White Magic challenges

[B&BGaryC]

Re: Everyone I met at Connections was very nice... except

The white magic I use was bought from them before I started working there. The story I heard was that they didn't know that WM service and tech support was lacking when they sold us the unit. It is also put together differently than any other machine they sell or have sold. This makes troubleshooting difficult.

However, since I bought a bayco valve set at 15 Hg, 2 1/2 in hose and a high flow wand, any time the machine has trouble I'm told it's the upgrades. Right now I am having some sort of pump issue. Water is circulating in the system constantly, it's over working the pumps and I feel like I'm not getting the right amount of flow at the wand. Every now and again the flow shuts down to a trickle, then it will pick back up. I'm just giving Micah a hard time because the mechanic who works there (One of the best) is wildly against modifications, at it seems he has given up on trying to find out what is going wrong with my machine and would rather tell me I need to buy a new machine and quit bringing my machine in, or I need to get rid of my modifications and that will fix every problem I am having.

They really are a great bunch of guys, and I don't mean any disrespect, I just wish more effort would be put into diagnosing the problem, and that their mechanic would think outside the box a little to try and come up with a creative solution.

The motor runs strong, in fact, it's a brand new engine. The blower runs great. It starts and it runs well. If the machine starts, the motor is good, and the blower is good, not to mention the heat exchangers are putting out heat, the machine is still good to go. It's only at 2000 hours, just because it has mystery problems doesn't mean it's time for a new machine, it's time to get creative and find a solution, even if it means bypassing some "features" white magic decided to put in there.

As far as WM tech support, it took me 2 hours to find a working number for them, and they couldn't even get somebody on the phone to tell me what kind of motor oil to put in the kholer engine.

As you know, WM gauges don't read unless water is running. If I want to know what my pressure is at, I have to key the wand or pull the relief. Same with temperature gauge. I was shining everything up, had wiped every surface in the van and cleaned the panel of the truck and decided to soak my wand in vinegar. After the soak I was going to give it a good high pressure spray down, so I decided to bump my pressure up to 700 or 800 lbs (I know, not really that high). I turned the pressure up, and started spraying and the pressure dropped off to a trickle. After shutting the machine off, and checking all the connections and seeing that my hoses were still indeed connected, I started the machine again. Still no water. Then I realized I had accidentally turned off my fresh water in pump while cleaning the machine. I turned it on and continued spraying, tried adjusting the pressure, but as I turned the knob to add more pressure, it stayed at a constant 700 lbs and dropped to 500 lbs when I pulled the trigger. After that incident the gauges started reading constant. I turned the machine down to the 350 lbs I usually clean with and it just didn't seem like it was doing anything, so I bumped it to 400-500, but just didn't seem like it was the same, and the carpets felt sticky right before they dried, which is not usual. It would also act like it was running out of water and I would have to turn the machine off. When I opened up the water box (On top of machine, stainless steel opens up with wing-nuts) the water inside the water box was boiling. After it stopped boiling and bubbling back up the system I could start it and clean again. Finally as I was finishing the job my machine started seeming like it was working just fine, and I felt like I was giving everything a good flushing. When I came out there was water shooting everywhere, and a mist was flowing 6-8 feet out the back of my van. It was coming from the coupler for the vibration dampener which was blowing out. I brought it in and Morgan replaced the coupler, we started it and I told him it was still recycling water. He checked a pop-off valve, and it was stuck, he put it in a vise and banged on it for half hour, and then brought me out and said my machine was fixed and to go away. When I started the machine up the next day to do my job the gauges were still reading like water was recycling, and though I didn't have to shut the machine down, it seemed like I wasn't getting the right flow or really flushing the carpets. He suggested that I pull apart the pop-off valve and make sure it wasn't stuck open again, but I haven't been back in the shop yet (except to show Doug-D the machine and our shop)

Gary, Micah's boss might have sold the line at one time, but it's hard for me to imagine not servicing a unit, I'm willing to bet Micah would even service an EZ.

What is the full story?

Gary,
I feel for the mechanic, he knows in his heart some biger vacuum hose or a better relief valve isn't causing any issues, but he's befuddled looking at the plumbing of a WM, it is an interesting maze of hoses and logic, and if he says the tech support is limited at WM, what can you say....it's just a challenge a superior mechanic can overcome, but it's gonan cost a few bucks in the mean time.

Tell us more about your pump issue, when does it do it, when does it not?

John Olson" data-source="" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

Hey Gary let me get this straight. You ran it out of water and now the pressure drops when you pull the trigger right? You Burnt your high pressure seals. Put a seal kit in.

