What % do you get taking rugs to your in plant cleaner?

[ruff]

What is the percentage that you get when taking your clients' rugs to your favorite in plant cleaner?

My point of view is:
1) There is very little chance that they will get that business otherwise.
2) I am the one who developed the relationship and trust with the client.

So, for the in plant cleaner, especially since I do the pick up and delivery, it is all gravy.

What percentage or discount do you get?

 

[tim]

Usually an inplant cleaner will cut their normal rate by 30 to 50 percent. This is to allow you to competitvely quote and make it worth your time to do. I can tell you from experience that inplant cleaning is far from gravy. It is slow and meticulous work that can be very time consuming and laborious. Picking up a rug and returning it clean, fresh and without dye bleed etc. is the gravy part. It is much easier to clean carpet. If you get charged $2 per foot and charge $3.50 to $4.00 per foot plus delivery, that's a bird nest on the ground!

 

[LisaWagnerCRS]

What is the percentage that you get when taking your clients' rugs to your favorite in plant cleaner?

My point of view is:
1) There is very little chance that they will get that business otherwise.
2) I am the one who developed the relationship and trust with the client.

So, for the in plant cleaner, especially since I do the pick up and delivery, it is all gravy.

What percentage or discount do you get?

Wow... if a rug plant says yes to offering you a discounted rate, you should be grateful. Yeah, you might have the "relationship"... but they have paid the money to open up a large facility, trained the staff, and covered the supply and insurance costs to have a place for you to even go to.

They certainly aren't sitting around waiting with nothing at all to do... every plant owner I know is really busy right now, and I can tell you they don't go ga-ga over getting more wholesale work from cleaners, especially the butthead cleaners. It's certainly not "gravy" work - as they tend to bring in much dirtier rugs on average (because if it's lightly soiled they tend to try to do it themselves), and they complain about the price more even though they get a discount that others do not.

In my city I choose who we give a negotiated rate to... just because someone is in the cleaning or restoration business does not mean I have to automatically give them a discounted rate. There is no law that says that. There is just "Lisa's Law" which is that I only want to do work on behalf of good cleaning companies in the city, and no assholes allowed.

You might adjust your attitude a tiny bit before you meet with a company you want to subcontract to. Then you can get a better deal than if you go in saying you are entitled to a better rate because you rock and they suck. That's not a good negotiating strategy.

Lisa

 

[alazo1]

I would have to be compensated for the pick up and delivery somehow which can be a major pita. I think this is why Ofer said gravy on the part of the rug cleaner.

Take furniture out of rug, wrap it up, deliver, pick up, put back in place with the matt. Put furniture back. Oh no I wanted it a few inches to the left. Screw that. I would just give them their card / brochure, maybe work out a 10% finders fee.

Albert

 

[ruff]

As usual Lisa, a very defensive answer and inventing imaginary slights where there are none.
Wow!

Reminds me of a small aggressive fish we know, that wants to eat the competition alive

I don't think that in plant cleaning is easy (I've cleaned quite a few myself) and know the amount of work and expertise that is involved. Nothing like experiencing one's own sweat to appreciate others' hard work. I am also well aware of the large investment involved in creating and maintaining a plant.

In addition, I very much appreciate the local in plant cleaner that is an expert and is exceptionally nice.

However from a business point of view, as mentioned in my original post, they get a client with much less cost involved for themselves.
They did not spend the time and money to get that client- I did.
And their plant is already working. The money they pay their employees and the cost of operating and expertise are going to be relatively the same, with or without cleaning other rugs (that is what I mean by 'gravy.')

And since in a good business relationship both parties gain, I was curious about the percentage. Good legitimate question, isn't it Lisa?

So, get off your usual high horse and give a real answer if you wish. Not the usual self interest promoting ones you are so used to giving.

Shish............... you are starting to remind me of Jeff Bishop and Ruth whats her name.

