Vortex RPM's Up and Down :-(

[Carpet Cleaning Fool]

The rpm's on my vortex 777 surge up and down when load is applied after about an hour.

The troubleshooting steps so far are:

1. clean the pto selonoid screens.
2. Replace and torque belts.
3. Drain water from fuel filter
4. Set lift to factory default of 13
5. RPM's set to 15k but will surge at lower rpm's as well

Thanks!

(I've seen a similar thread before but couldn't find it using search).

 

[Hoody]

Do you have the heat or AC on when running the TM ?

 

[Carpet Cleaning Fool]

nope. heat and a/c off.

 

[dealtimeman]

check you tranny fluid.

 

[Jim Martin]

you drained the water from the fuel sediment filter ..correct.....when was the last time the fuel filter was changed on the UD......I bet when you are driving and have your foot on the gas under a load the truck is fine...you are putting more fluid pressure threw the filter...seems like if it is holding steady for an hour then the RPMS start to jump around with less fluid pressure....you need to change the fuel filter.... a good diesel additive to help clear the injectors might help also.......Lucas has a good brand.........

 

[Carpet Cleaning Fool]

Had the tranny flushed about 2500 miles ago and fluid level is fine. I hope its not the transmission.

But no telling how old the fuel filter is. That baby's getting replaced today!

Its sort of an intermittent problem. Only materializes when cleaning upholstery or 150 foot + hose runs with RX20 on CGD.

It might take a few days to see if the fuel filter does the trick.

Thanks gang!

 

[hogjowl]

This would be a good time to repost the Jim Martin changing the fuel filter on the Vortex thread ... with pictures.

 

[Jimbo]

Are you setting the parking brake prior to cleaning, George? On my V this would activate the exhaust brake...and then it would actually try to come on at times...affecting the rpm of the engine.

 

[Erik]

Are you watching the gauge? If the gauge stays at 1,500 RPM and it still goes up and down, it's probably the clutches in your pto.

 

[joe harper]

CHECK YOUR BLOWER BELTS.... :!:

If it take an hour....Your belts may be glazed or loose...

When they HEAT-UP...they will slip on the PULLEYS... :wink:

 

[hogjowl]

Or, better yet, just call Mr. No Ass Martin and talk to him.

 

[Greenie]

betcha it's a slipping belt issue.

"Its sort of an intermittent problem. Only materializes when cleaning upholstery or 150 foot + hose runs with RX20 on CGD. "

If it happens with uph. or longer hose run, it's load. I assume the uph. tool has a 1.25" dia hose, and I'm gonna take a wild guess that you are just running a stock single 2" vac hose on out to that RX?

You still have a 4" blower hose sucking on a single 2" hose that might be reduced down.....them belts are gonna slip unless you have your vac relief dialed down to 14"hg.

Plus.....you've probably got the typical vortex grease dripping on the belts and glazing issue and have had it for years, if the fuel filter is old, chances are the belts are too.

 

[Jim Martin]

It is the fuel filter and you will notice the difference pretty quick...If it was a loose belt or anything to do with the blower you would know it right when the machine starts up...not after it has ran a bit....there is a lot of torque on the belts.....If these belt are off just a bit they will not grab at start up they will slip and make all kinds of noise as you are bring the RPMs up ....once it gets itself going to full RPMs it is pretty much free spinning from that point....same as if you have grease dripping on them...they will not grab at start up......you will here it right away and you will smell it........

 

[joe harper]

The rpm's on my vortex 777 surge up and down when load is applied after about an hour.

The troubleshooting steps so far are:

1. clean the pto selonoid screens.
2. Replace and torque belts.
3. Drain water from fuel filter
4. Set lift to factory default of 13
5. RPM's set to 15k but will surge at lower rpm's as well

Thanks!

(I've seen a similar thread before but couldn't find it using search).

I missed in your post that you had REPLACED..the belts...

Brian Cannon had the SAME problem on his A-TECH...last month... :!:

It was the throttle actuator...The throttle control has a nylon gear that had worn...
It would SLIP..under load .. :!: The RPM's would surge VIOLENTLY...when under load..

We replaced the throtle controller...and solved the problem.. :wink:

These machines are all so different.. :roll: ..I don't know if this is an issue with your "V"
or not... :? JIM is the go-to guy... :idea:

 

[Greenie]

"once it gets itself going to full RPMs it is pretty much free spinning from that point"

until you put it under 17"hg of vacuum load. Ain't nothign FREE spinning from that point on.

that said, the extra load would require more FUEL to hold the same rpms....so yes, it could very well be a fuel restriction from the dirty filter.

clean filters and some BIG hose....

WAIT!
You said it's only happening under load.....Diesels should not surge because of the governor, I think it's the PTO slipping.

