Steve Toburanex

Mikey P

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So Steve, why the sudden belated interest in Encapsulation?


Kinda passe at this point.

Sure some shampoo and a CIMEXINaTOR can make a carpet look good enough but everyone who bought in when the original wave of hype started years ago knows by now it ain't all it's cracked up to be long term.



How do you spell mud in PertOH Rikkan?
 

Dolly Llama

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I did ask the question when I saw Steve recommend encRap, but didn't see the answer..or maybe missed it ??

I was curious how many jobs Steve's crew encRapped when he was in biz

I was curious how much experience he has with the method


..l.T.A.
 

Mikey P

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I RVi'd a gift shop we've encapped at least 20 times last night.


The water would never run clean through the site tube. Pounds of sand in the tank


Lumpy ass concrete underneath.


Total nightmare.
Streaked it up something fierce.


Most likely have to go back and grind it all in again with the Cimex.


Once you start with the hocus pocus methods it's best to just stick with them.
most clients can't tell the difference any how.


Just make the soda spill go away and who cares if there is seven pound of skank hideing in every yard.
 

Joe Bristor

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Since when did Steve say he lived in a box?
It's OK Steve if your agenda changes a little with the times.
Why, I bet you even have a telefono.

Write an article "Satisfaction is in the eyes of the beholder" then send these mouse jockeys a link so they never have to leave their cube.
 

Steve Toburen

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Mikey P said:
So Steve, why the sudden belated interest in Encapsulation? ... everyone who bought in when the original wave of hype started years ago knows by now it ain't all it's cracked up to be long term.

You know it is never going to be good when you see your name in lights on Mikeysboard when you sit down at your computer at 6 in the morning.

Listen carefully here, Mike. I have ZERO interest in "encapsulation" or frankly any other cleaning technology on its own. I have LOTS of interest in helping carpet cleaners of all types become more successful than they are now. (I don't sell equipment at Jon-Don and honestly don't even know what equipment lines we carry anymore. My "job description" from Nick Paolella when he asked me to develop what has morphed into the SFS program was, "Help our customers grow and be more successful." That's all anyone at Jon-Don has ever asked me to do for the last 14 years.)

To me encapping is just another method/weapon in a business owner's arsenal. (Mike, how can I say respectfully that your business model is a bit ADD- with your cleaning methods/equipment swinging wildly based on your current flavor of the month? You know, I can't say it nice so I won't.)

NOTE: Larry, when I sold my business I had not yet discovered the Cimex. If I had I would have probably owned 2 or 3. They would have sat right next to the four RX-20's I owned! We did use low moisture pad-type encapsulation on a lot of our institutional accounts like colleges, hospitals, medical offices, hotel lobbies and hallways and other areas with lower traffic counts. We also used it where we needed low noise/fast drying. I think today I would mix and match a lot of my monthly restaurant and definitely retail accounts with a mixture of HW extraction in some areas and encapping in other lighter traffic zones.

So why my new "encap" interest? I find lots of cleaners are "stuck" in the sense that they just don't want to take that first HUGE step from one truck to two. Why not? Let me count the ways. (Feel free to chime in on this list.)

1. Greatly increased overhead. Not just the truck and machine payment. Also the cost of another salary/ withholding/ worker's comp/ bookkeeping, etc. Plus as you grow more you will need a commercial location/office staff/more fixed overhead which adds ...

2. Pressure, lots and lots of pressure. As an owner-op if a big job cancels you slam out the other little job and go home early for some fun time with the missus. But now that you have an employee(s) and work cancels/doesn't book your world caves in. With full time employees you take on a moral obligation to them and their family to work them ... well, full time. But now that you are busting your hump for your "loyal" full time employees many times they will ...

3. Hold you hostage. So lets say you deal with #1 and #2 above. Now you are booked solid for three weeks with two trucks and three employees. Life is stressful but good. But now your employee(s) realize "you need them more than they need you" and start to take "liberties". Whatcha gonna do- fire 'em? You're overbooked with way more work than you personally can do.

