Wands

[Charlie Lyman]

I have a 4 jet prochem wand and a 12 inch 1.5 2 jet wand. I don't like the prochem wand nearly as much as the 1.5 wand. I used the prochem wand until my shoulder started hurting, so I started using the 1.5 wand to see if it would be better. I am short so the smaller wand is real comfortable and my shoulder started feeling better.
Also, I haven't noticed any difference in the cleaning or dry times between the two.
Am I crazy, or should there be a significant difference between the two when it comes to performance?

 

[hogjowl]

Well, let me tell ya, fellow sufferer. I too went back to a 1.5 inch wand from a 2 inch a little while back. I MAY see a slight difference in the dry times between the two, but the difference, if any, is not worth the struggle to manage 2 inch hose and wands.

I'm sure there are some here who'll say a 2 inch cleans better, but I just didn't see it.

 

[Rex Tyus]

I MAY see a slight difference in the dry times between the two, but the difference, if any, is not worth the struggle to manage 2 inch hose and wands.

I thank God for competitors with that mind set. I wish they all had it.

 

[Charlie Lyman]

I use 2 inch hose except for a section that is about 2 ft long that connects the 2 inch hose to the 1.5 wand.

 

[Rex Tyus]

I use a 2.5" except for a section about 6 ft long, that connects the 2.5" to the 2" wand.

Why you ask?

Because I can. 8)

OK. I often use a 20 ft lead of 2". And yes I can feel the difference in the tension of the wand.

It is in my head you say?

Maybe, but it I feel it just the same.

 

[BillC]

I have the same TM as you and I found that the Prochem quadjet come with to big of jets. I think all 4 jets are #2 and for the Boxxer 421 you shouldn't have any bigger jet/s than 4-6 total jetting unless your using a glide or something else that improves vacuum. If the 2 jet wand your using came with your Boxxer unit then its made (jetted) for that unit so I would use it.

 

[TimP]

I am a "colleague" of Rex's and I'd use 2.5 lead hose to the door and 2 inch to the rest of the home. However I'm a broke start up business and just use 2" hose throughout, besides Greenie says the cds isn't worth getting 2.5. I did however splurge on a 2" wand with hole glide. The 2 inch wand is the real deal, after using it a 1.5 inch wand is a toy. I wouldn't be able to use a 2" without the glide however.

If you can't handle it do yourself a favor, vacuum, prespray, buy a 175 and prescrub and run high flow high lift and clean it the it should be done, buy a greenhorn or a pimped out titanium. There is no excuse to run a 1.5 wand with the invention of glides. And yes, the cds can stick a 2inch glided wand to the carpet fairly well. Especially at 50-100 ft which is 95% or more of the runs I make.

 

[BillC]

I am a "colleague" of Rex's and I'd use 2.5 lead hose to the door and 2 inch to the rest of the home. However I'm a broke start up business and just use 2" hose throughout, besides Greenie says the cds isn't worth getting 2.5. I did however splurge on a 2" wand with hole glide. The 2 inch wand is the real deal, after using it a 1.5 inch wand is a toy. I wouldn't be able to use a 2" without the glide however.

If you can't handle it do yourself a favor, vacuum, prespray, buy a 175 and prescrub and run high flow high lift and clean it the it should be done, buy a greenhorn or a pimped out titanium. There is no excuse to run a 1.5 wand with the invention of glides. And yes, the cds can stick a 2inch glided wand to the carpet fairly well. Especially at 50-100 ft which is 95% or more of the runs I make.

I haven't used a Greenhorn wand from Greenie but I have owned a Prochem Ti 6 jet and no matter what I did with jetting it is not a good choice with the 421.

 

[Rex Tyus]

I haven't used a Greenhorn wand from Greenie but I have owned a Prochem Ti 6 jet and no matter what I did with jetting it is not a good choice with the 421.

I have a close friend that I let borrow one of my Greenhorns. He has a 421. He fell in love with it. He is saving money behind his wife's back to buy one.

What kind of issues did you have?

 

[BillC]

I haven't used a Greenhorn wand from Greenie but I have owned a Prochem Ti 6 jet and no matter what I did with jetting it is not a good choice with the 421.

I have a close friend that I let borrow one of my Greenhorns. He has a 421. He fell in love with it. He is saving money behind his wife's back to buy one.

What kind of issues did you have?

I too am saving for a Greenhorn. I couldn't get the Ti wand to work right no matter what the jet size. I got streaking with it bad but never with any other single, two or four jet wand.

 

[Jim Nazarian]

There hasn't been been a lot of talk lately about Kunkle\Bayco relief valves, they make a world of difference on 421 type machines, your streaking-over wetting concerns will be solved if you use a Greenhorn wand+2" hose+precision vacuum relief valve.

 

[BillC]

There hasn't been been a lot of talk lately about Kunkle\Bayco relief valves, they make a world of difference on 421 type machines, your streaking-over wetting concerns will be solved if you use a Greenhorn wand+2" hose+precision vacuum relief valve.

So I've heard. My wife didn't want to hear it though!! More money for me to spend...

 

[hogjowl]

The kunkle valve was last years BB craze.

 

[TimP]

I have the Greenhorn, I'm saving for the bayco and tank support brackets for the cds. I'd like to add 2.5 but last I heard the bayco was better and the 2.5 didn't do as much for the cds. I also need to get some of that parflex to change out my now yr old stock solution hose. In fact my dang hydroforce inline sprayer stopped sucking up solution and I'm going to see if I can do something to get it working if not I am probably going to see about getting an omni sprayer or rocket sprayer. The cost of maintaining your business.

 

[Greenie]

What makes ya think the 421 can't handle 010 flow?

