Von Schrader

[Ron Werner]

Been getting emails from this guy. Guess he read through my website and saw what I had to say about VS/encap methods. Is VS any different from encap?

Dear ron, you,re misinformed vonschrader is far superior to your outdated system, even vortex with that dumb powerhead doesnt compare to vs. Your system doesn't have a brush to agitate carpet. Your shampoos are no good rinsing the carpet is bad resoiling is fast- vs products are anti resoiling.

Hello Jerry

Don’t know where you got your info but it seems you are misinformed as to my methods. The soil emulsifier I’m using is VERY effective, I have a very effective dual brush scrubber , two versions actually, to agitate the carpet, and it is RINSED extremely well. More importantly, the carpet is very thoroughly dry vacuumed to remove as much dry particulate as possible prior to cleaning which is a step most cleaners take too lightly. By the time I’m finished, any fabric I’m cleaning has been thoroughly washed and rinsed and will have no resoiling due to residue and is as clean as its going to get.

I’m well aware of Vonshrader and encapsulating cleaning systems. They have been discussed at nauseum on Mikeysboard with cleaners using all methods. In fact I just purchased a CIMEX machine which is for an encap method There is a time and place for VLM cleaning, and in those instances it is superior to HWE.

Feel free to watch my vids on Youtube. Did I comment on your vid? Please let me know and I’ll rewatch and reevaluate. Most times I’m seeing a lot of misinformation and I know the uneducated public is watching these. You should see how ChemDry sells itself.

Come on to Mikeysboard and lend your expertise to the group. They are a hard bunch, don’t pull any punches, but if you really believe in what you do and stand by it and can show the results, they will have a lot of respect for you.

Sorry but Vonschrader is the best system.

I would agree if there was some extraction.
But tell me if I’m wrong, isn’t VS an encapsulation method?

quit lying in your article, steam is antique and bad because too much water is used and there is no agitation.

Jerry, you are talking about steam cleaning being antiquated because of no agitation but what decade are you getting your info from, the 70’s??
Better catch up to what we’re doing in the 21st century. I use a lot of agitation and I extract over 90% of the water I put down.
Better yet, why don’t you educate me as to why VS is the best. What is a link to info on line where I can research what you are doing?

 

[joeynbgky]

We took over anapartment complex this summer. The previous company used VS.. Lets just say they are amazed what we can get out of the carpet. They replace so much less of it.

 

[Dolly Llama]

FUNNY

steam cleaning is "antiquated", but VS isn't??? :shock:
gimmie a break.. :roll:
they've only been shampooing carpets for how long???

I don't know what it is, but it seems the VS faithful are "cult" like in their beliefs

what the heck do they do to them in Racine at te skool of VS?


..L.T.A.

 

[Ryan]

VS guys make me mad... but at the same time they make me look good. Their usually set in their ways and won't listen to reason of any kind. It really ticks me off when they try to "educate" people, but the ones in my area always get terrible results so they create more jobs for me.

 

[rotovacguy]

Racine was my peddle route years ago when I drove for a large LTL trucking company, and used to get in VS all the time.


The guy there always tried to get me to buy their equipment, this was like 15 years ago, way before I got into carpet cleaning, and even without knowing a thing about it then, it STILL seemed like a total POS. To each their own, but that whole encap idea is just half assed, imo.

 

[Dolly Llama]

it STILL seemed like a total POS..

I wouldn't call their equipment a "POS".
It's pretty well built stuff.

It's the inability of the "cultists" to accept anything but the "manna" from Racine Wi

You can show them better, more efficient methods and PROVE they are better in every way and they still have a blank stare/glazed look in their eyes like nothing sinks in.... :|


..L.T.A.

 

[BRSUMMERVILLE]

All methods are good. It depends on the operator. If you don't fully understand how chemcals, equipment, procedures, principal of the method work. The area is not getting clean.

I've been using Von Schrader's equipment for 16 years. I've cleaned areas were HWE cleaners could not get cleaned.

It's the lack of knowledge of the operator, not the method or equipment.

Let put the shoe on the other foot. When some one talks bad about HWE, a lot of cc defends the method. That sounds like a cult.

I'm not against other methods. I just preferred the "Dry Foam Extraction" Method.

Bob Rock

 

[Jack Zipper Zerkie]

1981 cleaned my first doublewide old shag orange and who knows what other colors it was? the carpet was junk. I rented a von schrader used their product. I cleaned the main largest room. I von scharder the whole room, the used a hoover portable extractor on only one side of the carpet as a experment rinsed with water and left returned the next day.The side that had been rinsed looked much better.
The von schrader did a good job but the extraction made a major difference.Later I switched to a roatry and used steam chem to clean and then extract. The carpet cleaning trade has come a long way thanks to all of the new things out there.
jack z.

