I used prochem's procaps machine with releasit encap clean ds on glue down commercial low level loop. I hated the way it looked afterwards. I prevacuumed, mixed releasit at 4 oz/ gallon, and used procaps machine. the traffic areas had loops that appeared snagged in areas, mainly high traffic areas. I felt like crap! This was a very big client. Waiting to see what they say when they come in to work tomorrow.
Terrified!! My 1st encap job made carpet look worse!!!
- Thread starter hanks75
- Start date
Brian R
Member
Rut Roe
Keep us informed
Keep us informed
Mikey P
Administrator
IMO, Counter Rotating Brush Machines are not nearly heavy or aggressive enough to effectively "Encapsulate" (grind the dirt to the bottom of the carpet). If you had gone over the dirty areas with a cotton OP pad and your OP or 175 machine you'd have pulled it off.
Cimex is king in this court.
Cimex is king in this court.
TimP
Member
- Joined
- May 19, 2007
- Messages
- 4,055
tmdry said:
Another case of the supply house selling the customer something without knowing what they are talking about. It's a well known fact that the procaps isn't the best for cgd encaping. And no matter how much we tell cleaners they still go and buy from their snake oil salesmen.
Mikey P
Administrator
Supply house demo carpets are so loaded with soap that rubbing a Cottonelle butt whipe over one would make it look like new.
impacted CGDs need major artillery to break loose the scum not some lame over priced counter rotating Chia Pet on a stick.
impacted CGDs need major artillery to break loose the scum not some lame over priced counter rotating Chia Pet on a stick.
Walt
Member
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2007
- Messages
- 1,016
hanks75 said:
Chances are its going to look better when it drys. Not good but better.
However, Give them a call in the morning. Ask what they think. If they say it doesn't look good, tell them that's why you are calling. Come clean on it and tell them you'll take care of it right away. How you handle this can make a big impression on them.
OP and padcapping was made for CGD loop carpet.
I bet most of it will look better but the worse parts will be the high traffic areas......you can't clean wear and tear.
Use your TM and do these parts over again. They should come out really great now that you have "prescrubbed" them. A good rinse should make a big difference.
I bet most of it will look better but the worse parts will be the high traffic areas......you can't clean wear and tear.
Use your TM and do these parts over again. They should come out really great now that you have "prescrubbed" them. A good rinse should make a big difference.
encapman
Member
There are a few possibilities why the job didn't look perfect when you were done.
1. As mentioned above, the Procaps machine is a lightweight scrubber. It's OK - but not great. A Cimex, Scrub3, or Rotary with FiberPlus pads would do better. The brush bristles on a lightweight cylindrical machine aren't able to do a whole lot for a cruddy CGD carpet.
2. Spraying encap detergents onto the carpet does not work as well as feeding it through a solution tank. You get much better control and can easily adjust the amount of product when you are feathering the solution trigger on a shampoo tank. Encap is a variation of the shampoo method - using improved polymeric detergents. This method is not as effective when the detergent gets sprayed down.
3. You may not have applied enough detergent. Or you may not have applied it evenly (on account of what I just mentioned in 2 above). With encap cleaning you just want to apply enough detergent to see a light whitening on the surface of the carpet. With Encap-Clean DS it's easy to gauge how much you're applying, because the detergent will produce a light white layer on the surface of the carpet when you've applied the right amount. (Be careful to avoid over-applying the detergent - more is not better). It's important that you apply the solution evenly. Consistent application of the detergent can't be stressed enough - you really need even coverage.
4. Machine scrubbing technique can also factor into the results you're seeing. You generally want to make 2 or 3 passes in most cases (1 wet pass followed by 1 or 2 dry passes). On the dry passes you can apply just a touch more solution to keep the surface moist as you're scrubbing. Avoid over-wetting the carpet (generally speaking, you should average about 300 sq ft per gallon of mixed rtu solution). Depending on the soil conditions you'll want to make an extra scrubbing pass or two. Scrub slowly and evenly on your dry passes. And be sure to overlap your passes, so that your cleaning is performed evenly.
5. The carpet may be loaded with dry soil and crud at the backing of the fiber. To check for this, pry apart the tufts of fiber in the high traffic lanes and look down at the backing. Is it white? It should be white since latex backing is white. Or is it dark gray, or black? If the backing is loaded with soil, that means it has become impacted with soil. If the carpet has been neglected or if it receives insufficient dry soil management on a routine basis, the carpet can become loaded with soil down to the backing. If that's the case, it may require Pile Lifting, Deep HWE, followed with Encap Cleaning, and possibly some Post Bonneting. CGD carpets with deeply impacted soil can be a real pain to empty out, because the tightly compacted carpet tufts can lock the crud down at the base of the fiber, and it's next to impossible to dig/flush/clean it all out from the backing of the carpet. Heavily soil-impacted carpets can be a challenge to clean and wicking can occur too.
Hope this gives you some food for thought. Let us know how you make out with this one. And if you'd like to contact me directly my number is 800-330-1888 ext 301 or you can e-mail me at rick@excellent-supply.com Wishing you success! Doing good encap work is really not that difficult, but like anything it takes a little practice to become familiar with what you're doing. As you get the feel for encapping and become a bit more experienced, you'll find the process is simple and it can help you to hit the ball out of the park on CGD carpeting!
