guys that don't know JACK. Anyway, Rich knows what he is doing. So listen to us Gregory.

Some of what has been described is wear...no doubt....but these types of carpets can hold an amazing amount of soil and it needs to be flushed out aggressively and then the rest needs to be padded. NOT bonetted....padded! Major difference.

Many have been taught to go light on the prespray and the pressure but on these nasty wicking carpets going light just ensures that more soil is going to wick to cause you sleepless nights. And Gregory, we know the cramping and bloating is already causing you many problems....so just listen up son and be sure to tell them it will not be perfect. And charge a lot!

Rich, a trip to the strip club is much needed. Call me.

DevilDog
 
F

FB7777

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hey devildork, whats all the "we" crap like you're some kind of successful businessman?


we all know you had to fold up shop, change your name and are now cleaning out of the back of ryder rental van for lunch money


good to see you haven't lost your edge while you are teetering over it :shock:
 

XTREME1

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Fred would you reclean for a third time or would you be able to say what was wrong after the first time?

That is the problem with stupid, there isn't a cure. Sometimes in life people are just stupid and sometimes they don't realize it hence the post from Devildouche...Bleach the carpet if you can't properly clean it...That isn't advice from a hack HUH
 

Dolly Llama

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while you eXpUrtz are rambling on.....

guess I'll just ask some questions


"After cleaning the traffic areas came back orange/yellow tint. He went back and cleaned again 300 psi, used very little prespray, ran a fan for 1 hour but with very high humidity."


find out what pre-spray he used Billy..
also whether the yellow tint was immediate or after it dried.

Next question, did the YELLOW tint go away when he re-cleaned it, only to return after dry?

I donno what kind dirt ya'll got down there, but YELLOW isn't a color we see associated with soil wicking.
It's generally an indicator of too high PH bath tub gin pre-sprays .
I've seen it with home owners dumping oxy-clean on their white/light colored carpets too

Maybe from Billy's friend, or the bonnet hEd ...or a combination of both


..L.T.A.
 
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DevilDog said:
Gregory, Gregory, my dear Gregory.....I will tell you how to fix this but you must first do me a favor...remove your panties, take some ibuprofen, and change the pad....because from the above post it seems like it is THAT time of the month for you young man.

I am about 99.999999999999% positive from what I have read here that this is soil wicking. It does NOT take much soil to create a soil wicking condition that can make your life a miserable bitch. On what you have explained it seems as though the carpet had probably (but not always) been improperly cleaned. This has led to a huge soil buildup that could take a few more HEAVY cleanings to get out. Once that soil gets into those tight grouped fibers and into the loops themselves it is a BITCH to get out.

If you just say the word water the carpet wicks. So Gregory my dear sufferer of MPMS (mens premenstrual syndrome) please carefully listen to me on how to clean this carpet.

You want to let the client know that this carpet is going to wick soil and do it so badly that it might seem like it was never even cleaned.

You then want to go in and hit it HARD (and I mean hit it hard like that carpet was Breviks FACE) with a good pre-spay. Really hit it hard. You do NOT care if it wicks some because you are going to force it to wick.

You are then going to turn up the pressure or use a RX-20 and try to flush the living hell out of the carpet. Really really really flush that carpet...again, you know it is going to wick. You want it to wick. But the key is that the more flushing you do the less soil that is going to wick. You are NOT going to get all of it....so again, expect it to wick.

Now here is the key....do NOT put airmovers on that carpet. LET IT WICK! You want all the remaining soil or most of it to come to the surface.

Now you are going to go back the second day and use an encapsulation cleaner with THIN cotton pads...no, not the cotton pads you seem to be using now or use a few days of the month but the cotton pads Wacked Out John G. sells. They are the best.

You are then going to lightly mist the encapsulation cleaner on the carpet and slowly but SURELY pad the remaining soil off. You are going to use a lot of pads. None of this quickly going over the carpet like so many do with a bonnet. Nope that is the HACK way of padding. You are going to take your time and get that soil out of the carpet.

