Vortex Shawn Mike

[adamh]

What happened?
I was the Vortex sales manager for BLUEline.

The economy started to tank almost as soon as I moved to AZ to work for BLUEline. It became harder and harder to get people financed for a $100K cleaning machine. The worse the economy got the harder it was to sell any machine. Within a year production in ALL truck mount manufacturing went down 70% or more. ALL TM manufactures had to lay off. I was one of the last to go but it was obvious it had to happen.

NO company can sell machines that people can’t pay for. I worked hours and hours a day with financial companies trying to get people financed. However, it was almost impossible to find even people with 700 + credit scores financing. Laying me off was the only thing BLUEline could do. I did everything to sell trucks but it wasn’t happening. Heck, I did everything we could to sell anything. I guess my lack of sales skills did not help, but I sure did my best.

The death of the Big Truck.

The new diesel emission standards make it close to impossible to run a HX off a new truck. It is sad but funny that York (being a tree hugger) has his truck ruined by tree hugger emission standards That alone has killed the V and will kill the AT. IMO the biggest reason for the death of the Big Truck is the economy. I know nothing of SS doings or anything about that company but I am certain they are like anyone else. Any company will continue to make a product if it makes them money. No company in their right mind would stop production of anything if it showed a good profit. It is my opinion that BLUEline or SS had no choice but to shut down production of a truck that was not and could not be sold.

Mikeysboard

All truth be told, we lost as many sales to the boards and we made. I can’t tell you how many guys would stop the purchase of their new V after reading Steve G and others (that never owned a Vortex) rants about how the Vortex is the devil itself. It is my opinion that Mikeys board and the other boards sometimes helped and many times hurt the Vortex. Win some, lose some.

I read with disgust as Mike and Shawn had it out on the board. Mike and Shawn knew each other and had a beef with each other. I wish it had been just between them. However, people that had ZERO fight in the battle kept going on and on. Many found great joy in causing others pain. When Mike told Shawn “to stop while he was ahead,” I wished he would have. Shawn did himself and the Vortex name great harm by continuing the fight.

I can’t imagine finding joy over someone else’s life turning to crap. Even if it is by their own doing. I hate seeing anyone hurting, even when they deserve it. ( I still refuse to treat my X wife with anything less than the utmost respect, and I promise you after what she did she doesn’t deserve it!) However, that is the boards for ya. Live by the boards be prepared to die by the boards.

I spoke with Mike and he found no joy in doing this but felt he should defend himself and York did asked him to do it. I have not spoken with Shawn about it.
Shawn is my friend. Mike is my friend. I have no horse in this race and really don’t care anymore. I would just say to the both of you, live and let live. Life is too short to fight.

Shawn, I am sorry but IMO you are fighting a fight you can not win. Get a TM and start over. Go out and make a fortune cleaning carpet and tile. Prove to the world you can do it!
From what I have seen Mike has tried to let it go, but being a strong willed person, he will fight when you rattle his cage. Mike, please let it go when you can.


Just my 2 cents.

 

[Brian R]

For most people, buying a V would turn their life to crap financially. I wish no harm on anyone but I will tell it like it is an not hold back.

I know...I don't have an arguement in this other than my opinion. If someone doesn't have an alternate view then the view that is given by one might be taken by all or most.

If you have an opinion and keep your mouth shut about this, you may be part of the problem.

It's carpet...it doesn't need the most powerful cleaning machine in the world to clean it.

How hard is that?

 

[Ken Snow]

Good to hear from you Adam, hope you're well.

Ken

 

[Mikey P]

Adam nailed it.

Read what he said again
Its all the truth.




What it comes down to now is that Shawn has no desire or ability to start Vortex back up, he only wants a pay out from Sapphire for a dollar amount he dreamed up based on lost future sales. Sales he could never prove in court so he was only rewarded with his company being given back to him. He has one more court date coming up where he will get five minutes to try and prove that the judgment from the arbitrator was illegal and or based on false information.

It's not going to happen.


The economy killed the Vortex (think Hummer) not Bill Bruders and not Mikey's Board.


Shawn, I know you're reading this so get off your friends couch, comb your hair adjust your finances and either come up with the next great thing or get a job.
Sorry ol' pal but you're not the only victim of this financial situation. Be a man and move on.


and good luck!

