Von Schrader - opinions

[Ron Werner]

They are marketing The Von Schrader Air Cell Extraction™ System with Encapsulation.

Just had a cleaner email me that was on my site and saw my comments about portables being less effective than TM's, he was referring to the porties that have a Gold/Plat SOA rating. I gave him my opinion of what I think of the SOA :roll:

But it got me looking at his website where he promotes Von Schrader over HWE.
( http://www.naturalcleaningsystems.ca/index.htm )
That took me to the VS site ( http://www.vonschrader.com/index.php ) They have some interesting new machines I wasn't aware of, one for cleaning walls and ceilings. The "Air Cell" terminology I thought was very creative.

We all defend our methods/marketing/systems. Seems to just go back and forth.

 

[rwcarpet]

When I hear Von Schrader, I think of "shampoo", and sticky residue.

I would hope they have improved their technology.

 

[glenboy]

i used to do tons of upholstery back in the day with a VS rotary head uph cleaner and we used red blue label and haitian cotton liquid for the grungies.that process and a spray bottle full of a good uph pre treat and it was kick ass

 

[Ron Werner]

they don't seem to think it leaves a sticky residue, bragging on their website about well known organizations, hotels etc, using their system.
Would it be much different than many of the new encap solutions?
The one thing it does differently is vacuum the excess foam. Padders will absorb the excess with a pad.

 

[juniorc82]

Maybe he will upgrade to a bane clene and go home and watch three's company. Sometimes the oldtimers just wont let it go and aknowledge there is a better way. I did a pizza hut last night that would have destroyed that von schrader machine and all its chicken shit endorsements I actualy own an old vs machine I traded an old timer my brokedown recoil porty for. It does work pretty well aggitating area rugs in the garage. I think if you could get the thing to go 80 mph you could go back in time and save dad from getting his ass kicked by biff , and hang out with dock

 

[Opie Cleaner]

VS is a good machine for what it is. I started with VS, even went to their school, nice people and a good experience.

Like everything it has limitations. Would be good for someone who only needed 2 jobs a day and didn't want the expense or hassle of a TM or porty. I use mine now for rugs in my shop or in homes where they don't want rugs leaving.

I used to heat the water with a bucket heater and used Just rite chems, got very good results for up to moderately soiled and could get ok results with heavily soiled using a pre spray and scrubbing with VS made it better.

Here's a site for anyone using VS who'd like better chems www.foamerscorner.com and http://www.foamerscorner.com/tips.html#TopPage for anyone looking for tips to maximize their VS results. Bill Barnes is a great guy to talk with too.

Air cell seems like a bit of a stretch but it's just marketing.

 

[Dolly Llama]

Von Schrader - opinions

well built machines
inefficient to use compared to nearly all other methods/equipment
old school method technology (very few still shampoo residential carpets for good reasons)
can't clean close up to walls/baseboards


in other words, a dinosaur with very limited real-world uses


..L.T.A.

 

[Jimmy L]

Bill Barnes and his Just Rite Shampoo products I believe were one of the first to advertise "Brittle drying" polymers in his shampoos.

Then along came the SCAMPOO makers who marketed the false statement "ENCAPSULATION"

Because we all know that once the product is diluted and sprayed out over an area there physically is not enough polymer to encapsulate anything.

But you can use these SHAMPOOS thru that Von Shrader.

 

[hogjowl]

Von Schrader - opinions

well built machines
inefficient to use compared to nearly all other methods/equipment
old school method technology (very few still shampoo residential carpets for good reasons)
can't clean close up to walls/baseboards


in other words, a dinosaur with very limited real-world uses


..L.T.A.

Larry ... this thread is about VS machines, not CCS machines.

You gotta keep up dude.

 

[Mardie]

