VAT owners have you taken your truck over a weigh scale?

[Bob Foster]

Maybe you have to do that on a regular basis but lets hear the revealing information. On your door edge is listed maximum weight your truck is designed to take.

Be honest, is it close to the maximum or over?

If its over, blame the people that built it and keep some spare money for brakes, axle bearings etc.

 

[Jim Martin]

Re: VAT owners have you taken your truck over a weigh scale

Mine says the max is 12,000

I have never had to put it on a scale I am not required....even driving it all the way from MN I never once stopped for a scale...

Fully loaded I don't know what the weight is but with all the tanks full and all the crap I carry..I have never seen the rear end squat down or come close to the over load springs.......

 

[gasaxe]

12500 to 14000 depending on water. all that hydraulic crap is heavy!!!! dont remember what the gwr is i think its 14000 on the bering. for sho the biggest drawback to a v or at. the motors are solid for a cleaning unit but they aint fo shat for hauling around 14000 pounds...specially in the hills.

 

[Bob Foster]

That UD must have been the cheapest cab over they could buy.

Not enough GVW
Not enough HP
Not the right transmission
Crappy use of space in the van body because of a crappy carpet cleaning drive design


The VAT have served those that need them well but I'm sure Mr. Bruders can do a hell of a lot better than that. And I don't mean stuffing a better truck under the existing Vortex design. If I was Mr. Bruder, I would start with a clean sheet of paper. A top quality high volume big truck does not have to be complicated to deliver outstanding performance and reliability.

 

[Dolly Llama]

the motors are solid for a cleaning unit but they aint fo shat for hauling around 14000 pounds...specially in the hills.

Zero to 50 in 27 seconds ain't exactly break neck acceleration either, is it...


Didn't Adam mention once a stock V weighed around 10,500?

..L.T.A.

 

[dealtimeman]

my v loaded with about 300 gallons and all equipment is about 12500-13000 and i think i get ok gas mileage. on hills it is another story. if you have a city dump around where you operate you can zip through there scales for free.

 

[Jim Martin]

I guess some of you just aren't tuning yours right.....

I get 15 to 16 mpg (that includes running the machine )
just about the same as the Chevy with the CDS

I would really have to be pressing it to over load this thing.....

I am not blowing threw breaks.they are holding there own pretty well

Its not the best hill climber..but the Chevy wasn't either...

when you/we deciding to buy one and was walking around it looking for the Corvette emblem and it was not there then you were at the wrong place.......

the thing does drive like a log wagon when the tanks get low..but one should of expected it when you bought it.........

 

[dealtimeman]

i for one am very impressed by the quality and overall service the truck provides me and i have room to talk my v has 185000 ( speedometer cable was brok for a while) and is ten years old and just keep on moving. my buddies vans are always breaking down or causing one problem or another. i also need the room my heavy ass truck has and thats by itself is what justifys it for me. i can fit 8 dehu's and 2 ariscrubbers and about 30 fans if i pack it wall to wall.

 

[Bob Foster]

I think the people who when out and bought some of the VATs made in the last few years probably got a very good truck compared to what was is currently on the market. In other works, the got the best available.

The future holds promise for a manufacturer who sincerely listens more to the end users and less to the engineers about.

Easy of use and maintenance
Overall lower cost of operation
Scalability to different types of operations
Versatile use of space
High performance
Quietness

Take a hybrid of what Butler is doing with their box van, a powerful self powered slide in style unit and the finish quality of a Vortex and there in lies the future of a well respected carpet cleaning van.

Really it would be easy for someone to come up with a better carpet cleaning van but it takes someone with vision and understands the value in listening to us.

 

[Bob Foster]

Half the problem with operators of VATs is they think they can treat them like a 3/4 ton cargo van both in the way they maintain them (as in not) and the way they drive them(with a heavy foot on the throttle and brake).

If they knew how to take care of them, many of the problems such as bad tranny and breaks would not be as prevalent. The problem is the truck is too light duty for this use.