 

[joeynbgky]

All methods are good. It depends on the operator. If you don't fully understand how chemcals, equipment, procedures, principal of the method work. The area is not getting clean.

I've been using Von Schrader's equipment for 16 years. I've cleaned areas were HWE cleaners could not get cleaned.

It's the lack of knowledge of the operator, not the method or equipment.

Let put the shoe on the other foot. When some one talks bad about HWE, a lot of cc defends the method. That sounds like a cult.

I'm not against other methods. I just preferred the "Dry Foam Extraction" Method.

Bob Rock

you cannot be cleaning dirty carpet just clean carpet for real.. get a tm and realize the difference. VS is ok for in between cleaning and thats it

 

[Dolly Llama]

All methods are good. It depends on the operator. If you don't fully understand how chemcals, equipment, procedures, principal of the method work. The area is not getting clean.

I've been using Von Schrader's equipment for 16 years. I've cleaned areas were HWE cleaners could not get cleaned.

It's the lack of knowledge of the operator, not the method or equipment.

Let put the shoe on the other foot. When some one talks bad about HWE, a lot of cc defends the method. That sounds like a cult.

I'm not against other methods. I just preferred the "Dry Foam Extraction" Method.

Bob Rock

Bob, I have no doubt you're a good conscientious cleaner.
i don't doubt you've cleaned areas that some HWE dude couldn't get right, either

I find most of the "cultists" are those that are one method only cleaners and refuse to try or learn other methods..
either stand alone or in conjunction with each other.

I'm glad you're not against other methods.
I'm quite familiar with VS ...I owned one years ago......and I'm not "against" VS
But the dude that sent Ron the message is clearly a brainwashed knucklehead that doesn't have a clue


..L.T.A.

 

[rotovacguy]

it STILL seemed like a total POS..

I wouldn't call their equipment a "POS".
It's pretty well built stuff.

It's the inability of the "cultists" to accept anything but the "manna" from Racine Wi

You can show them better, more efficient methods and PROVE they are better in every way and they still have a blank stare/glazed look in their eyes like nothing sinks in.... :|


..L.T.A.

Larry, I should clarify. The equipment is actually very well made, as you stated, no problems there from what I saw. What I meant to say was that the idea of encapping, "dry foam", whatever they want to call it never struck me as an effective way to clean, even before I educated myself in carpet cleaning. They have a machine that claims to clean 12,000 square feet an HOUR!! No friggin way are you getting a quality clean at that speed, I don't care what they throw down on the carpet.

But for guys like Bob Rock it seems to be working well for them, and that's good. As I say, to each their own, it's just not my style. :mrgreen:

 

[Dolly Llama]

Larry, I should clarify. The equipment is actually very well made, as you stated, no problems there from what I saw. What I meant to say was that the idea of encapping, "dry foam", whatever they want to call it never struck me as an effective way to clean, even before I educated myself in carpet cleaning.

ahhh, gotcha, Telly

and you know, I've always wondered what the heck is "dry" foam??
The only foam I know of that's really "dry" is "styro"foam .....


..L.T.A.

 

[Bill Soukoreff]

According to the VS guys I see in my neck of the woods, it is a cult for broke carpet cleaners who can't afford anything better.

 

[hogjowl]

The longer I stay in this industry, and the older I get, the more I have come to understand that it's not the cleaner, nor the method, that makes one successful.

It's the repeat and referral customers that do the trick.

If they're happy with your system, then who cares what other cleaners think?

 

[Ron Werner]

It's the repeat and referral customers that do the trick.

If they're happy with your system, then who cares what other cleaners think?

And thats the measuring stick, how many call back.

But how many call back until they try another cleaner and they go, wow, never knew it could come up like this. Get that from a lot of do-it-yourselfers. Sometimes people don't know what they don't know and aren't asking any questions.

If Jerry was like Bob Rock, I'm sure we would have a good conversation about it. Jerry doesn't even want to listen or investigate. He keeps saying I'm using no agitation; he has no clue as to what is happening in the industry. That's the sad part. All this info is available like it never has been before, and he's keeping blinders on. Hec, I've even got a Cimex now, and I'll market it as a way to maintain commercial carpet, but I'll also be explaining that it needs to well vacuumed before and after and at some time it will need to be washed.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Some of the funniest stuff on the Bulletin Boards was from "Bob the Foamer" (Johnson I think) from southern California. He and Jeff Cross would go around and around.