Brrr........................ the similarities are scary :shock:

 

[Ken Snow]

How about you are both right. Ofer, I also started to get defensive reading your post and then can see Lisa got a little defensive in her reply. Both of you are right - both the cleaner who picks up and delivers and the plant cleaner need to make a profit doing the work.
88% of our rugs come to us through our drop off centers and those customers get an effective discount of about 33% off our pick up and delivery price. Our wholesale cleaning customers get 40-50% off if they bring the rugs to us, depending on their volume so their discount over our regular customers is 7-17%.

We also have wholesale customers that we pick up and deliver from i.e. dry cleaners and they get a straight 25% discount.

Ken
Ps I would get a major hard-on if we were getting anywhere near the prices you guys tak about.

 

[Burtz]

Wow... if a rug plant says yes to offering you a discounted rate, you should be grateful. Yeah, you might have the "relationship"... but they have paid the money to open up a large facility, trained the staff, and covered the supply and insurance costs to have a place for you to even go to.

in this economy they would be grateful you bringing them rugs to clean with no cost for advertising or pick up or deliver.

on the other hand I can clean them in house with a OP machine and some encap and keep all the money for myself

 

[Ken Snow]

Alex, we are cranking full bore and we are in detroit.

 

[ruff]

Thank you Ken.
A nice, straight forward answer.
In perfectly clear English that even an E.S.L. gentlemen like myself can understand

I appreciate it.
And your usual straight forward answers on many other subjects.

 

[Burtz]

would you turn away the extra rugs or just snub your nose in the air like rug snob Liza

A DISCOUNT HOW RUDE

 

[John Watson]

I guess I am just one of the lucky ones..

If I don't do it myself I have had a great relationship with all the plant cleaners in my area. We have recieved 35-50% off their standard pricing. I also have been fortunate enough to have the relationship with our clients that I could keep them 4-6 weeks in order to aquire enough rugs to make it more profitable for us and alow for the 3-4 hrs of travel time. Just taking a few small rugs in at a time won't cut it.

 

[Burtz]

for bringing in rugs I would at least demand a 50% discount or better the rug plant is making tons of money off you anyway

buck a sq foot max more that's enough profit for the rug plant

 

[ruff]

Alex, we are in agreement on most of the issues, however what is the right amount of $ for the in plant cleaner to make is none of my business.

It has to be profitable and worth their while. And we don't know their exact costs etc.

So, there is no way anybody should (or has the right) to tell them what they need to make per ....and what is profitable enough.

Al I am trying to find out is what is a reasonable percentage.

Ken answered very well and others too.

 

[tim]

A dollar a foot for inplant cleaning?!! I would walk away from that in a heart beat! I would rather clean carpet for $69 for the whole house. Go spend a day at a rug plant and see if you still feel that way. I agree with the part about compensation for pick up and returning rugs but that should be an extra charge. The truth is I would much rather clean carpet than soak rugs but it is a nice way to fill in my schedule and gain confidence in an upscale client base. Some rugs can be cleaned in place with an OP, but I wouldnt try it on the majority of rugs I get!

 

[Burtz]

come on how much time and high labor costs it's not rocket science

liza is about selling the sizzled not the steak you hose off a rug rinse rinse rinse hang to dry

nothing more complex than this video

c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4cNOacsFPkc]

 

[LisaWagnerCRS]

Rug cleaning may not be rocket science - but it is not all gravy. You need to have a skilled team handling the rugs, and unless you have a crew of illegals, they are being well paid, covered by workers comp, and the related perks to keep them.

My getting "miffed" by your post Ofer was in that there seems to be an assumption that rug plants are dying for a lot of wholesale work. My perspective may be different than the more volume based operations, because only 5% of our accounts are wholesale - everyone else gets the same price whether it's cash, credit, homeowner, or insurance claim. $4.50 per sq ft for all rugs except silk, artificial silk, and Navajos which are $5.

9 times out of 10 any "problem" orders we have are wholesale orders. There are some awesome cleaning companies and restorers and dry cleaners in our city - but there are also some crappy ones. We usually discover the crappy ones after one order. So we stop doing business with them.