1. As mentioned above, the Procaps machine is a lightweight scrubber. It's OK - but not great. A Cimex, Scrub3, or Rotary with FiberPlus pads would do better. The brush bristles on a lightweight cylindrical machine aren't able to do a whole lot for a cruddy CGD carpet.
2. Spraying encap detergents onto the carpet does not work as well as feeding it through a solution tank. You get much better control and can easily adjust the amount of product when you are feathering the solution trigger on a shampoo tank. Encap is a variation of the shampoo method - using improved polymeric detergents. This method is not as effective when the detergent gets sprayed down.
3. You may not have applied enough detergent. Or you may not have applied it evenly (on account of what I just mentioned in 2 above). With encap cleaning you just want to apply enough detergent to see a light whitening on the surface of the carpet. With Encap-Clean DS it's easy to gauge how much you're applying, because the detergent will produce a light white layer on the surface of the carpet when you've applied the right amount. (Be careful to avoid over-applying the detergent - more is not better). It's important that you apply the solution evenly. Consistent application of the detergent can't be stressed enough - you really need even coverage.
4. Machine scrubbing technique can also factor into the results you're seeing. You generally want to make 2 or 3 passes in most cases (1 wet pass followed by 1 or 2 dry passes). On the dry passes you can apply just a touch more solution to keep the surface moist as you're scrubbing. Avoid over-wetting the carpet (generally speaking, you should average about 300 sq ft per gallon of mixed rtu solution). Depending on the soil conditions you'll want to make an extra scrubbing pass or two. Scrub slowly and evenly on your dry passes. And be sure to overlap your passes, so that your cleaning is performed evenly.
5. The carpet may be loaded with dry soil and crud at the backing of the fiber. To check for this, pry apart the tufts of fiber in the high traffic lanes and look down at the backing. Is it white? It should be white since latex backing is white. Or is it dark gray, or black? If the backing is loaded with soil, that means it has become impacted with soil. If the carpet has been neglected or if it receives insufficient dry soil management on a routine basis, the carpet can become loaded with soil down to the backing. If that's the case, it may require Pile Lifting, Deep HWE, followed with Encap Cleaning, and possibly some Post Bonneting. CGD carpets with deeply impacted soil can be a real pain to empty out, because the tightly compacted carpet tufts can lock the crud down at the base of the fiber, and it's next to impossible to dig/flush/clean it all out from the backing of the carpet. Heavily soil-impacted carpets can be a challenge to clean and wicking can occur too.
Hope this gives you some food for thought. Let us know how you make out with this one. And if you'd like to contact me directly my number is 800-330-1888 ext 301 or you can e-mail me at rick@excellent-supply.com Wishing you success! Doing good encap work is really not that difficult, but like anything it takes a little practice to become familiar with what you're doing. As you get the feel for encapping and become a bit more experienced, you'll find the process is simple and it can help you to hit the ball out of the park on CGD carpeting!
The sad part is that this carpet reall wasn't all that dirty to begin with. I mean it really looked clean from the start. Now that i've been there, from a distance it looks like i've created dirty lintballs in areas. Upon close inspection u can see that loop have been tugged out of place. it makes it look like a real hack job. like a really bad haircut.
encapman
Member
WEIRD!hanks75 said:
Cylindrical brush machines are generally thought to be safe for the carpet. In fact the mills in Dalton are in love with them. To tug the carpet loops out of place using a properly functioning CRB machine is hard to imagine. If that occurred there's either a problem with the machine, or something's wrong with the carpet.
Cimex also grinds in the dirt causing it to fall to the bottom of the pile rendering it "Invisible".
But the dirt is still there just waiting in the shadows to someday reappear with vengence demanding you ACTUALLY CLEAN it with HWE.
But the dirt is still there just waiting in the shadows to someday reappear with vengence demanding you ACTUALLY CLEAN it with HWE.
lust1kiddo
Supportive Member
I used the procaps machine also..not really a big fan at all. The people loved it but it just didnt clean that well to me. YOu can probably sweep a broom over some carpets and people will be like WOWSERS..but as a cleaner, you know when it could have been done better. Thats why I feel your pain. The heavy traffic areas in the building I did, I had someone go with a scrub brush and clean them up by hand. It was just a small area in front of the elevator. But personally, I am not a fan of that machine. its for super super light duty.
rwcarpet
Supportive Member
I use mine for pre-scrubing traffic areas. It is not a stand-alone machine for encapping, IMO. I have used a Cimex on pretty filthy carpet, and made it look a hell of a lot better. If used properly, padding is probably the best in overall appearance.
I spoke with my contact person and she love. She thought we did a great job. Maybe God intervened overnight because I sure did pray about it. It was a client with a lot of referral potential and I wanted to slam dunk it. According to her, I did. We take each job personal because we're a young company that believes that our first impression is our only impression, so we're very critical of our work. Maybe a little too critical at times.
Desk Jockey
Member
That's the best attitude to have no matter what size your business is.
Glad to hear it worked out!
M
Mark Imbesi
Guest
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Brian R
Member
Pics?
tim
Member
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2007
- Messages
- 544
Sounds like you dodged a bullet, now invest in a cimex or at least a good OP. I just bought my third cimex from Rick to clean 125k square feet. I thought most encap solutions performed about the same but we had some tar and asphalt tracked in by roofers and only Releasit took it out. The maitenance manager was thrilled and wants it done multiple times a year. Encap works with the right equipment