 

[joe harper]

For most people, buying a V would turn their life to crap financially. I wish no harm on anyone but I will tell it like it is an not hold back.

I know...I don't have an arguement in this other than my opinion. If someone doesn't have an alternate view then the view that is given by one might be taken by all or most.

If you have an opinion and keep your mouth shut about this, you may be part of the problem.

It's carpet...it doesn't need the most powerful cleaning machine in the world to clean it.

How hard is that?

Brian,

If your statement ABOVE...ring's TRUE... :idea:

Isn't you TOYota...with a cap on it....an EXCESSIVE purchase considering your VOLUME
of work... :?:

Wouldn't a UsEd "SHOPPING CART"...be sufficient to to ToTe your "SprAy & SmEaR" unit :roll:

jus sayin.. :mrgreen:

 

[Ken Snow]

For most people, buying a V would turn their life to crap financially. I wish no harm on anyone but I will tell it like it is an not hold back.

I know...I don't have an arguement in this other than my opinion. If someone doesn't have an alternate view then the view that is given by one might be taken by all or most.

If you have an opinion and keep your mouth shut about this, you may be part of the problem.

It's carpet...it doesn't need the most powerful cleaning machine in the world to clean it.

How hard is that?

Brian,

If your statement ABOVE...ring's TRUE... :idea:

Isn't you TOYota...with a cap on it....an EXCESSIVE purchase considering your VOLUME
of work... :?:

Wouldn't a UsEd "SHOPPING CART"...be sufficient to to ToTe your "SprAy & SmEaR" unit :roll:

jus sayin.. :mrgreen:

It could all fit into those giant carts they have at places like Costco or Walmart! :mrgreen:

 

[Brian R]

Yes, I suppose I could have started it with the trunk of my car....I suppose.

It was the cheapest, right sized, nice looking vehicle I could find for what I wanted.

I also needed towing capability...so this was it.

I wanted a smaller cab but there were just more of the double cabs so the price worked.

 

[joe harper]

It ..APPEARS to me that "most" on this board ..LEASED their "V"... :?:

If this is the case..? How was it a BAD decision..?

Their payment was probably between $1000.00 to $1300.00 a month.
{depending upon the down stroke}

If...they had the work.. :idea: The "v" has made them some serious JACK... 8)
They were able to deduct 100% of the lease against their INCOME...!

I HAVE NOT READ ONE OF THESE LEASES......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

However, If the purchaser had the intention of doing a "BUY-OUt" @ lease end...?
I am sure the residual is WAY INFLATED...in this current ECONOMY... thathurts

Soooo...What is the PENALTY to just RETURN the unit..?
Were they $1.00 buy-outs .?

Taking into CONSIDERATION..the present used TM market.. :!:
You could be in WORSE shape..If you had paid $55K for a Van & TM.... :x

If the UNIT is TRUELY finished...&..there is NO more production...?????

I would think that a LEASING company ...would take "pennies" on the dollar in LEU
of trying to move the RETURNED dIsConTinUed UNIT... :idea:

ADVANTAGES & DIS-ADVANTAGES...to LeAsInG... !gotcha!

Just remember...EvErthiNg is negotiable... !gotcha! !gotcha!

 

[Brian R]

Yeah, because having a big TM brings in tons of work. :roll:

 

[joe harper]

Yeah, because having a big TM brings in tons of work. :roll:

EXACTLY.... :mrgreen:

The "liTTle uNiT'S"....NEVER are in the "mOnEy Shot'S".... !gotcha!

The little Guy'S...are DesTinEd to always ...just be FlUffEr'S... thathurts

You KnoW..!!! The fellows that "FlUff" the dirt out with their coTtoN Pads...

"Not that there is anything wrong with that.".. :mrgreen:

 

[Mikey P]

Corkster has to downplay the value of a Big Truck.

Do you think anyone who built or paid over 50 grand for a cleaning unit needs his service?

 

[Brian R]

Corkster has to downplay the value of a Big Truck.

Do you think anyone who built or paid over 50 grand for a cleaning unit needs his service?

They will need it more than the guys who don't pay too much for a big rig you dolt.

 

[ronbeatty]

Joe, i think Brian needs to ride along with one of us so we can show him WHAT'S UP.