4. Playing the "whack-a-mole" game- It never stops with full time people. Family problems, substance abuse issues, money problems and guess who becomes co-dependent right along with them? You do.

Now sure, Mike, once a company hits what I call "Critical Mass" much of this smooths out. Believe it or not a 3 or 4 truck company with 5 or 6 techs is much easier to run than one with one or two employees. Your eggs aren't all in one basket. (See #3 above.)

So I'm always looking for a "transition scheme" to help an owner-operator carpet cleaner grow (if they want to) but without all the immediate financial and emotional stress of a full-blown expansion. Remember to a certain degree I'm driven by our SFS member reports I get back from the field. I'm finding some cleaners out there are adding substantially to their net profits WITHOUT having to add the fixed and variable overhead I detail above. How?

By building commercial contract encapsulation "routes". These entrepreneurs are selling commercial contract cleaning and putting all their initial work on just one night (let's say Thursday) per week. (No more than 6 hours.) Then after they get four consecutive Thursdays full they hire a PART TIME employee, give them the filled out Job Profiles, a Cimex and the juice and 25% of the gross. (The employee uses their own vehicle and gets paid a mileage allowance.)

Then you keep selling and fill another 6 hour night. But you don't let your first part time employee do this work. (Even though he will beg to have it!) Instead, you are going to spread your risk and hire a second part time employee. (Folks tell me never give any one employee more than 2-3 nights per week.) Once again, always spread your risk and keep your people hungry for more. (See #3 above.)

The Cimex and encapping really works well in the business model above because it is a) a whole lot cheaper to put an employee on the road with a Cimex instead of a TM (as in a little over 3K versus 40K plus), b) your commissioned employee is going to make really good money for a part time job which is exactly what you want, c) they use their own vehicle, d) with a Cimex you don't have security issues with open doors late at night AND e) the high production level means you can be extremely competitive on bidding and still make a high profit per employee hour.

BTW, Jeff Cutshall (who does almost exclusively commercial carpet cleaning) just recently posted on how encapping with the Cimex has transformed his business:

http://sfs.jondon.com/5378/blog/encapsu ... my-company

Mike, Jeff Cutshall and I are putting the final touches on what I think is going to be a ground-breaking Report on how to implement the above business scenario. When we release Jeff's encapping Report (with the supporting forms and procedures it will run 40 pages or so) I would normally post the link here but then I would raise the ire of your local BB police who are happy with the status quo and feel threatened when anyone or anything threatens to disturb the world as they see it! :)

Oh well, as I always say "Every individual is as successful as he or she wants and deserves to be." But I always temper that by including, "Never let anyone determine your definition of personal success."

Sorry to drag on, Mike. But you did ask! :)

Respectfully submitted,

Steve Toburen
http://www.SFS.JonDon.com

PS Mike, I'm delighted you have discovered the joys of rotary extraction. You'll recall I made one of my few comments about methods when I made an impassioned appeal in favor of rotary extraction at SFS. In my company I INSISTED on using rotary extraction on all open areas of every residential job with padded saxony carpets. (I found that rotary extraction didn't do well for us on low pile, direct glue down. Too hard to get a good "vacuum seal" for extraction plus too much pile distortion that was a bear to remove. But that is just me.)
 

Desk Jockey

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You know it is never going to be good when you see your name in lights on Mikeysboard when you sit down at your computer at 6 in the morning.
"Toburanex" is your name? :shock:

I think Encapsulation is great, it's opened up doors to commercial cleaning that we not able to get in. We just couldn't compete on price, and encapsulation allows us to do that. Is it everything it's hyped to be? Well it can be if used in combination with HWE and OP as part of a maintenance system.

I think we did over $5,000.00 worth of cleaning last week with Cimex and Orbots. Customers were thrilled, carpet looked great....better than when we used HWE and we made over 70% profit margin on those jobs.

