Water Softeners

[everfresh1]

How many of you guys use them ? I used to use a simple one, It was just a plastic container with salt with a QD on each side. One side pluged into the water inlet the other to my solution hose it was only about 50 bucks but it helped keep the scale buildup down. The supplier I used to buy them from went out of buisness. I cant find them anywere else. I dont want any of those big things they have, Takes up too must room in the van.

 

[TimP]

RV supply places sell that kind of thing. You can check e-bay too. Other than that I don't know where else to tell you.

 

[Mark Saiger]

I use the larger Hydro force water softners. I also put a pre filter before the water softner to help catch more debris. It definately is good for your system and you will use less cleaning solutions.

Mark

 

[Mike Draper]

Geeez, I thought everyone had one. How can you clean good without one?

 

[everfresh1]

I was hoping one of the supplers here might have something.

 

[Mikey P]

Good timing.


I need something for the Lunchpail

 

[boazcan]

I was at an interlink dealer getting my new unit checked out, and he pulled out what you describe. Hooks up at the fresh water inlet, comes with its own "salt" that lasts longer.

I ended buying one the small softeners on the rack that will fit between the dump tank and chemical shelf. Used on ebay.

 

[joe harper]

Hey Mike,

I have a extra Water Softner for your Lunch-Pail......

The 805 I bought came with a softner.....
If you want it....I can take it to Les & he can ship it with the Pail...

Let me KNOW ?????

 

[everfresh1]

I was at an interlink dealer getting my new unit checked out, and he pulled out what you describe. Hooks up at the fresh water inlet, comes with its own "salt" that lasts longer.

I ended buying one the small softeners on the rack that will fit between the dump tank and chemical shelf. Used on ebay.

:?: Which Interlink dealer was it ?

 

[FloorPizza]

Finally, a thread I can actually contribute to...

I'm a car detailer. A seriously OCD car detailer. Water spots are not acceptable. So I did what any OCD detailer would do: spent a couple hundred hours reading up on hard, soft, and de-ionized water. I use de-ionized water for detailing. You'll see why here in a sec.

Water is considered "hard" when it has a large amount of dissolved minerals (mineral ions) in it. When water is "softened" by a typical sodium ion exchange softener (all of the softening units that use salt are sodium ion exchange softeners), the water comes out with more sodium in it proportional to how hard the water was going in. Yeesh, that sounded confusing...Look at it this way... every mineral ion is exchanged for a sodium ion. So the harder the water going in, the more sodium it'll have in it coming out. Detailers hate this, cause sodium leaves white spots when it dries. But if you live in a place where the water isn't that hard to start with, it's not that big of a deal, since the water won't have much sodium in it after it has been softened. Sodium ion exchange softening is cheap, but you do have the sodium issue, if it matters to you.

Just to be clear.... let's say we run a gallon of water through a sodium ion exchange water softener. As this gallon of water goes in, it has 100 mineral ions and 0 sodium ions in it. When it comes out the other side of the softener, it'll have 0 mineral ions in it, and 100 sodium ions in it.

So what's the alternative? De-ionized water. Filters that use a de-ionizing resin will remove the mineral ions, and produce "soft" water without the sodium. So what's the catch? The resin can't be re-charged using salt the way that a sodium ion exchange softener can. The resin *can* be recharged, but requires the use of both muriatic acid and sodium hydroxide. Not fun. The resin is also pretty expensive.

The other way to get de-ionized water is with a Reverse Osmosis system. These units are pretty expensive to buy, but cheap to use.

Utah has some of the hardest water in the country. It's damn near chewy. Using a sodium ion exchange softener here produces water with a ton of sodium in it. I use a CRSpotless (crspotless.com) to de-ionize the water I use for car washing. It's not cheap, but it works very well. If (when) I get my CC business going, I'm going to get a reverse osmosis system to fill the van's fresh water tank every night. Using our hard water on carpet results in really stiff carpet when it dries.

Well, that's probably more about hard/soft water than you wanted to know. Sorry.

Edit: Sheesh, i got so wound around the axle talking about water that I forgot to post this web site: http://www.pwgazette.com/ They have small (and large) sodium ion exchange (they can be re-charged using salt) softening cartridges that will work with a garden hose. Much cheaper than buying a complete home water softening system, these filters/cartridges are perfect for filling your van's fresh water tank. After you fill the van's tank, remove the filter cartridges from their housings, chuck them in a five gallon bucket full of water and rock salt, and they'll be ready to fill the van up again in about twenty minutes or so.