 

[Brian R]

You act like I've never operated a big TM or truck before. :roll:
I used to drive stingers and DT's for the city for about 4 years back in the day
I've ran some pretty big TMs too.

I know they are powerful as hell...but it's just not worth it to clean carpets....to me.

 

[bensurdi]

I say LONG LIVE THE BIG TRUCK!!!!

I bought a big truck, and 5 months later bought my 2nd. No regrets so far! Making awesome money, turning heads and they've been problem-free!

 

[Mikey P]

how many times have you been taken to court Ben?

 

[bensurdi]

What does that have to do with you or a vortex Mike?

 

[tmdry]

I say LONG LIVE THE BIG TRUCK!!!!

I bought a big truck, and 5 months later bought my 2nd. No regrets so far! Making awesome money, turning heads and they've been problem-free!

Didn't you buy a zerorez truck? Was it the guy that had it for sale on Jondon in the east coast, someone was selling a few for around $15k.

The above comments are of cleaners purchasing or leasing a $80-$100k, not the used ones.

 

[steve frasier]

If compare loans/leases there is only a $400 difference between big slide in and box truck vs a V, insurance is about the same, gas is a slight bit more at times, but major problem will be a lot more $$ to fix

I have more than doubled business with $0 advertising in 3 years with the V

 

[Jim Bethel]

Nice, down to earth, honest post.

Good to hear from you Adam. Hope life is treating you well.

 

[steve g]

adam, you probably don't remember me, but when I met you my first thought was he sure seems like a nice guy. so none of this is ever personal

first off everything I said about shawn and vortex as true and then some, mikey is also proof of this as I am sure he agrees. IMO for all but a very very few % of people a vortex is a boat anchor around the neck rather than a means to instant fame and success. the machine was sold as something that owning and by merely owning will make you a success, it was said that one aught to cash in ones 401k just to by one. the machine was also marketed and guaranteed by and I quote our own famous mikey p "your buying a machine from a man in a van down by the river" Shawn was never more than a middle man for whatever manufacturer he hadn't pissed off yet. then when blueline came about, this gave the machines what most of us thought was a stable company behind them, but even that turned out to be false.

the fact is if one is creative they can put together a system that equals a vortex in performance and productivity for way less money. the machine will be backed by a company that will actually be in business in the future. the reason I said all I did was because honestly I didn't want people to get hosed. I didn't want anyone to have an albatross around the neck like I believe the vortex is. and in the end I was right all along. I could see what was going to happen. I could see the machines were never going to appeal to enough people. I could see how it was a poor financial decision to a guy. the guys that have been successful with vortexs have been so regardless of their equipment. I would wager if they ran a resoil out of a pickup truck they would still be successful cleaners. being a successful cleaner is more about image and perception. I always say 70% bullshitting ablilty and 30% actual results = the customers perception of the work done. I have also seen vortexs sitting at my suppliers shops in salt lake city utah area, THIS IS WHERE SHAWN USED TO LIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BTW and the suppliers were totally on their own trying to figure out how to fix the machines. parts could not be found and fixes had to be engineered rather than just a part changed out. there WAS no support for the machines, shawn was never ever a technical guy he was a salesman. The manufacturer of the moment were the actual ones that designed the machines. I chose to bring all this to light so other could be protected and not piss away 100k. I personally think shawn can be a success in business, actually probably be richer than all of us one day if he just applies his marketing abilities to something that appeals to more people, likely not even related to the carpet cleaning industry. that is what he should do rather than putting all his time into being mad about how the deal turned out.

adam, the question I have to ask is if your vortex as really making you THAT much $$$$$$$, why in the hell was blueline or anyone else for that matter able to possibly pay you enough money to make you give up your business and go to work for them??

 

[adamh]

adam, the question I have to ask is if your vortex as really making you THAT much $$$$$$$, why in the hell was blueline or anyone else for that matter able to possibly pay you enough money to make you give up your business and go to work for them??

Why I liked the Vortex?

I purchased a Vortex because I wanted a real dual wand machine. I tried many but nothing dual wanded like the Vortex. I could not stand letting an employee do the work without me overseeing the work so dual wanding seemed like the most productive way to go. I loved my machine and it made me tons of money and I could do about 30% - 40% more work in a day dual wanding so it was everything I wished for.

