Thermal Wave Owners - Getting More Heat

[Mike Brummett]

I have owned my Thermal Wave HP for about 14 months now and I am very happy with it, overall.

The only thing that I am not real happy with is the heat. I get about 180-190 at the machine on average while cleaning carpet. I use 4 -01 jets on my wand. Pressure is set around 500 . I switched down from the 1.5 jets to see if it would improve the heat and it did help, but nothing to write home about. I also put insulation around the exhaust HX.
The thing will heat up to 230-240 and hold it real good until you start triggering the wand. Then it averages, as I said, 180-190.

Yesterday on a job I set the throttle switch to "dual-wand" and this made a big difference. (Even though we were just using one wand) Temp gauge stayed right around 220-230 on average while cleaning.

Aside from burning more gas, I doubt that this has any kind of ill affect on the unit, so I am going to continue to run it like that. At least on the really dirty ones. Kicks up the vacuum really nice too.

I would like to hear from other Thermal Wave owners on what your experience has been regarding heat issues. If you have any tips or advice, please share them.

Thanks!

MIKE

 

[Greenie]

" Yesterday on a job I set the throttle switch to "dual-wand" and this made a big difference. (Even though we were just using one wand) Temp gage stayed right around 220-230 on average while cleaning. "

Single wand, dual wand is a mental exercise, the machine doesn't know any better, it's just fuel consumption, Keep it on dual for carpet cleaning, it's all about BTUs and CFMs, why on earth you would buy a #5 blower machine and run it like a #4 blower escapes me. You want heat you got to burn some juice!

You are using BOTH vac ports right? or are you treating it like a #4 again?

 

[adamh]

I am sorry, but who in the world would buy a machine and not run it at full strength is beyond me. Of course if you run it at full power you will get more power and heat.

 

[Guest]

be nice with Mike or he will not grace us with his presence!


Chad

 

[jethro]

Mike I run my thermalwave on dual wand while single wanding all the time to get more heat and vac.I also set the lift to 16 inches. Mine in the winter will start out around 230+ and drop to 200. I use 09 jets at 550 psi so it is high flow and really sucks the heat out of the HX but 200 with high flow is ALOT of heat going into the carpet. I am thinking about placing a little giant#2 in the van for higher heat but summer is almost here and I have no problems with heat then. I did expect more heat from the unit but it was still a very good purchase.It should last a long time.

 

[danpauselius]

I've had my Thermal Wave 5M for about 6 months now and have no complaints about heat. And yeah, I run it on single wand unless I have a really long hose run.

 

[Mike Brummett]

Hey, while the unit was under warranty, I wasn't gonna do ANYTHING different than use it in accordance with the indicated instructions. I am apprehensive to raise the term "void the warrany" as all of us are sick of hearing it (completely different topic) but you know what I'm saying.

But you are absolutely right, why not run it wide open and get better heat, vacuum and results.

Now that it's no longer going to create potential warranty issues, I will tweak it a bit. Maybe try a kunkle and some 2.5 inch hose.

I just wish I knew SOMEONE who sold such things. :wink:

MIKE

 

[Alfred Montaner]

I run my thermalwave on "upholstery" you mean thats not giving me my thermalwaves maximum potential? Take of your skirt baldy be a man and run that thermalwave like an illegal running from Sally. Im gonna have to man you up a bit at the next fest.

 

[Larry Cobb]

Mike;

You need to go back to larger jets.

The temperature will drop some, but the heat exchanger will transfer more net heat to the carpet due to the higher GPM.

Larry Cobb
Mikey Board Supporting Member

 

[RLitwin]

I put 4000hrs on my Thermalwave. The only time that it dropped below 200 was cleaning tile. I cleaned most of the time on the upholstery setting with the temp set to 200 and it stayed right stayed right at 200 - Blueline wand or RDM. I always got really good dry times and 190-210 is all that I need most of the time.

I cleaned on all three settings and got the same dry times. There is a lot more vacuum and heat available on the dual wand setting. I just didn't see any benefit in using it.

My ThermalWave was the early style, not the one with the blower exchanger.

 

[Mike Brummett]

Rob,
Mine is also the "older" style. No blower exhaust HX.