I mean it won't show 220º, but it will perform just fine.

You can make the Ti wand stop streaking easily, but I would probably just run a Greenhorn at this point.

 

[FastEddie]

I always head trip about 1.5" vs. 2"

Say you have 2" hose to a 2" wand. Then take 2" hose with adapter to a 1.5" wand. I believe the 2" wand gives more lift, creating the feel of more suck, but when the glide is on the carpet working, the glide's cfm capabilities keeps the cfm's equal?

What moves the water from point a to point b? cfms, correct?

 

[Greenie]

..... but when the glide is on the carpet working, the glide's cfm capabilities keeps the cfm's equal?

What moves the water from point a to point b? cfms, correct?

No way....you still have this thing called a "bottleneck" there is a limit of how many cfm you will cram through a 1.5" hole, or more accurately a 1.4" hole as most smaller wands measure this inside diameter.

Other than the bottle neck, all is well.

And it takes LIFT to move that CFM.

 

[FastEddie]

I hear ya Greenie, but add up all the tiny glide holes and do a calculation. Do they add up to the size of the 1.4" hole? Isn't a hole glide the biggest "bottleneck"

 

[Rex Tyus]

Isn't a hole glide the biggest "bottleneck"

Slot velocity comes to mind.

 

[Jay D]

I have 6 wands. Not as many as some people(GREENEEEE). But enough to be close to a fetish. Alright I like carpet cleaning stuff, I'll admit it. I have 2 2" wands both glided. One is sturdy and I like it but it is too heavy. The other is a 14" 2" Pmf and a lot lighter. I use the Pmf 2" wand when I can, but I have to admit the circumference starts to take its toll on my hands and they start to hurt. Then I return to the other PMF I have 14" 1.5" wand. That eases the pain and keeps me working. I still get great dry times with the 1.5" wand because I TRY to get good dry times with a 1.5" wand. For those without hand pain stay with the 2" but for me sometimes the 1.5 is the only way to go. What ever works for you :wink: .

 

[Steve Smith]

Isn't a hole glide the biggest "bottleneck"

Slot velocity comes to mind.

How about the increased velocity of a 1.5" wand?

Example: 200ft of 2" vacuum hose to 2" wand
Does the 2" wand increase velocity?

200ft of 2" vacuum hose to 1.5" wand
Does the 1.5" wand increase velocity?

 

[The Magician]

Its not worth your health to use a 2" wand if it bothers your shoulder. You could cause permanent damage. Use the airmovers with your wand.

 

[Rex Tyus]

How about the increased velocity of a 1.5" wand?

Example: 200ft of 2" vacuum hose to 2" wand
Does the 2" wand increase velocity?

200ft of 2" vacuum hose to 1.5" wand
Does the 1.5" wand increase velocity?

You are joking right?

Any restriction between the wand carpet interface and the blower intake hinders airflow.
To increase slot velocity you must reduce restrictions not increase them.

To answer your questions, I would have to say, increase as opposed to what?

 

[TimP]

A simple test that you can do is hook up your 1.5 wand and look at your hg's. Then hook up the 2" wand and look at your hg's. I've noticed a huge difference in resistance between the hydrahoe and greenhorn although I had a 10ft whip line choking down the blower with the hydrahoe.

 

[Rex Tyus]

Let me try again. The hole glide increases slot velocity because it is at the slot. Any restriction prior to the slot is simply a restriction. The less restriction you can get away with from your blower intake to the wand carpet inter face the more available lift you will have thus the more cfm through the fiber. Plus the glide reduces the wand lock down effect of a nicely plumbed set up.

Tim is right. A high lift reading on the guage is not a good thing.
A high lift capacity is.

 

[Jay D]

You get more lift(restriction) on a hg guage at 100ft with a 1.5" wand (7hg) VS a 2" wand(5Hg). Tested it at Cobbs one day. Larry, Nick and Me present. I am not sure what that means other then it is a balance between cfm and hg. I am sure the 2" was flowing more CFM for sure. Just what WE observed. :roll:

 

[Dolly Llama]

BillC, PM me if you're interested in selling your Ti wand.
Maybe you'll be able to get the greenhorn wand you want.

Now to the original question..

Charles, you're not crazy.
The Prochem 4 jet wand is a HEAVY, jet pile distorting POS if you ask me.

Not a thing wrong with the 2 jet AW29 wands.
We use a glided and modified Ti now, but the AW29 wand was our wand of choice for years.
Light, nimble and inexpensive.

We carried and used 2 on the van all the time.
One was jetted with a pair of 02 flow jets for light soil res and one had a pair of 03 flow jets for apts and heavy soil conditions.

We found it wasn't necessary to blow over 350 psi with them.
Indeed, the dudes that blow 450 to 550 psi with them are nutz and dry times will be an issue


..L.T.A.

 

[Rex Tyus]

That is a good one to break down Jay.

The 2" wand provides 2" more lift at the wand carpet interface. meaning it will be able to pull more air through the fiber.

Remember you want the gauge reading as low as possible (providing you don't create an air leak to achieve that.)

Every system has a finite amount of restriction it will tolerate in order to intake the needed quantity of air for the blower at the given rpm it is turning. The more you use up from the blower intake to the slot the less you have available to recover water with.

 

[Steve Smith]

Rex,

Please give us some insight into your truckmount extraction setup from blower to the wand slot?

Starting with the blower, size, rpm, hose diameter from blower to waste tank, hose from waste tank to wand (150 foot setup), wand tube size, etc...

Thanks.

 

[Greenie]

that is it.....Rex is hired, I'm turning over the High Perf. room.


I can see life getting waaaaay easier.