Why I moved and started working for BLUEline?

My wife ( at the time ) was having terrible medical issues and needed a warmer climate and great medical insurance. I was having horrible back pain most of the time ( L4 and L5 were damaged) and I needed the health insurance for her and me to get off the truck. BLUEline offered me the job as Vortex sales manager and we thought it would be the best for our situation. BLUEline gave me fantastic health insurance. Both my wife and I found the Docs that fixed us both up. I dropped 45 lbs and had a therapist teach me how to strengthen my core. Since then my back has been great! My (X wife) found a Doc in AZ that helped her. ( Nobody in Idaho new what was wrong but this Doc knew exactly what to do and we saw a miracle. I spent at least $25,000 trying to get her help here in Idaho. ) So going to work for BLUEline was the best thing for us, physically. It wasn’t a money thing. I took a huge pay cut going to work for someone else.

I also thought I would have a ton of influence over the future Vortex. That was very exciting to me. However, I soon found out I was a dumb salesman that didn’t know anything and shutting up was what I was to do…. :roll: There is nothing like being self employed.

 

[Dolly Llama]

Adam,why don't you have a V or AT now???

don't have the work now to support it?
or are you looking for one?

Steve said what many of us have been saying all along;

"for all but a very very few % of people a vortex is a boat anchor around the neck rather than a means to instant fame and success."



BTW, you should of seen FMI Gordon's jaw drop when i told him the V would never be a hi-volume sale unit.
Hey Shawn, did you blow a bunch of smoke up Gordie's ass when you got FMI to be the V de juor manufacture??


..L.T.A.

 

[steve g]

adam It sounds like you are better off, perhaps at the end of the day the vortex diversion and working for them was better for you NOW in the end, if thats the case I am happy for you. you got rid of a wife sooner rather than later, would you have rather found out who she really was 10 years from now or known it when you did.

so its back to carpet cleaning again, what equipment are you running, if its not a vortex then why not?? I don't think any salesman in the world could have made vortex, so maybe your salesmanship isn't so bad.

 

[George V]

Maybe after you fart smellers get done killing off anything resembling a Big Truck you can help Barack Obama get re-elected in 2012.

I hear he's looking for a carpet cleaning Czar who knows everything.

Besides, you fart smellers seem to have all the answers.

 

[adamh]

I run a BLUEline Cobalt giving to me as a gift from BLUEline. Very nice of them to do so dont you think? I did buy a trailer mounted Powerclean as a back up because it was a steal and couldn't pass it up.

I do not run a dual wand machine because its just me and I dont have the work to support bringing on aother guy. Starting over is slow and hard. However, we are paying the bills and giving the kids a nice Christmas so I can't complain.

I have a BLUEline (out of business)
I have a Powerclean ( out of business )
Buying a Vortex would add to my streak. shiteatinggrin

 

[Dolly Llama]

Besides, you fart smellers seem to have all the answers.

I sure don't have all the answers, George.

It's a matter of dollars and $en$e to me
it's not hard to count bean$ to know if over capacity makes cents or not .

VERY few can utilize the capacity of mega mounts..and if you're not utilizing the capacity ..it don't make cents to own one



..L.T.A.

 

[ruff]

Maybe after you fart smellers get done killing off anything resembling a Big Truck you can help Barack Obama get re-elected in 2012.

I hear he's looking for a carpet cleaning Czar who knows everything.

Besides, you fart smellers seem to have all the answers.

I am getting confused here George.

So do fart smellers need a big truck or to vote for Obama?

 

[randy]

Besides, you fart smellers seem to have all the answers.

I sure don't have all the answers, George.

It's a matter of dollars and $en$e to me
it's not hard to count bean$ to know if over capacity makes cents or not .

VERY few can utilize the capacity of mega mounts..and if you're not utilizing the capacity ..it don't make cents to own one



..L.T.A.

Lier,
Everytime someone has a question on a gun, you have the answer. !gotcha!

 

[Dolly Llama]

Lier,
Everytime someone has a question on a gun, you have the answer. !gotcha!

not on "all" guns, Randy
just "most" of them..... :mrgreen:


..L.T.A.