 

[BLewis]

As Marty said this would be a good time to repost the thread of Jim Martin replacing the fuel filter with pictures. I was about to start a post asking for advise on this but after my last question I am a "little" gun shy. I have a new filter setting in the front seat, all other maintenance is up, and the weather is supposed to be 45 here on Thur and Fri so I would like to get this filter changed.

I would imagine after switching it out you just have to prime or pump the air out like you do when you drain the water. However, Jim if there is something more please let us know.

 

[Jim Martin]

I just posted the mechanical way of doing it..you can also just pull the fuel filter off and take a small can of diesel fuel and fill the new one up to the top and put it on....The other way is to open the priming pump and make sure you get all the air out of the system...If you have a big air bubble it can hurt the injectors.....Just make damn sure the fuel filter is filled all the way to the top before you put it back on and you will be fine...This is the way I always have done mine......

 

[hogjowl]

Billy:

Don't be so sensitive.

We wouldn't pick on you unless we loved you.

Danny on Marty's computer.

 

[Jim Martin]

If memory serves me correct these are more computer controlled and do not have a governor..........(?).....

 

[BLewis]

Hey Danny/Marty,
I'm just fine, I was just joshing around.

However, I did do a search for the fuel filter change. And the only info that was there was enough to scare the jeebers out of ya. I don't wish to have to change a damaged fuel pump @ $5,200.! or I might be trying to sell my V to you!!! Jim confirmed what I read in the search, to make sure you fill the new filter up with diesel so the pump isn't pumping dry which sounds like what happened in that post.

Thanks, Jim

 

[Erik]

A fuel filter will show it's FACE on the highway high RPM, for lack of fuel. PTOIMO

 

[BradFenstermaker]

George you don't have the exhaust brake on while cleaning?

You will be surprised what a fuel filter will do for these older trucks. Mine had been on a looooonnnnng time. Made a huge difference.

Pto here is what I have found if indeed we have a Chelsea 270 on these 777's.

Go to page 4 for exploded view, interesting stuff on how it works

http://www.parker.com/literature/Litera ... -M1_US.pdf

Call tomorrow if you need to, the filter change isn't bad Jim's old post taught me how plus a phone call. Thanks Jim


Later

 

[dealtimeman]

did the up and down in the rpms happen before you flushed your tranny?

if yes disregard.

 

[Carpet Cleaning Fool]

Wow!!!

Thanks for the help everyone! Yesterday I spent all morning scrubbing rugs and all afternoon servicing the UD. Then last night went out and scrubbed rugs again. This is the first chance I've had to log-in and I'm overhelmed with the level of support. Thank you very much!

Decided to start with the easy stuff first.

I replaced the fuel filter. After spinning it loose I noticed a date of August 2005

Then, removed and cleaned the sedimenter

Also, replaced the thermostat

Then, dumped in a pint of deisel fuel additive (didn't see the Lucas so had to settle for Prestone).

Now, this truck runs better than ever!

It's smother, quiter, and the cab and fresh water tank heats up faster. Well worth the few dollars it cost for parts.

I haven't determined yet if it resolved the original problem will keep ya' posted.

However, I did discover something interesting yesterday while climbing all over.

It looks like the drive shaft is twisted and getting ready to snap.

Here's a couple pics i took w/ camera phone.

Think I'll pull the driveshaft out tomorrow night and have it rebuilt, or wadever they do to fix em.

Thanks again!!! Got 2 go

 

[Dolly Llama]

you're gonna love that money pit...er...money maker


..L.T.A.

 

[dealtimeman]

Good to hear keep us updated as to original problem.

 

[Jim Martin]

something else you may want to consider while you are doing all your truck maintenance.....(If you haven't already)..you might want to service the rear axle.....because of her age and miles and taking into consideration that the fuel filter was just over 4 years old... :shock: .....this has probably never been done....This has nothing to do with any of the above problems ..just a heads up so you won't have more issues down the road...........you would be amazed how many people over look this.....

 

[BradFenstermaker]

George that driveshaft looks like a u joint failed sometime and she drop on the safety hoop while driving.

Definetely get that looked at.

Question on the sedimentor,did you replace or clean? If cleaned how?

Later

 

[Carpet Cleaning Fool]

Its been a couple days since I performed the maintenance and the V hasn't hiccupped once. It's running great. Haven't done any upholstery or 150' CGD but will keep you posted.

The driveshaft is out and goes into the shop in the AM.

Brad, I cleaned the sedimentor in a coffee can half full of deisel, put the lid on, and slosh around. Rinse and repeat.

When replacing the fuel filter its a great idea to fill it with diesel fuel first. Then, loosen the bleeder screw, pump the primer knob until air stops coming out, tighten the bleeder screw and your done.

 

[Carpet Cleaning Fool]

Its confirmed.

The problem has been resolved.

Thank you! :-)