 

[TimP]

I saw a deionizer on cobbs webstore it was like 4,000. Way out of my budget. Hell I have a hard time justifying 500 for a softener.

 

[Chris A]

I have one in my truck, but haven't charged it in 6 months, think its still working?

 

[FloorPizza]

I have one in my truck, but haven't charged it in 6 months, think its still working?

Depends on how hard the water is you're running through it. If it's not too hard, it could still be producing soft water. You can recharge the resin by removing it and chucking it in a five gallon bucket full of really salty water. Let it soak for about twenty minutes, then put it back in the softening unit.

 

[everfresh1]

Finally, a thread I can actually contribute to...

I'm a car detailer. A seriously OCD car detailer. Water spots are not acceptable. So I did what any OCD detailer would do: spent a couple hundred hours reading up on hard, soft, and de-ionized water. I use de-ionized water for detailing. You'll see why here in a sec.

Water is considered "hard" when it has a large amount of dissolved minerals (mineral ions) in it. When water is "softened" by a typical sodium ion exchange softener (all of the softening units that use salt are sodium ion exchange softeners), the water comes out with more sodium in it proportional to how hard the water was going in. Yeesh, that sounded confusing...Look at it this way... every mineral ion is exchanged for a sodium ion. So the harder the water going in, the more sodium it'll have in it coming out. Detailers hate this, cause sodium leaves white spots when it dries. But if you live in a place where the water isn't that hard to start with, it's not that big of a deal, since the water won't have much sodium in it after it has been softened. Sodium ion exchange softening is cheap, but you do have the sodium issue, if it matters to you.

Just to be clear.... let's say we run a gallon of water through a sodium ion exchange water softener. As this gallon of water goes in, it has 100 mineral ions and 0 sodium ions in it. When it comes out the other side of the softener, it'll have 0 mineral ions in it, and 100 sodium ions in it.

So what's the alternative? De-ionized water. Filters that use a de-ionizing resin will remove the mineral ions, and produce "soft" water without the sodium. So what's the catch? The resin can't be re-charged using salt the way that a sodium ion exchange softener can. The resin *can* be recharged, but requires the use of both muriatic acid and sodium hydroxide. Not fun. The resin is also pretty expensive.

The other way to get de-ionized water is with a Reverse Osmosis system. These units are pretty expensive to buy, but cheap to use.

Utah has some of the hardest water in the country. It's damn near chewy. Using a sodium ion exchange softener here produces water with a ton of sodium in it. I use a CRSpotless (crspotless.com) to de-ionize the water I use for car washing. It's not cheap, but it works very well. If (when) I get my CC business going, I'm going to get a reverse osmosis system to fill the van's fresh water tank every night. Using our hard water on carpet results in really stiff carpet when it dries.

Well, that's probably more about hard/soft water than you wanted to know. Sorry.

Edit: Sheesh, i got so wound around the axle talking about water that I forgot to post this web site: http://www.pwgazette.com/ They have small (and large) sodium ion exchange (they can be re-charged using salt) softening cartridges that will work with a garden hose. Much cheaper than buying a complete home water softening system, these filters/cartridges are perfect for filling your van's fresh water tank. After you fill the van's tank, remove the filter cartridges from their housings, chuck them in a five gallon bucket full of water and rock salt, and they'll be ready to fill the van up again in about twenty minutes or so.

That's a lot of good info we have very hard water here in the Detroit area too. I don't carry my own water on my mini vans it's too much weight I dont really have much problem hooking up to a water source that's why i had the little cheap water softener always hooked up to my inlet fitting and just hooked up the hose to that, It was convenient worked pretty well and the salt lasted a long time, They just started leaking after a couple of years though now I can't find them any more i'll check out the web sight and see what they have, Thanks

 

[Ron Werner]

I seem to remember someone mentioned that De-ionized water is hard on the fittings, it draws minerals out of the mechanical system

 

[FloorPizza]

I seem to remember someone mentioned that De-ionized water is hard on the fittings, it draws minerals out of the mechanical system

Urban Legend. Water that is softened with a sodium ion exchange softener *will* contribute to rusting, as sodium accelerates the process, but true mineral-free (de-ionized) water does *not* make anything rust or corrode any faster than regular water. Even regular water will take more minerals if it can find it; the max amount of dissolved minerals water can hold is enormous.

 

[Larry Cobb]

I saw a deionizer on cobbs webstore it was like 4,000. Way out of my budget. Hell I have a hard time justifying 500 for a softener.