That might seem "snobby"... but we did not build our business to deal with problem children on a daily basis. Business is a partnership, so we bring our best to our clients, and we expect their best in return. And if they aren't happy with that, there are plenty of other companies for them to choose from who don't do the work as well as we do... and are cheaper too.

Rug cleaning is not big fat easy money like some of these guys scream all over the place. If it was, they would not be peddling expensive rug equipment - they'd be just cleaning rugs. They clearly did not know how to do it right.

A successful rug plant requires delivering consistent excellent cleaning and service and building a large repeat customer base that you keep in contact with. And there is no shortcut to that.

So Ofer, I think it's great you want to subcontract to a rug plant. Find one that you hear good things about, and when you meet them why not ask them what would make you a great customer to them. Ask them if there's anything they don't like about wholesale clients they have right now. Then you will know how to become their "favorite" wholesale account - and will likely end up getting an even better rate as a reward. One way to make sure that happens is to now and then send them direct referrals of retail work - that is one of the requirements I have for the accounts we have with retail rug galleries, that they send us a few retail direct referrals in exchange for their discount. And we in return send them referrals of our clients looking to buy new rugs.

Hope that helps,
Lisa

 

[LisaWagnerCRS]

How about you are both right. Ofer, I also started to get defensive reading your post and then can see Lisa got a little defensive in her reply. Both of you are right - both the cleaner who picks up and delivers and the plant cleaner need to make a profit doing the work.
88% of our rugs come to us through our drop off centers and those customers get an effective discount of about 33% off our pick up and delivery price. Our wholesale cleaning customers get 40-50% off if they bring the rugs to us, depending on their volume so their discount over our regular customers is 7-17%.

We also have wholesale customers that we pick up and deliver from i.e. dry cleaners and they get a straight 25% discount.

Ken
Ps I would get a major hard-on if we were getting anywhere near the prices you guys tak about.

So Ken... when you have problem orders, do they tend to be retail orders, or subcontracted ones?

Just curious...

Lisa

 

[Burtz]

how skilled do you really need to be with a garden hose

f]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUYkEMmPpPwf]

 

[XTREME1]

I wash rugs and I wouldn't wash rugs for another cleaner. I would rather clean for their client later or have one of their clients tell them how they got screwed. The same reason why my restretches are so crazy busy because all these turds think a knee kicker is a restretch


Guess what oriental experts, you can't get piss out of a rug spraying it

 

[LisaWagnerCRS]

how skilled do you really need to be with a garden hose

d]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUYkEMmPpPwd]

Alex, are you being serious?

The rug in the video is Chinese - it's a beast when wet. The dyes won't bleed on that one (probably the reason why they picked it for the video) - so with the right shampoo and rinse, it's a straight forward wash IF you have the equipment, that wringer, to get that large amount of water out of the rug. That wringer runs about $30k ten years ago to buy new - and todays spinner wringers will run you closer to $50K.

You need to have the space for that large equipment - and the process for drying and grooming the rug - a mechanized rack system will run you around $10K for about a dozen poles. And the space to dry it completely - the air movers, dehus, and warm air to make it happen thoroughly.

Potential problems with a Chinese rug like this one are that it's chemically washed fairly heavily before going to market, and this process yellows the cotton fringes, so the fringes are treated with a strong hydrogen peroxide treatment to make it that "pearly white" color. The chemical wash weakens the wool fibers, and makes them sensitive to color loss due to direct sun light, to high heat, and to any of your standard stain removers - even Stain Magic for Wool will fry the dyes out of these rugs.

The peroxide treatment makes the fringe tassels weak - so scrubbing them, on the worst ones, will tear them off. If you can take one strand and when you tug it, it breaks, you need to be extremely careful. I've seen a few cleaners grab the end of a Chinese rug in their little wash pit set up and pull it by the fringe to move it, and rip the end off. And that's a tough, tough repair.