Maybe the fact that you are in Arizona and I am in Kansas has something to do with it.

Thanks to everyone for the feedback.

MIKE

 

[Greenie]

Rob, Did you just say you used Upholstery mode for carpet?

Mike, not that it's a big deal but how would cleaning in "dual wand" mode compromise warranty? Or are you just pokin' fun?

Also "why not run it wide open and get better heat, vacuum and results."
Just for the record, dual wand ain't nowhere near wide open, there is fudge factor.

If you are single wanding with that #5 blower you don't need a kunkle, just tighten the spring a bit, and always use a glide, the hose run will be the magic bullet for improvement, that and a Y so you are using both ports.

I always just assumed everyone "cranked up" their units to max. operating speed for more suck and heat, I've learned a tech support lesson from this thread, next time a guy calls up with a heat or vac question, I'm gonna ask what setting are you running it in.

 

[Steve Lombardi]

The blueline thermal wave has about a 30 degree rise in temp. between single wand and duel wand settings. The RPMS on the machine at high speed is 2400 and it is driving the pump at its maximum speed.

 

[RLitwin]

Yes, the upholstery setting to clean carpet most of the time.

I thought that the ThermalWave was over kill for single wanding. I thought that I would do a lot of dual wanding, I didn't find it any faster on small-medium residential jobs, so I stopped dual wanding. I would get the same dry times on any of the settings. There was more heat on the faster settings, but I kept the temp set to 200 anyway.

That is why I now have a Boxxer 421.

 

[Matt King]

Steve, what pump is running at full speed? The Blueline website specifically states that the blower is running at 2400rpm on the High setting. Which is fine. That's a little over 80% but it's not full speed which is 2850. I'm confused as to where the 525cfm figure comes from? Looking at the specs for the Sutorbilt 5M@2400rpm it seems there would be about 375-400 cfm produced at 14hg. Don't take this as knocking Blueline because my comfort zone for blower speed is 75-80% as well. I know others like to run them faster and that's cool too... Either way, take a look at Sutorbilt specs. http://www.gardnerdenverproducts.com/up ... Brand_(148)/PDF_Folder/Blower_Vacuum/PD_Blower_PDF/PD-SB-L_1st_12-06.pdf

 

[The Magician]

One of the complaints from a dist. The Blueline takes to long to heat up and don't get too good of heat. Other wise a very good machine,
Good question Matt. Are we seeing Manufacturer over inflating the cfm numbers to please the cleaners wants. how do you explain the Pro Chem 650 getting 650 cfm with the same blower?

 

[Matt King]

Those numbers don't take into account plumbing restrictions either. Now I know everything on paper may not be exact in 'real world' conditions. In Prochems defense, I think they're using some other larger tri-lobe unit. I may be wrong? Either way, you're on the money here.. I've probably seen a half dozen different cfm numbers quoted for the 56 or 5M units over the years. All ranging from 500-650/675 cfm. Maybe there's a logical explanation for these variations but I just don't see it? Maybe somebody else will chime in here...

 

[Greenie]

...or maybe we could have some truth in advertising and the Mfgs. could actually put a CFM meter on the unit on 100' of hose?

...or we could demand that all units be tested for heat At The Wand with an 06 flow 100% duty cycle?

PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT: We are looking for a CFM meter for MikeyFest!

Where is Larry Cobb when you need him.

 

[Steve Lombardi]

Matt, I was talking about the rpms of the cat pump not the blower

 

[RLitwin]

Mike

Has it always been below 200 degrees on single wand. Mine would get those temp when it was in full divert mode(temp turn all the way down). I really don't think that me being in Arizona would change the temp that much. I clean in temperatures from 40-120 degrees and it doesn't change my output temp that I can tell.

 

[Larry Cobb]

Greenie;

I've got the CFM meter, but where is the TM that can show me 500 CFM with 2 wands on the carpet ???

I've been playing lately with 38 HP and a #56 blower running at a full 2850 RPM and I don't see anywhere near 500 CFM with 2 wands on the carpet.