Just to clarify, the unit is a RO water system.

I think Dave Gill runs one, and he is quite happy with his rinsing results.

The technology is initially expensive, but no rinse chemicals are required.

Residue on the carpet is the lowest of any system I know of...,
that is being used in carpet cleaning.

Larry

 

[everfresh1]

:?: I guess none of the suppliers here carry anything like I was looking for, not many people are going to spend hundreds to thousands on expensive softening system

 

[boazcan]

I was at an interlink dealer getting my new unit checked out, and he pulled out what you describe. Hooks up at the fresh water inlet, comes with its own "salt" that lasts longer.

I ended buying one the small softeners on the rack that will fit between the dump tank and chemical shelf. Used on ebay.

:?: Which Interlink dealer was it ?

http://www.excelsupplies.com/index2.html

 

[Guest]

:?: I guess none of the suppliers here carry anything like I was looking for, not many people are going to spend hundreds to thousands on expensive softening system

Go to ebay,there is one called the water stick,is that what you are looking for?

 

[everfresh1]

:?: I guess none of the suppliers here carry anything like I was looking for, not many people are going to spend hundreds to thousands on expensive softening system

Go to ebay,there is one called the water stick,is that what you are looking for?

I saw that one, I might have to settle for that if I can't find the kind I was looking for. I'll check out the supplier that was posted first.

 

[davegillfishing]

yep i run a ro system...i will not ever clean carpet without ro water..rinses best and will not scale up the equip and much much less chem usage.
if anyone has questions just call or email and ask..
dave

 

[wpschoch]

DI water can eat at metal fittings unless they are stainless steel. If you're going to use DI water, you need more than just a DI tank. The standard size is good for about 800 gallons around here. I'm a window cleaner and use DI water all of the time as well. By the way, the DI water used to drip on the side of my white f150 before I started closing my ball valve. The DI water began to erode the paint in that area. The most economical way to produce 100% pure water long term is with a van mounted purification system that can run around $10k. I use a DI tank because I'm not cleaning windows full time, but if you're going to purify every drop of water you use, a DI tank is not the way to go. Window cleaning supply companies have some crazy expensive systems for purification. Some of them even have built in burners.

Can't imagine why anyone would insist on using water with zero dissolved solids for carpet cleaning. It's not like it needs to dry spot free like windows or a car. Just soft water should be enough. A TDS meter would be really helpful to those of you who want to know how soft your water really is before and after purification. No need to make it a reading of 0 though.

 

[davegillfishing]

you cant imagine why?? i use it as a marketing tool. i tell people to go spray their car down and let it air dry..then talk about
the spots that cant be wiped off they need to be buffed clean..then ask them if they want that going into their carpet or tile..
you cant clean carpet with dirty water!!

 

[FloorPizza]

DI water can eat at metal fittings unless they are stainless steel. If you're going to use DI water, you need more than just a DI tank. The standard size is good for about 800 gallons around here. I'm a window cleaner and use DI water all of the time as well. By the way, the DI water used to drip on the side of my white f150 before I started closing my ball valve. The DI water began to erode the paint in that area. The most economical way to produce 100% pure water long term is with a van mounted purification system that can run around $10k. I use a DI tank because I'm not cleaning windows full time, but if you're going to purify every drop of water you use, a DI tank is not the way to go. Window cleaning supply companies have some crazy expensive systems for purification. Some of them even have built in burners.

Can't imagine why anyone would insist on using water with zero dissolved solids for carpet cleaning. It's not like it needs to dry spot free like windows or a car. Just soft water should be enough. A TDS meter would be really helpful to those of you who want to know how soft your water really is before and after purification. No need to make it a reading of 0 though.

If you were having problems with DI water causing corrosion you were using crappy resin. Water should exit DI resin at (or at least very close to) 7pH. If you're using a mixed-bed (cationic/anionic) resin, *most* of the time you'll have no problems with corrosion (which is caused by the water either being to alkaline or acid upon exiting the resin). If you are using separate resins (one cation and one aniionic), it's quite common to not have them balanced correctly, and you'll end up with pH problems.

Water that is properly DI'd is just like water that is properly R/O'd: it is the same as regular water, only very pure and with darn near zero mineral content in it. The lack of minerals *does not* cause water to be any more or less corrosive than water that has minerals dissolved in it. It'll change it's electrical potential some, but not to the point that it alters it's corrosive properties.