Next, if that does not completely work you are going to take some 40 volume hydrogen peroxide and lightly mist it over the carpet and either leave it (if you think you got most of the soil) or you are going to put some on a little heavier and then pad that off. It works, trust me.

Another technique that you can,and Rich knows about this, is to take sodium bisulfate (sic) and do with it what I said to do with the hydrogen peroxide. It is technically also a bleach, it just works as a reducer.

We just got done cleaning the absolute worse commercial carpet for wicking I have EVER seen. We were told that nine other cleaners had tried to clean it and the results were not good. We got a chance to work on the toughest area and it came out so good they had us do the entire carpet. This was a carpet so loaded with soil that it was really hard to believe you were not actually cleaning dirt paths. Rich, from Mountain View, was one of the other cleaners that had cleaned this carpet.

Unfortunately for Rich he was just called in by another cleaner to help and Rich did NOT get to do what he wanted to do which is what I described above. If he had been able to do it his way HE would have gotten the account. Sorry Rich but that is what happens when you work with guys that don't know JACK. Anyway, Rich knows what he is doing. So listen to us Gregory.

Some of what has been described is wear...no doubt....but these types of carpets can hold an amazing amount of soil and it needs to be flushed out aggressively and then the rest needs to be padded. NOT bonetted....padded! Major difference.

Many have been taught to go light on the prespray and the pressure but on these nasty wicking carpets going light just ensures that more soil is going to wick to cause you sleepless nights. And Gregory, we know the cramping and bloating is already causing you many problems....so just listen up son and be sure to tell them it will not be perfect. And charge a lot!

Rich, a trip to the strip club is much needed. Call me.

DevilDog



Todd you crack me up :)
 

everfresh1

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meAt said:
while you eXpUrtz are rambling on.....

guess I'll just ask some questions


"After cleaning the traffic areas came back orange/yellow tint. He went back and cleaned again 300 psi, used very little prespray, ran a fan for 1 hour but with very high humidity."


find out what pre-spray he used Billy..
also whether the yellow tint was immediate or after it dried.

Next question, did the YELLOW tint go away when he re-cleaned it, only to return after dry?

I donno what kind dirt ya'll got down there, but YELLOW isn't a color we see associated with soil wicking.
It's generally an indicator of too high PH bath tub gin pre-sprays .
I've seen it with home owners dumping oxy-clean on their white/light colored carpets too

Maybe from Billy's friend, or the bonnet hEd ...or a combination of both


..L.T.A.


I Agree Larry, I don't know what the hell these guys are doing. :roll:
 

XTREME1

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just go in and spray your acid rinse such as Prochem all fiber, orangeforce 10 down as a prespray, scrub it in and let it do its job then extract, you want to flush the fibers and easy way to check is take a lightly damp rag and press against the areas if the rag comes up discolored you are in luck because it can be flushed. If it doesn't sometimes the berbers are going to show their age especially in high traffic areas. The reason it may not have been noticable before is because the carpet was evenly soiled. Ask you friend if he noticed a substantial difference in the color of the carpet during cleaning. Alot of people don't realize after you cleaned the carpet the change in color that is why it is always a good idea to let them see the hallfway point.
You agree with Larry but not what I said?
If you don't know how to handle it your a newbie or a hack
 

Art Kelley

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Mountain View Carpet Care said:
DevilDog said:
Gregory, Gregory, my dear Gregory.....I will tell you how to fix this but you must first do me a favor...remove your panties, take some ibuprofen, and change the pad....because from the above post it seems like it is THAT time of the month for you young man.

.............. And Gregory, we know the cramping and bloating is already causing you many problems....so just listen up son and be sure to tell them it will not be perfect. And charge a lot!



DevilDog



Todd you crack me up :)


Dog has Crowley's number. There is a lot of anger issues there. Getting cornholed by a shady transmission mechanic certainly doesn't help. That would piss off Mother Teresa, much less an angry idiot.
 