That was about 1998. A couple of years later I looked up Bob to invite him to the first Summerfest but he was under the weather.

 

[rwcarpet]

All the power to the cleaners that can sell "dry foam". If I tried to drag a machine into my custys house or business that looked like something you could rent, I'd be leaving (as I've said before) with 3 shoes......2 on my feet, and 1 in my arse!

Customers in my area are sold on GOOD and PROFFESSIONAL HWE, especially the ones that have tried dry foam and CD bonnett cleaning.

(I do have and use a pad machine when needed)

 

[Shorty]

He or she that has the most weapons in their arsenal wins.


They are all toys, each one to be played with differently to get the best possible satisfaction.


Sometimes, this means playing with more than one toy to get a smile.



Ooroo,


:roll:

 

[Steve Lawrence]

I used VS for 2 years when I first got started in 1973. It was okay for that era but I was quickly converted to HWE when it was demonstrated on my own carpets. We got my carpets much cleaner with the Deep Steam Extraction portable and the amount of suds coming out of my carpet was impressive. VS claims their detergent is brittle and is vacuumed in post vacuuming but I don't feel that claim is really accurate. Plus VS cleaning was much slower for us than HWE. I was really quite relieved to start using HWE and my customers were, too.

I still use and like their furniture dry foam machines. Awesome method for moisture sensitive fabrics.

BTW, dry foam is a term used to describe foam which is only about 10% water, the rest being air.

 

[Zee]

We have used VS for years....personally I believe its the lamest way to clean carpet in the 21st century. I have friends that still swear by VS and its pretty much their only weapon. I get into arguments about the agitation issues...they do not understand how a cimex, 175, op, or heck even 600psi 20 flow is a form of agitation.
Dry times- another issue.. VS guys don't understand that dry times they boast about, are easily achievable with our truckmounts and airpaths.
These days I try not to talk to them about carpet cleaning methods...I got tired of them not understanding up to date technology!

 

[Zee]

Perhaps this method would clean better then VS... :mrgreen:

http://thereifixedit.files.wordpress.co ... 003179.jpg

 

[randy]

Francis Vonshrader started marketing his dry foam machine in 1935. Although the chemicals and design of the equipment have changed greatly over the last 74 years, the principles have not changed at all. Their dry foam system has actually been around much longer then hot water extraction so I'm not sure where the word antiquated really applies.

Normally when you get someone emailing you this kind of crap it's a newbie that just got back from carpet cleaning school and has decided he is an expert. Recently I got an email blasting me for encapping a 3,000 square foot job and being done in 2 hours, from an newbie HWE guy. He apparently was pissed that we under bid him by "over half and knows that job was done incorrectly and too quick to be done right."

Actually it was one tech (yours truly) and took four hours. I charged $750 which I'm happy with. This guy emailing me is a perfect example of the damage a few guru/ instructors have done in GREATLY MISLEADING NEWBIES. He thinks he is going to charge 50 cents a square for cleaning slightly soiled commercial carpet that gets cleaned every three months. Can that happen in a few cases ? Sure, I have one commercial account (15,000 sf ) that we charge .40 cents a square, BUT YOU WILL NOT BUILD MUCH VOLUME at that rate in the commercial carpet cleaning sector of this business.

The funniest thing is the guy's parting shot in the email, " I regularly average $75-$90 per hour ! Maybe someday you can make that." Perhaps his math really is that bad , but I grossed $187.50 per operating hour on that job,

It seems the bullshit flows both ways ( between HWE guys & the VLM guys) BUT there are plenty of false assumptions in the VLM commercial carpet cleaning world.

The number 1 "lie" : The recession hasn't effected the commercial market ( thus you better buy this over priced wonder scrubber to supplement that $15,000 to $25,000 unit sitting in your van OR you won't be able to make it in the commercial market).

Total and complete bullshit, the commercial real estate vacancy rate is at a 20 year high. There are more empty retail spaces ,offices, and entire buildings then ever before. The recession has slammed the commercial sector just as hard as the residential market, in some areas worse. You can clean commercial carpet with HWE and get a great result without a wick back problem. Are there jobs that would be easier to clean with VLM ? You bet, however with a little extra time and maybe an encap rinse agent you can get wonderful results with HWE on commercial carpet. If you already have the truck mount I would take a strong look at the Zipper and skip the VLM unit. The zipper can be used on commercial & residential and would be a great choice to battle the fatigue & wicking issues on large commercial jobs. On the other hand if you don't have a truck mount already and are focusing mainly on commercial work the Cimex , or Whittiker would be strong performers.