What’s the point of a water box?

ACE

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This is something I don’t really get. My WM direct drive doesn’t have a water box. It just pulls straight from the fresh water tank and doesn’t even have a demand pump. I guess I could see how a water box might be less stressful on the pump if you’re not using a fresh water tank. Then again, pressure washers don’t have water boxes and seem to operate just fine. If you are using a fresh water tank why not bypass the water box and eliminate the need for a transfer pump? What am I missing?
 

Duane Oxley

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Originally, water boxes served the function of equalizing the water pressure to the pump, regardless of the pressure coming in from the faucet. The reduced the pressure to, in essence, no pressure. That way, the pump always had the same inlet pressure and chemical mixing, when used, was always the same. (This was because the pump pulled chemical only when slightly "starved". If it was being "force fed", it was not "starved" and therefore did not pull chemical.)

In some designs, the water box is basically a large heat sink. It protects the pump by, in essence, making the bypass much, much larger than a hose by itself would do. However, this is secondary in function to the above.

In heat exchange systems, the water box is actually a "heat reservoir / heat collector", instead of a "heat sink". In other words, it accumulates heat in order to increase system output temperature, instead of loses heat, in order to protect the pump. (There is a balance there, so it's not "either / or"... it actually does both at the same time. It collects heat. But it also protects the pump because of it's size, which causes the water temperature to rise gradually and not be as likely to suddenly "spike".

If you have a heat exchange system, replacing the water box is simply a mistake. It's integral to how the system works. And the system will not work as well, regarding heat generation without it.

In addition, some HX water boxes are "mix tanks". In other words, the cleaning chemical, if injected into the system (vs. being a pre-spray), is mixed in the box itself, or, just prior to the box, as the fresh water comes in, via a chemical injector valve (much like a HydroForce). Getting rid of a water box would also negate the mix capability that the box provides.
 

ACE

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Interesting….
But I have a HE machine the WM rebel. It does not bypass any water and has last step chemical injection. I’m thinking of setting it up with a water tank. Could I bypass the water box without losing anything in that case?
 

Duane Oxley

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I'm not familiar with the design of that system. But my guess is that you'd lose some heat. Why? Because most likely, the location of the box is in a "warm" location, intentionally, so that it's either gaining heat passively, or losing as little as possible.
 

joe harper

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I believe the WM reble has a sensor that regulates the exhaust diverter to maintain temps..?
 

Jonee

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I too had a white magic...if I remember right , Mike told me they do have a bypass, but instead of dumping in the waste tank like the old Prochems, it just diverts the water to a large loop and acts in that part of the circuit like a postive displacement pump setup.
 

ACE

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Yes, the WM Rebel uses a exhaust diverter and does not bypass any water. I went through the machine and replaced everything as needed. The testing I did showed good performance for a small machine but it was hard to tell what the machine could do because it relies on vacuum to build heat and I did not have an air tight connection to the recovery tank when I was playing with it. White Magic is good stuff IMO.

I guess I’ll by a cheap transfer pump for it :x .
 

Bob Savage

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The water box is just another thing to go wrong.

You can hook direct to a fresh tank if your pressure pump is self-priming, which some are, and some aren't.

In regards to the heat buildup in the pump bypass when the wand is idle. I use a thermo relief valve that senses 140º, and opens to ground to spit out hot water. Simultaneously, cold fresh is re-entering the loop, and the process repeats.

No water box, no over-heated pump loop, and no pump to feed your pump.
 
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A design flaw in most truckmounts is putting the pressure pump high on the machine. Prochem only recently changed this on some of their models.


Thanks,
Lee
 

rwcarpet

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bob vawter said:
im looking for a couple SS water boxes....
if anyone has them......

Bawb.......do you really need SS? Check out Northern Tools for the plastic tanks.....any size and shape. I used one on my Powermatic.
 

ACE

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rwcarpet said:
bob vawter said:
im looking for a couple SS water boxes....
if anyone has them......

Bawb.......do you really need SS? Check out Northern Tools for the plastic tanks.....any size and shape. I used one on my Powermatic.

That's a great idea. I need to replace the water box on my powermatic soon. I woud love to see a picture of how you did it.
 
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Some municipal water sysems require a positive air gap to prevent chemical injection from backing up to water supply.
A float valve in the water tank serves this purpose.

also solves pump bypass problem.

This is the reason we use water tanks.

Have a Happy New Year,Judson
 

bob vawter

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ya i KNOW there are PLASTIC boxes available......
but.........Steamgenies quality would be deminished...so.. i'll ante up the $$$$ for the Stainless.....
BTW....some of ya's are missing the point of the holding box.
 

Bob Savage

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Bob,

You can purchase stainless water boxes from any pressure washing supplier for around $50.

I've got a few laying around here.
 

Duane Oxley

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Lee Stockwell said:
A design flaw in most truckmounts is putting the pressure pump high on the machine. Prochem only recently changed this on some of their models.


Thanks,
Lee

It's only a "flaw" if the pump is a plunger pump. Piston pumps can generate and maintain enough vacuum to self- prime, up to a point. As long as that "point" is not exceeded, all is well.

BTW... Even though the literature says otherwise, some plunger pumps can and do self- prime when new.
 

Duane Oxley

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Lee Stockwell said:
Design the frame for a lower mount and then any pump can be used.

Yeah, I know. It's more "versatile", in terms of accomodating different kinds of pumps, like this:

DSCN2054b.jpg

(Note the Cat 290 in this...)
DSCN2045.jpg


(Note the 3CP plunger pump in this one...)
DSCN2145.jpg


But using a piston pump like a Cat 290, this works very well:
DSCN1257.jpg
 

Duane Oxley

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bob vawter said:
DUane...is that a 47 dual splash?

Yep. That one is powered by a 30 Kohler Command Pro.

We recently changed from Tuthill to Roots, so that we could go with DSL blowers. They're standard now on all models (36, 45, and 47 so far), except the entry- level basic "Predator".

Connecting the front and rear together and putting a valve on the outlet (with a cap, for safe- keeping...) just seems like the way to go, with DSL's...
 
T

The Magician

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Water boxes help when you have low water pressure source. Rarely run out of water.
The older Wm's used to dump into the fresh water tanks.
 

rwcarpet

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ACE said:
rwcarpet said:
bob vawter said:
im looking for a couple SS water boxes....
if anyone has them......

Bawb.......do you really need SS? Check out Northern Tools for the plastic tanks.....any size and shape. I used one on my Powermatic.

That's a great idea. I need to replace the water box on my powermatic soon. I woud love to see a picture of how you did it.

I'll try some pic's.....

I can't get them to load....
 

Art Kelley

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ACE said:
This is something I don’t really get. My WM direct drive doesn’t have a water box. It just pulls straight from the fresh water tank and doesn’t even have a demand pump. I guess I could see how a water box might be less stressful on the pump if you’re not using a fresh water tank. Then again, pressure washers don’t have water boxes and seem to operate just fine. If you are using a fresh water tank why not bypass the water box and eliminate the need for a transfer pump? What am I missing?

I had that same question when I ran both the WM DD and my Steam Genie. The SG didn't have a fresh water tank and I was spoiled by having one in my WM. In order to have a fresh tank, I filled a 55 gal drum (which would dump over sometimes flooding my van while I drove) and I had to hook up a seperate pump that filled the SG water box. A $300 contraption with my ridiculous wiring running from the cigarette lighter and multiple breaks with fuses and electric tape (don't ask). I always thought how stupid is this: pumping water so my SG pump could pump water. I still don't see the point of the water box.
 

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