XTREME1

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No anger on part Art. I live life as a lucky man. I just hate when morons give bad advice. Go in with a high Ph with a wicking problem(after it has been cleaned twice the same way) is one of the dumbest things I have read and the idiots like you follow like sheeple:)

Th tranny may went in the 745i but atleast I have a back up car and will have the Beemer back thursday
 

Art Kelley

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In any event, I know the other Greg, Cole, would just "dry clean" the berbers and avoid this problem to begin with. LOL. And I do agree with you Crowley, just an acid side spray of acidic or citric then a neutral rinse would eliminate it. You just don't have to be so pissy.
 

XTREME1

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That is the way I roll Art. I always have to be right, I am very fragile
 

everfresh1

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Greg Crowley said:
just go in and spray your acid rinse such as Prochem all fiber, orangeforce 10 down as a prespray, scrub it in and let it do its job then extract, you want to flush the fibers and easy way to check is take a lightly damp rag and press against the areas if the rag comes up discolored you are in luck because it can be flushed. If it doesn't sometimes the berbers are going to show their age especially in high traffic areas. The reason it may not have been noticable before is because the carpet was evenly soiled. Ask you friend if he noticed a substantial difference in the color of the carpet during cleaning. Alot of people don't realize after you cleaned the carpet the change in color that is why it is always a good idea to let them see the hallfway point.
You agree with Larry but not what I said?
If you don't know how to handle it your a newbie or a hack


Who the hell are you again? I didn't say I didn't agree with you, But I would use Art's method anyway, I was mainly refering to that idiot Todd, I don't know what the hell hes doing. So chill out, I've been cleaning carpets since you were in diapers Newbie :wink:
 

GRHeacock

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"Berber" is a type of tufting.

It is made with loose weave, with the tufts further apart than most other tufted or woven carpets.

Very little spin on the yarns compared to other types of carpet.

There are many kinds of "Berber" carpet.

You have your 100% wool.

You have your 50-50 wool and nylon blends.

You have your 100% nylon.

You have your nylon and polyester blend.

You have your 100% polyester.

You have your polyester and olefin blend.

You have your 100% olefin.

You have your 100% PET.

So, which of the above are you dealing with?

Don't know? Find out.

As to the wicking- it is SOMETHING coming up from below.

Could be dirt. Could be residue from prior cleanings. Could be residue from something the customer used.

Could be from something tracked in, or spilled on.

Could be from the carpet backing or from the padding, where he got the carpet too wet in the cleaning.

If he cannot solve the problem with the above suggestions, and one more effort, I suggest he call in an inspector.

The inspector will solve the problem, and he can learn what the problem is. Yes it will cost some money for the inspector, but chalk it up to learning.

That will be less than replacing the carpet.

Gary
 

BLewis

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Thanks for the other replys guys. The cleaner is located around Tampa Florida. He is going back at it today.
 

tim

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You have had tons of advice on this and truthfully, any of them could work. It could be fixed with acid or not. It could be fixed by flushing but be prepared to flush several times and get worse before it gets better. I would go the safe way like Jeremy and Scott W. suggested. I had one very similar and acid didnt fix it, I lost my nerve flushing after I saw this could be a long process and was making my high-end client anxious so I encapped it very lightly adding ARA to the mix, OPd it with a dry thin terry bonnet and dried with fans. As it would wick more, I would touch it up again and again. It came out perfect and since she owns a high-end real estate brokerage, have received many great referrals since. Lots of great advice above, all you can do is choose one and see it through. There is always more than one way to do anything
 
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rotovacguy

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BLewis said:
Thanks for the other replys guys. The cleaner is located around Tampa Florida. He is going back at it today.







Maybe he's one of Cole's subs?..... :lol:
 

Greg Cole

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BLewis said:
Thanks for the other replys guys. The cleaner is located around Tampa Florida. He is going back at it today.

I am in Tampa this and next week and would be happy to show him how to "dry clean" the berber! :)
 

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