So... if the cleaner handling this fairly "safe" Chinese rug has little or no rug skills, they can easily ruin the rug with the wrong pH solution, using too much agitation on the field without enough water to buffer the brush, using heat, using a heavy wand - or a rake groomer - that can scar the fibers, or not getting enough of the moisture out from the middle cotton fibers of the rug in the drying process, which can lead to mildew problems.

Pile distortion, color loss, yellowing of the wool and/or fringe, halos around stains from stain removers - these are all common problems I see unskilled cleaners create with a generally safer to clean rug like this.

Toss in a rug that's a bleeder, or has pre-existing conditions that will create a cleaning nightmare (tea wash applications, stenciling, dry rot, old repairs, etc.), or is a rug that may be worth $1,000... or $100,000 - and put that in unskilled hands, and if you do not have workmanship coverage (which many states do not have for rug plants) - then you pay out of pocket for any of those mistakes.

If you think cleaning rugs just requires a hose... I'll wait to see how long it is before you post your horror story of the silk rug that cost you your business.

Just because the cleaning steps are simple looking - it does not mean they are easy... and it does not mean they do not require skilled cleaners behind them.

I don't poo-poo your craft or talent of cleaning floors in homes... please don't poo-poo ours in plant.

Lisa

 

[Burtz]

please post a youtube of your fine crew and what it takes to really clean
shhhhhhhh

and we wont tell about all the gallons of vinegar from Safeway

and English sub tittles for the Russians

 

[XTREME1]

I had a lot of rugs from one home a few weeks ago that I had so many problems with it was crazy

One rug had been soaked in an area with urine when we picked it up but it was rolled so we didn't see it. when we rolled it out Dye migration

Next we had one that was washed but bleed to the fringe

third had an adhesive from the worker on it but not identified at inspection

all told probably 20 rugs from this home all imported with no historical data

Fixed all the issues and dye mugration is concealable and collected a huge check

 

[Ken Snow]

Lisa- I am going to guess they are more retail orders, but it is almost always due to us making the mistake of not being very clear in expectations or when the person who brought the rugs in (husband, kid etc.) is not the actiual decision maker/owner of the piece. Like you we have good wholesale accounts and they get their price and they can charge their customer whatever they choose.

 

[ruff]

This thread went into areas it was not intended to.

There is no argument on my side: A good in plant cleaner is hard working and an expert in their field. Just like we, hopefully are, in cleaning carpets.
They invest time and money to run their plant and should be compensated accordingly. What they charge is none of my business (I can always choose not to do business with them and so can they.)

Anybody here that ever cleaned rugs (I did many) knows that it is hard, time consuming, detailed work.

All I am asking is what is a fair or common percentage.

I understand that you negotiate different percentages with different people. And if you don't want to disclose what it is, I respect it. It is a business decision. Personally, I find Ken's openness about the percentage more straight forward and less likely to upset his wholesale client.

So. Lisa, what percentage do you pay and at what volume?

 

[ruff]

My getting "miffed" by your post Ofer was in that there seems to be an assumption that rug plants are dying for a lot of wholesale work.

No such assumption. Like any good business deal, it has to be mutually beneficial.

9 times out of 10 any "problem" orders we have are wholesale orders. There are some awesome cleaning companies and restorers and dry cleaners in our city - but there are also some crappy ones. We usually discover the crappy ones after one order. So we stop doing business with them.
Agreed, wholeheartedly. Just like you Lisa, I refuse to work with problem client, or even better, I refer them to my competitors.

So O fer, I think it's great you want to subcontract to a rug plant. Find one that you hear good things about, and when you meet them why not ask them what would make you a great customer to them. Ask them if there's anything they don't like about wholesale clients they have right now. Then you will know how to become their "favorite" wholesale account - and will likely end up getting an even better rate as a reward.

Agreed and I did. I pick up and deliver. I spend time with the clients explaining everything they need to know and answer all their questions. I set the clients expectations on a realistic level. I write pre-existing conditions in detail and have them sign it. I don't expect a special treatment and I pay on pick up. I must be one of your dream clients.


One way to make sure that happens is to now and then send them direct referrals of retail work - that is one of the requirements I have for the accounts we have with retail rug galleries, that they send us a few retail direct referrals in exchange for their discount. And we in return send them referrals of our clients looking to buy new rugs.

Not gonna happen. I am not a store, I am a carpet cleaner. My clients are my most valuable asset. The in plant cleaner is benefitting from all the years and effort that I've spent creating trust and good will. The discount is due to bringing the in plant cleaner extra business with very little extra expense incurred to them. They are benefiting from my years of hard work.
You seem to discount that.
Hope this also helps.
Hope that helps,
Lisa

P.S. So what percentage do you pay?

 

[Burtz]

what liza is saying is she will charge you full retail price no discounts or very little for you to make a profit on. ( HOW DARE YOU MAKE MONEY OFF HER )

Now Ken snow does not care the more you bring the better it gets ( MORE MORE MORE BRING ME MORE )

I guess is to shop around and find a rug shop that will work with you pride aside you need to make money regardless if it's so called gourmet cleaning or not

 

[LisaWagnerCRS]

This thread went into areas it was not intended to.

There is no argument on my side: A good in plant cleaner is hard working and an expert in their field. Just like we, hopefully are, in cleaning carpets.
They invest time and money to run their plant and should be compensated accordingly. What they charge is none of my business (I can always choose not to do business with them and so can they.)

Anybody here that ever cleaned rugs (I did many) knows that it is hard, time consuming, detailed work.

All I am asking is what is a fair or common percentage.

I understand that you negotiate different percentages with different people. And if you don't want to disclose what it is, I respect it. It is a business decision. Personally, I find Ken's openness about the percentage more straight forward and less likely to upset his wholesale client.

So. Lisa, what percentage do you pay and at what volume?

It varies from 10% to 35%. And that's based on few factors, one being how long the relationship has been between our companies, and if they send us direct referrals regularly. So it's not really based on volume - it's on how easy it is to work with them and if they are a company who not only refers us, but who I want to refer work to as well. Generally the higher percentage goes to galleries.

Hope that makes sense,
Lisa

 

[rhyde]

come on how much time and high labor costs it's not rocket science

liza is about selling the sizzled not the steak you hose off a rug rinse rinse rinse hang to dry

nothing more complex than this video

I agree thats why you should open your own wash plant and make "the big money"

 

[ruff]

This thread went into areas it was not intended to.

There is no argument on my side: A good in plant cleaner is hard working and an expert in their field. Just like we, hopefully are, in cleaning carpets.
They invest time and money to run their plant and should be compensated accordingly. What they charge is none of my business (I can always choose not to do business with them and so can they.)

Anybody here that ever cleaned rugs (I did many) knows that it is hard, time consuming, detailed work.

All I am asking is what is a fair or common percentage.

I understand that you negotiate different percentages with different people. And if you don't want to disclose what it is, I respect it. It is a business decision. Personally, I find Ken's openness about the percentage more straight forward and less likely to upset his wholesale client.

So. Lisa, what percentage do you pay and at what volume?

It varies from 10% to 35%. And that's based on few factors, one being how long the relationship has been between our companies, and if they send us direct referrals regularly. So it's not really based on volume - it's on how easy it is to work with them and if they are a company who not only refers us, but who I want to refer work to as well. Generally the higher percentage goes to galleries.

Hope that makes sense,
Lisa

Thanks,
That makes sense.

 

[ruff]

come on how much time and high labor costs it's not rocket science

liza is about selling the sizzled not the steak you hose off a rug rinse rinse rinse hang to dry

nothing more complex than this video

I agree thats why you should open your own wash plant and make "the big money"

Randy.................
You are setting him up.

Graduating from film making school, they used to say that all animators (you'd understand if you did any- very hard work) become alcoholics in their early thirties.

Do you find it to be true for rug cleaners?