Is it the end all to beat all, no but is another option, one that everyone can win on.

Steve was pushing WDR at SFS the last two times I went, but I think Jeff Cutshall was building his business with Encapsulation at the time.

Now several years later, Jeff's company is doing very well with Encapsulation and Steve has seen that and is now promoting it for other cleaners to benefit.

Jeff helped us years ago by letting Dan and I go on one of his job sites and showed us what he was doing. He's a great guy and willing to help and share information freely.
 

Mikey P

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(Mike, how can I say respectfully that your business model is a bit ADD- with your cleaning methods/equipment swinging wildly based on your current flavor of the month? You know, I can't say it nice so I won't.)


yeah well, I have a real hard time reading the IICRC CCT manual and following it like scripture..




PS, I used the Rotovac OG for a year pre glide.
 

Desk Jockey

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We have 4-Cimex's and 2-Orbots, both shine in different areas. I like the Orbot, it works great, you don't have the vibration like the older OP machines. It cleans well and has a modern look to it.

I do wish they made them with the large tanks like Big John's and Clark's machines,

but I suppose that would take away from the looks of it. For the most part the small tank is fine, a little snug changing jugs but not too bad. On larger jobs the bigger tank would keep you from having so many extra jugs. .
 

JeffC

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As Steve mentioned I think if you’re doing commercial you need to at least consider doing encapsulation. As I’ve always stated it doesn’t by any means replace HWE but it often times gives superior results, at least as far as appearance is concerned. (Which by the way is the main buying motivation of most of my customers.) I don’t in any way want to give the idea that my business model is the one that everyone needs to follow though. As Steve has often said, “everyone has their own definition of success”.

In addition to teaching for Jon-Don I sort of stumbled into encapsulation cleaning several years ago and I can truthfully say that buying the Cimex has been the best investment I’ve ever made. I now own 3 of them! (Now keep in mind I don’t have the latest Rotovac 360i yet. LOL) I did buy the original 360 though (which I sold and lost money on) but evidently the new one is much better. Time will tell.

My favorite cleaning method is the one that makes me the most money, fulfills a need that my customers have, allows me to be competitive and is easiest on my worn out body. HWE extraction for me is something that occasionally has to be done but isn’t usually my first choice unless I feel it’s absolutely necessary.

It’s funny I’ve been following the boards for years and have seen many trends (or “flavors of the month” as Steve calls them) come and go. I’ve made some of my best and unfortunately some of my worst investments from recommendations off the boards. The boards are certainly a great starting point but I’d say it’s best to investigate for yourself whether its equipment, methods, chemicals, classes, etc., or whatever, and not just take other’s word for it. (SFS or VAST would of course be the exception to this rule.) If you can take anything out for a test drive and honestly give it a workout that’s the best option.

Encapsulation and the Cimex machine have served me well though and I feel that especially in the larger facilities it’s hard to beat the results. The encapsulation report that Steve and I have been working on explores many angles of encapsulation cleaning, selling commercial accounts and setting up routes.
JeffC
JonDon VAST Coordinator
 

Desk Jockey

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We cleaned a Theater last week with Encapsulation, it was the third time we've cleaned it. Theaters are normally not what I would consider a target for us but when we had a marketing person, she stopped in and later they called for an estimate and here were are.

The first time we cleaned it we were so unsure of the ability of the Cimex we HWE the entry and traffic areas, it came out great.

So great they called us back last year and we used the OP in place of HWE. All the heavy traffic areas we hit with OP and the rest Cimex, again it looked great. This year we had added a few more Cimex's and combined with the OP, we breezed through the place.

Manager complimented us on how fast we finished and how great it looked and how some areas were almost dry already.

Dan was on the phone earlier with a Church/school 18,000 sq/ft that we Encap clean every year and they also mentioned how pleased they were with the results fro last week.

It's not for every application, but I have a hard time finding fault with it when everyone is so pleased with the results. 8)
 

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