 

[dealtimeman]

i agree with you bob on that some vat owners think they dont have to maintain them and in the what and how they expect their big truck to drive. i liked it when i had my econoline with a 5.4l v8. i liked to go faster than 70 when i needed but when i got bigger and bigger water damages it just would not cut it with so limited space. i would have to have another van just to bring equipment. i also liked how quite the van was. i also liked not bouncing up and down so much, but when i look at the quality of work that i can now provide at a faster rate with the v, those are litlle luxurys compared to the big basic gains i have with the v. i in the future would like to try out one of those genises 59. if they are as strong and good as they say it would be a very nice truckmount to put in an extended sprinter with a highroof and dual side sliding doors, but again this truck would be very costly so i am not sure it would be suited for me.

 

[Bob Foster]

I wouldn't buy a Sprinter. It's over priced and very expensive to repair. You would be better with a small box cab over truck because it is more versatile, cheaper to run and less expensive to buy and maintain.

 

[dealtimeman]

so i ask you what do you think is expensive to maintain on a v? or whatdo you believe is so expensive to run or operate on a vat?

 

[Bob Foster]

The fuel consumption is not the issue. Heavier chassis vehicles require significantly more maintenance when heavy laden to their GVW. Brakes, tires, front end parts, steering box, u-joints, steady bearings etc.

The drive system of the cleaning plant and the exhaust diverter cause a significant cost.

The truck is short 3000 gvw, 30 or more horsepower and a gear in the transmission. The final drive on the rear end is too long on the UD and it needs an extra gear.

Without even looking at the specs on the UD and from what I see of the lay out and common complaints they have absolutely maxed out the front axle weight capacity. This has been amplified by the surface effect of the water in the supply tank and waste tank even if they are baffled the weight is still dynamically overloading the front end.

I believe the Isuzu has a higher GVW both front and rear to deal with problems related to weigh load. But like I said the truck needs to be redesigned from the inside out.

 

[gasaxe]

i agree with you on the weight issues of the truck. 170 hp is not near enough to adequately motivate 14k around. there are parts of town that if i get hung by a red light ive got everybody behind me cussing cause its all i can do to maintain 30-35 up a slight uphill section of road. you are constantly driving around with the pedal on the floor and still not maintaining the speed limit.
Prior to the v i had a tandem trailer with a 80hp johndeer with a 68 roots on it. 250 gal waste tank no fresh tank and minimal supporting goods. it weighed 7k with a half load of crap water. I drug it around with 7.3L powerstroke which weighs about 7500lbs. I could run any hill any speed. Had 4 wheel disk brakes on the truck that had no problem stopping the trailer even though the trailer had brakes on all 4 wheels. tires were cheap 4 the trailer and not to bad for the truck. I only had to replace the front brakes on the truck twice and the trailer about every 1.5 to 2years. I still have the truck.
Prior to the truck i had a similiar unit only difference being the engine on the unit was a 65 hp wisconsin, in a extended dodge van. It had a 360 in it and would haul the mail. It went through brakes pretty regular and had to have front coil springs in front replaced and add a leaf put in the rear after about 4 years of use.

My thoughts are that when you start trying to build around a true #6 frame pump the overall weight of the supporting components becomes a problem.
I love the extra room in the v and the layout and accesibility are nice. The only complaint i have is the lack of power for driving. If they could put a system on a powerstroke, cummins, or duramax chassis then that would be the way to go. The bigger engine would not have to turn much rpm at all to power the unit. It would get excellent fuel economy even with the overall weight of the system. Plus a f450-550 style chassis would more than handle the weight and they have the brake capacity to boot.

 

[dealtimeman]

i am not going to pretend i am an engineer but there is a reason for building it on the ud platform from the beginning. But i guess no one even blueline, AT or any other manufactuer has tried or tested building a big truck on another platform other than isuzu and beiring and mitsu and from what i hear from operator they hav whole bunch of issues i would hate to deal with. i do think it is weired that the ud platform has not had a big change to it for a long time.