VonSchrader dose not use SOAP or SHAMPOO.They use a synthetic detergent which is fed into a foam generator to create a foam. This foam can easily be mistaken to be a soap or shampoo because of the way it looks.VonSchrader has been using encapsulation as part of their detergent longer than most carpet cleaners have been cleaning carpet. The VonSchrader machine i use dose a lot more than pick up the exes foam,for example I do extensive prevacuuming with a very powerful 2 stage vacuum then i use a backpack vacuum with a 2 stage motor to do crevice tool work along all walls and door jams. Experience shows me that no matter how much i dry vacuum that it is impossible to remove all the debris from within the carpet and in trashed out carpet a dry vacuum seem to be a waste of time but still has to be done very slowly.The reason i know this is because when i take my machine over that carpet to clean it, then look at the bottom of my clear waste tank ( which my clients love) I always am amazed at how much debris was left behind with the vacuum. I was trying to get a job with this one client who has a lot of property and asked them that when they get a carpet that is in good condition but they know that it could never be cleaned to give me a try.About 6 weeks later i got a call to clean this 2 year old trashed out carpet. The dog made 2 trails through the living room from the dirt patio. The sand was so hard and packed down that i could not dig my finger to reach the base of the carpet. My vacuum was totally useless.@.65cents Sq. Ft. i had to work on it but had no problem at all to dig that out and clean the carpet. Any one using an old relic of a VonSchrader machine should not judge this system as it is today.All systems improve and change with the times. VonSchrader has been improving since 1935. I am always comparing my results with other systems and am always trying to improve. I am not a 1 method minded guy. At present i have been test driving a Cimex and find it will be very useful in the right situations. I believe Cimex is here to stay.
Mardie http://www.naturalcleaningsystems.ca

 

[Ron Werner]

Welcome Mardie

So that sand would not vacuum out?
What machine do you use that has a 2 stage vac?

 

[Mardie]

Hello Ron
I use a vacuum cleaner called the mighty mouth.The bags can be easily turned inside out to be cleaned and reused. If you are careful you can reuse the same bag many times. Very reliable.
http://www.atrix.com
The backpack i use is a sanitaire.The wand wont last so i buy a good one when it wears out.
The only people i mention how the rug doctor rates higher than most TM on the CRI site is TM operators LOL. I may not be a rocket scientist but i am not one to willingly stick my foot in my mouth.

Mardie

 

[hogjowl]

Welcome Mardie ... you have no idea how glad I am to see someone here posting under that name ... LOL ... it's interesting to hear from someone who can talk intelligently about an alternative system. We are used to padders and encapsulation zombies around here who have a Star Wars Fan mentality, so it's refreshing to find a guy using a VS system who doesn't sell Mary Kay on the side.

Over the years, I have kept up with my productions capabilities using the various different systems I use. For instance, I know I can average between 350 and 500 s.f. per hour doing residential carpet cleaning using my HWE/TM system, and average between 800 and 1200 s.f. per hour doing commercial cleaning with my pad machine. (One man and a TM)

Have you been able to calculate your average production rates in residential and commercial situations using VS?

 

[Mardie]

Hello Marty
Depends on the carpet and layout of the job site.Commercial 500-to 1000 sq.ft. per hr. by myself. I always like to bring a helper on commercial to mix and bring chemicals and do pre-spray. This makes the job very relaxing for me and i get to go for my smoke breaks LOL.When i do it with a helper the production rate is not much more at all.
Residential kills me because i spend most of my time vacuuming,proper pre-spray with dwell-time moving all furniture including beds.The actual machine work is the smallest part of the job about 10 sq ft. per. min. on not trashed out carpet but what would be considered normal dirty carpet with visible traffic lanes.

Mardie

 

[Desk Jockey]

Mardie don't talk to Marty, he is what we call in this country, a doofus.

Cimex is a nice tool to have as is an Orbot/OP machine and of course a TM.

I'm not not very familiar with VonSchrader, I've seen the name and the machine for decades but never seen one operate. I'm sure it must have some strengths or it would not have lasted for this many years. I'm not saying the system is antiquated but it does show some age. Their machines look clunky and awkward but I guess looks aren't everything. As long as it cleans well, that's what's important.

 

[Jimmy L]

Ifen it look like shampoo and foam lik a shampoo then by golly it iz a shampoo.

Shampoo is a dtergant too

some bottles of scampoo sez rite on dee lable it is SHAMPOO.

Dri foam shampoo

 

[Mardie]

Hello Jimmy
Look up the definition of shampoo and detergent in the dictionary.Shampoo is made up of animal and plant by products with a combination of man made chemistry. Detergent is a 100% man made chemistry. Their are many different kinds of foam that are used as cleaning agents that not even you would call shampoo,such as tire,oven and glass cleaner. VonSchrader detergents are 100% man made and do not leave the residues behind that would be associated with the shampoo family.. Soaps and shampoos can be very effective for cleaning but if not completely rinsed out after use will lead to premature resoiling due to the residues they leave behind,just the same as the majority of pre-sprays should be rinsed out due to the sticky residues they leave behind.

Mardie

 

[hogjowl]

Taco will let you talk to jImMy, but not me?

 

[Desk Jockey]

LOL ok Marty is not THAT bad. :mrgreen: