The Most Useful Thing You Learned about Chemistry

[Jim Pemberton]

I'm working on some ideas with some other instructors regarding what you really both retain and need to know about cleaning products, procedures, and related chemistry.

Forgetting test questions, which of these were or are the most important to you:

What is in the products that you use (surfactants, solvents, reducers, oxidizers, enzymes, etc)?

What these aforementioned products do?

How to use such products effectively and safely?

To my main point: Do you really need to know the indepth chemistry of the products, or just what to use and how to use it? Other than dangers to you and the textile, including what products interact badly with one another, how much chemistry do you wish to be taught?

Marty: After all your years on the boards and your "boredom" in a class, what would actually pique your interest in a class on carpet or upholstery cleaning?

 

[Desk Jockey]

I don't thing we need to go through the periodic table of elements and how to add atomic weights but some very basic chemistry should be a part of instruction.

Solvents and and polar solvent ( ) , oxidizers and reducers.

Yea, light on the background stuff and more on the practical everyday use.



Marty's brain was filled in college, no room for anything else now! :wink:

 

[Bob Foster]

Marty just wants to know when lunch is and how long he has to stay.

The functional difference between an oxidizer and a reducer
What natural fibers don't like
pH doesn't stand for Pretty Hot but some times it is
the "ates" and "ides"
the sinking in agents, the brightening agents, the sticking around agents, the stabilizing agents
cationics anionics and the irony of Marty
Old Yeller was a movie about a dog that died but it can happen to you too - both the dead thing and the yellow thing
the color wheel (?)

MSDS stands for Marty Says Dumb Stuff and how do you correctly read a material safety data sheet

I almost for got one. Why you need a roach clip and a lighter in your truck.

 

[Jimmy L]

.

 

[Art Kelley]

I'd like to know the shelf life of products and the effects of very hot and freezing temperatures on their storage. Can ammonia or peroxide survive for 10 or more years stored in my garage like some of the products have i.e. powdered detergents, rust removers disinfects etc.

 

[truckmount girl]

I really enjoyed the chemistry part of my classes, though it was very lacking, and really would have liked the whole advanced cleaning chemistry show. However, I think advanced cleaning chemistry should be offered as a separate class for nerds like me.

take care,
Lisa

 

[Jim Pemberton]

Lisa

That's part of our line of thinking. In the 70's-early 90's most class attendees were owner operators. Today most are employees. That difference is not just one of education (though some younger employees may be more "educated" than "self made" old timers), but also frankly of committed interest in aspects of the job that aren't as important to the day to day worker.

On line training, advanced classes, etc. could take care of this need.

How chemistry has been taught has evolved a great deal, and with the publication of the latest S100 Standards should take another signficant step forward.

 

[steve g]

how to make stain magic was the most important, specifically combining a peroxide agent, be it 30 volume or powdered form with ammonia or high Ph product, to accomplish different things. the thing about that is there is no other product out there to do it.

 

[Jim Williams]

I would say The PH stuff is very important. How to bring something to neutral to rinse it out.

Also learning that solvents work on oil based spots and water based spot removers for water based as well as the difference between oxidizers and reducers.

To tell you the truth, I haven't thought about the cationic and ionic stuff in 6 years.

Keep it simple. If I was training a tech I wouldn't want to clutter thier brain too much.

 

[hogjowl]

I don't give a flying rats ass what's in a product. That's just mental masturbation in my book. Feels good but does nothing productive for the person.

What I want to know is what SPECIFIC products work for different stains and soils.

I don't give a flying fRETk if it's a reducer or an oxidizer. I want to know to use product A in this situation and product B in the other.

Don't be another Larry Cobb.

Teach the class specifically around the chemicals you carry and recommend, and if other manufacturers get mad, then let them teach the class the next time.

 

[Ron Werner]

while mentioning specific products can be helpful in the immediate, long term I think its a waste of time.
Teaching how to tell "what" a product is, how it should be used, what it will react with, what is its purpose, what are the dangers.
Then we can ask intelligent questions of distributors as to the line of solns they carry and we can compare apples to apples.

Sometimes knowing what NOT to do with something is more important than knowing what CAN be done with a it. Its one thing to leave a stain, its another to create a cloud of noxious fumes that clears the house, or worse.

 

[daniel@procarpet]

while mentioning specific products can be helpful in the immediate, long term I think its a waste of time.
Teaching how to tell "what" a product is, how it should be used, what it will react with, what is its purpose, what are the dangers.
Then we can ask intelligent questions of distributors as to the line of solns they carry and we can compare apples to apples.

Sometimes knowing what NOT to do with something is more important than knowing what CAN be done with a it. Its one thing to leave a stain, its another to create a cloud of noxious fumes that clears the house, or worse.

Ron you are right. Some carpet cleaner in Houston cleaned my cousins wtw wool carpet and it turned brown. She said they used dirty water and I told her no it just browned out from using the wrong cleaning solutions. I told her to call me and I would find her a cleaner that was good and reasonable next time she needed cleaning.

 

[hogjowl]

You don't need to be a chemist in this business.

But you do need to be able to read a label.

 

[daniel@procarpet]

You don't need to be a chemist in this business.

But you do need to be able to read a label.

Yes and be sure to read the whole label even if you think you are sure of the product you are uisng. I used some orange booster that specifally said do not mix with oxidizers. Well I mixed it with odor rescue and I started feeling sick.

 

[Ron Werner]

you don't need to KNOW chemistry, but it sure helps when you UNDERSTAND it, and KNOW what it is you are carrying on your truck

 

[Hoody]

You don't need to be a chemist in this business.

But you do need to be able to read a label.

Well said porkchop.

 

[dgargan]

I'm with Marty. I don't clean much anymore and teaching my guys chemistry is fruitless. I want to be able to tell them to use this on that stain and use that on this stain.

David

 

[Jim Pemberton]

About 75% of my "how to take a stain out/how to use a product" calls and emails are solved by reading the label.

I discuss that in class. Small print on pint bottle does force most of us 40+ folks to put on reading glasses to do it, but its worth the effort.

 

[Zee]

Then we can ask intelligent questions of distributors as to the line of solns they carry and we can compare apples to apples.

yeah....like they would know the answer. Your average distributor have often no clue what they are selling.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

A related thought: MSDS

Each of us should have a yellow binder near the driver's seat in our truck with MSD info on each product that may be on our truck. When you get a new product, make sure you have a page for it in the binder.

MSD info may be printed on the bottle, but you still need a sheet in the binder.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Along with Lee's post you'll need a master copy of all your MSDS sheets in a designated spot at your office, near a phone so you can reference it in an emergency.

While we've been luck to never have an emergency where we've needed them, we have been asked by corporate accounts to fax over MSDS sheets for their file.

It's all a part of your HAZCOM compliance.

 

[Carpet Cleaning Fool]

Don't be another Larry Cobb..

I don't get it dude. What is that supposed to mean? Nothing wrong with Larry Cobb!!! I just placed another order with him yesterday.

Do you know something that works better? At any price...

Oh, the most useful thing i learned about chemistry is not to mix amonia and somthing else. Can't remember what else though... :wink: