What good comes from Working a SAT?

[Becker]

OK, I hate working weekends are rarely work one.

Well today reinforced the reason why.

When the engine really bogs down, and you come out to hear metel knocking, stressful running engine, and smoke and smell pouring from the TM it scares ya.

We I got off lucky, the smoke and smell was from the belt. The noise was coming from the bearing in this pulley.

Ok so all the bearing dealers are closed on weekends. Got a couple of Brewer dealers close by so I should be set for Monday AM.

Here is the question, I'm sure Shawn knows, or dare I say Bob.
Is pulley and the bearing 2 parts? Is the bearing pressed in?

It is a Brewer 15v4b.

Thanks

Go Hawks!

 

[Jim Martin]

it is 2 parts no matter how you look at it.....

it is probably a idler pulley....


it is never the less pressed.may not be a lot of pressure but never the less pressed


there should be a number on the center of the bearing (the part that slide over the shaft)

if you find that number you can replace it a lot cheaper just carefully tap in a new one with a mallet.........

also if I am right (by looking at the picture)
the pulley where the bearing seat should have just a slight tapper to it
the larger side (if it has one) would be the side the bearing is seated from.........

 

[Becker]

Yes it is an idler.

Only print on the bearing itself is the word Brewer any other print is destroyed.

No tapper, the bearing slides right though both sides.

Bearing alone the cost if not much, both bearing and pulley still not much $.

I just want a quick fix.

 

[Jim Martin]

if the bearing slide all the way threw then you will need the entire assembly
the hole in center has probably been damaged......


quickest fix and probably only fix is new everything....................

 

[Becker]

I agree Jim.

That is what I thought was weird is how easily the bearing pushes though. But the odd thing is the surface of the outside of the bearing and the surface of the inside of the pulley does not show any scuff, or apparent damage.

The only thing I can think of is the bearing has a flange on it that was damaged with it seized.

Oh well. Going out the the van, the 1st think I thought was.. Oh crap the engine is toast!

 

[Jimbo]

These guys will help you tonight: or tomorrow:


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1121 INDUSTRIAL WAY
LONGVIEW , WA 98632 -0000

Phone: (360) 425-4650
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701 NORTH OREGON AVENUE
PASCO , WA 99301

Phone: (509) 547-0721
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7321 E. TRENT
SPOKANE , WA 99212 -0000

Phone: (509) 924-4800
Fax: (509) 924-1731



Motion Industries ROCKS

 

[Becker]

Yeah, Motion is a great company I used them back in Spokane.
They were the 1st company I searched after getting the part off.

Bellingham would be the easiest and closest, but with a 120-140 mile round trip for a part I can get at 8am Monday I'll wait.

Surprised Motion does not have a Everett or Seattle location.

I have 2 Brewer dealers in Everett not 10 miles away.

Thanks to the Jims!

 

[Shawn Forsythe]

Becker,

The bearing can be replaced, if you can find a replacement. It's just placed with a retaining compound, with no press likely. Only seals and bronze bearings get "pressed".

You may have trouble finding the exact size. those bearings are done with an inner race width equal to the o/a width of the pulley, and an outer race equal to the hub width.

You may be better off just buying a replacement Brewer idler.

 

[Jim Martin]

There are types and styles of race/motor/idler bearings that are pressed in

and they are not all bronze........

My idler had a pressed bearings that weren't bronze that is why this caught my eye.because I had a similar problem with one...........

when the HM was installed the clutch was set up top the engine and the belt was replaced with a larger belt to accommodate the new clutch
and(my understanding) a idler pulley was added...........the idler pulley was giving everyone problems and was throwing bearings.......so HM's big fix was to by-pass the idler and put on a shorter belt.......seemed like a good idea at the time and everything ran OK........I noticed later on that my battery was having a problem holding a charge..........figured out that because the idler was by-passed the alternator was only getting a 1/4 wrap from the belt and as the belt wore in (stretched) it was loosing grip on the alternator.....
So I put/pressed/tapped in a new bearing back into the idler and put it back to use and I never had another problem with mine......

steal bearing just like this (except with a dust cover)

Loctite (if that is what your referring to ) is great for a lot of things but I myself would not trust it on high speed bearing to retain them..more so the outer race.once that lets loose the rest is history.........Might be why Beckers is like that.who knows....

 

[floorguy]

Thats when i make my good $$$$ is on weekends....


if ya would have kept an eye on your stuff, you woulda found it before it broke

 

[Becker]

LOL floor guy.

Guess what, 2 days earlier I did an oil change on the unit, inspected the belt, and tightened the belt using this same Idler.

I guess you are right, i really should be giving the machine a complete shake down between job, before the day starts and at the end of the day.

6000 hours, engine spins at 3200-3300 rpm. This wheel is a lot smaller than the drive wheel. I wonder how many rpms were on that bearing.

Lesson learned.

Thanks Shawn I knew you know!
I have 2 Brewer dealers within 10 miles, so with luck they will either have the bearing or a complete wheel for me.

 

[R W]

Well, you could have broke down Monday morning, and screwed up the next couple days. I just had a simular problem with the Genesis....the steel pipe connecting the exhaust manifold and the diverter cracked apart, and Powerclean wasn't open during the Holidays, so I improvised with regular steel pipe parts. It also happened between Christmas and New Years, so it wasn't busy. So goes the typical slide in TM with many thousands of hours on them.

 

[John Watson]

Guess what, 2 days earlier I did an oil change on the unit, inspected the belt, and tightened the belt using this same Idler.

Did you over tighten????? This is the major cause of bearing and/or belt failure.

Glad you can get parts close and it won't screw with your schedule to much.

 

[Shawn Forsythe]

Jim,

After consulting with Timken Bearings engineers, about 15 years ago, it was their strong recommendation that the driveshaft I was designing would have much longer bearing life if we DID NOT press the bearing. Moreover, they were quite emphatic that modern techniques had all but eliminated pressing for precision bearings, as it can only serve to distort the race.

Sure, you CAN press a bearing, but it is quite rarely needed, and in fact will worsen the only situation for a precision unit. And NO, "Loctite" is not a bearing retaining compound I have ever used, nor would I. Indeed, I can imagine some situations where the bearing might be better off with a slight friction press, but you also choose a bearing designed for such (looser internals to withstand the contraction/expansion)

Following closely Timken's recommendations, I never had a bearing come loose in the thousands of driveshafts we made. Moreover, we saw life of the bearings last many times the stated expectations. And, yes, I was nervous at first. But it was but one experience that taught me that anecdotal evidence of one, is superseded by the education and experience offered by many.

Sooo, we have one of your anecdotes to set a standard, counter what bearing manufacturers are finding for most cases. Hmm, OK. I''m glad your particular bearing withstood the abuse. It must be a good one. LOL

I think you just like to argue. :wink:




You remind me of a mechanic we once had. He liked to smoke, even around gasoline. He used to remark that it was perfectly safe, and used the example of his long experience and unburned existence as incontrovertible proof.








Becker,

i hope they get you back up and running on Monday with the part you need. Good luck.

 

[Jim Martin]

no I hate to argue

but there are so many different situations on so many different items that one way/methods is not always the way to go..........

Everyone who knows me on this board knows that I will bend over backwards to help anyone..........I never give advice that I have not worked on or experienced myself.and if I do I try to let them know......that I haven't......

I don't need a $20 dollar word for a .50 question........
most people are out there to sell you a cheap part or teach you a bastard way of fixing something and just wait in the shadows and collect on the needless repairs........

My grandfather was a mechanic .my dad was a mechanic and I have been on on both autos and machinery..........

That does not by any means mean that I know every situation .......but what I do know is that there are better ways of fixing thing to make them last....

so don't worry no one is trying to step on your toes.....

it's all good......we just share different methods........

 

[Becker]

Over tighten?

Nahhh.. I don't go though belts. I did when the pulleys were misaligned. That was after an engine swap 4 years ago.

I think it had more to do with age and hours.

I'll have a new TM by April or so.

This machine is about to get replaced, and completely rebuilt.






I'll let ya know what I learn tomorrow.

Playing with the parts, I'd have to agree with Shawn on this. It does not seem pressed in. The parts and surfaces are all in perfect condition besides the inner part of the bearing.

 

[steve frasier]

I got 3 walk ups on Saturday, one was the Mayor of Vancouver Washington while cleaning a restaurant that was getting ready for it's grand opening

gonna get another HydraMaster Don

 

[The Preacher]

he'll get what Stacy tell him too!!!


PS she still has one of his balls in a top drawer in her new condo!!!

 

[Chris A]

Don, how old's you HM, is it a 4.7 or 4.8? We had similar issues with our 98 4.7, pully flew out of the wheelwell about 4 inches in front of my knee.