I guess I need a modified CFM meter. :roll:

Larry Cobb

 

[Guest]

Mike B., as you know I have the Bluewave. The past month or so our average temperature has been about 55 degrees. When I start in the mornings a lot of times its been in the mid to high 30's. I know its crazy but we've actually had ice on our windows.

My temp. ATM has not dropped one bit during the winter. When I'm single wanding (my only option) at about 500 psi the temp. is between 230 and 240. In the summer it was exactly the same. In winter it takes longer to warm up but that's about it.

Are you sure there's not something wrong with your machine???

 

[steve g]

man that sucks my little bridgepoint saber will run 180 with a 6 total jet and 450psi I would be pissed if i paid all that cash for a machine that large that will not pump it out better than my puny little machine. of course my machine will also hit 245 or so if I set the wand down breifly.

I don't care what anyone says once they got away from the old school catalytic HX the machines just simply cannot run as hot, I have heard constant complaints that machines like the everest run cooler than the old 405 did. the catalytic setup just adds a lot more complication and safe guarding to the system that is undesireable to many. powercleans genesis gives more performance at 2k less than the competition.

 

[Mike Brummett]

40 to 120 degrees is a LOT different than 10 to 90 degrees. Bring your's out to Kansas sometime in January and we'll see how it does.

The Blue Wave is definitely a HOTTER machine than the Thermal Wave, hands down. I used a lie detector on a new one and it held something like 205 at the wand for 5 minutes of spraying continuously. I can't remember for sure if it was a 50 or 100 ft line. And please don't ask me for all the minutia on orifice size, psi, etc. I don't remember.

Hey, I wanted a unit that was the biggest I could get and one that had a proven track record of reliability. It was also important for me to do business with a LOCAL distributor that was CLOSE. If he distributed Powerclean, I probably would have bought one, but he doesn't.

I learned the hard way about buying a unit from far away. Never again.

For you spec checkers, mine is the HP model with the Cat 5 CP pump.

Thermal Wave is a FANTASTIC machine. Over the last 14 months, I have had ZERO problems with it. A couple of minor issues with the APO that were covered under the warranty and that's it.

I can set it on dual wand, run 2-2 in. hoses and have carpets dry in one hour when necessary. It get's rid of the dirt, and as far as I'm concerned the temp issue is just a number, but if it is possible to improve it a bit, I want to.

MIKE

 

[Jimbo]

Hey Mike...I think you should reconsider the kunkle option...not for increased vac...but the the slight additional load the engine is under produces more usable heat. I saw about 12 to 15 degrees increase on my unit with a nissan engine.- Jim

 

[Alfred Montaner]

Baldy,

Have you been able to finally get a helper that can stand you over one week?

 

[Greenie]

"minutia on orifice size, psi, etc"

not to kick a horse, but that is some pretty important minutia!

I guaranfrickentee you I could have a TW putting out 250 all day long, it's just time and money.

 

[Glynn]

Greenie
Simons Maxx470 puts out 220 to TWO RX20's at the same time at 600 -700 ft total dual line lenghts and diverts ! and thats in cold england now.
I saw it last week cleaning cruise ships. The vac is also still screaming at these lengths.

 

[Mike Brummett]

The Maxx units put out more steady consistent heat than any other HX unit that I have put the lie detector on.

MIKE

 

[steve frasier]

I would agree with the comments about the MAXX units. I owned a 450 and know some one with a 470. They can kick out some consistent heat. I use to always run my MAXX in the slower mode and still had 220 heat

I have the Thermal Wave II, it will keep 220 to 230 with 06 flow. Have used it in Dual mode 90 percent of the time. Not enough heat at single wand mode

my home made 2" Y has not seem to increase or decrease the temp but has decreased dry times

I will bump it up to 16" and see what happens

Couple of things that might help are

when you are not wanding, make sure the wand stays in contact with the carpet so the stress continues on the blower and so it can't suck colder air

warm it up to at least 220, it only takes about 10 minutes


The think in the end that the Thermal Wave will be more dependable then the MAXX and it rarely bypasses water to cool itself down, I will trade this for the loss in heat and not having to buy the MAXX air horn to keep the heat

The other day I cleaned for 3 straight hours without filling the waste tank, could never had done that with the the water bypassing BOXXER and MAXX