Where do I get a seal kit? If I just say "put me a seal kit" to my distributor will he know what I'm talking about?

 

[John Olson]

Well re-reading your post(s) you have more problems then just that but the pressure drop off when you pull the trigger sounds like your seals since you said you ran it out of water. What concerns me is you say your water box is "boiling" which is also bad on your seals but is a different problem if it is dumping that much hot water back in the water box which would be a thermastat/divertor problem?

It is also possible your unloader is having issues but based on you running it out of water I would have them pull the head of the pump and check the seals.

Did you tell them you ran it out of water and kept trying to run it?

If it is the seals don't feel to bad we replaced 2 sets of seals today and it is the second set for both guys in less then a year AND they are hot and dry seals. You would think after the first $250+ they would run to the machine to figure out why they have no water then keep triggering the wand thinking water is suddenly gonna start flowing again :?

 

[bob vawter]

John sez:
"Well re-reading your post(s) you have more problems then just that"

yes he COULD lose a few pounds...too!

 

[Bruce Humphrey]

John sez:
"Well re-reading your post(s) you have more problems then just that"

yes he COULD lose a few pounds...too!

:shock:

 

[B&BGaryC]

John Olson" data-source="" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

Did you tell them you ran it out of water and kept trying to run it?

I didn't keep trying to run it, I shut it off, checked the connections and started it again, once it still didn't work then I realized I had the fresh water pump in switched off.

Yes I told them I did that and they didn't seem too alarmed. I thought it was a bad thing too. I figured that's what broke it but they didn't seem to think that or they weren't listening because they think it's all in my head.

My philosophy is that if the machine isn't running exactly how it should be I should take a "stitch in time saves nine" approach and have the minor problem looked at before it turns into a major problem. Having this attitude gets me ignored a lot when I bring it in to have it looked at. I will bring it in, say it's acting funny, get sent away and then on my next job I'll have something explode and bring it in to have the blow out fixed. I'm not crazy, I know when my machine is acting funny.

Now here's the kicker: Half way through my job today everything normalized and the machine started running exactly as it should. Soft fluffy dry carpet, clean carpet, pressure and flow seem great, AND!!! - The gauges are no longer reading constant, but only read when I open the valve or key the wand.

Now I don't know what to think.... Could the seals have re-seated themselves?

 

[John Olson]

No. Burnt Seals are burnt seals. They do not fix themselves so if no pressure drop then that wasn't a problem.

I think you have gremlins. :mrgreen: Seriously though I think you do have Gremlins. Ask some of the older Hydramaster owners about them. They are pissing lil' buggers...

 

[Bob Savage]

You could also have some blockage somewhere in the pressure system after the pump either in the hoses, fittings, HX, QC's, etc., or, where the fresh water comes into the pump, from what you described. If there is blockage your pressure will read OK but when you key the wand you aren't getting enough flow, and the bottom drops out.

I found a good way to trouble-shoot this type of problem is to install a QC right at the pump where the high pressure line leaves the pump. Then when you want to trouble-shoot the pressure system, you first disconnect the high pressure line leaving the pump and temporarily install a test line there and run it to your wand.

If you get good pressure and flow after keying the wand for several minutes, it's NOT the pump, or the fresh water system. If you don't get good pressure/flow, it's either the fresh water or the pump.

If it still isn't fixed, go from there, disconnecting before the HX and test, disconnecting after the HX, and test, etc.

You'll find it.

 

[B&BGaryC]

You know John, I would like to take this opportunity to let you know how much respect I have for you. Even after all the things I have said about your religion, and it could be perceived that (or factual that) I was disrespectful to your wife in the violet flame thread (it's been a while) you still go out of your way to help me. I would like to say thank you for your help. You're a good guy. I'll put you in the same class as my Grandpa. Class act, all the way, even if he didn't understand the Bible.

 

[John Olson]

Gary?? WTF are you talking about? :? Puple Flame? Sounds gay....and my wife was in there? hmmmm Guess she was trying to save you from your abomination (just kidding) I don't talk religion so you two have fun in your gay flame thread or whatever you called it
I am always willing to help though I don't care about your religion ot politics just the color of your money (kidding) (sorta)

 

[B&BGaryC]

It's the famous "Violet Flame Bird Room Material" thread that started the rubber room on this board. It was the longest thread in MB history and according to the legend Bawb got a trophy of... "half of a horse" ...The back half!

You can look it up if you care to...

 

[John Olson]

Lora explained it to me. So YOUR crazy Gary!

I'm going to stay out of the rubber room so you two can have that just between you girls :mrgreen: (just teasin' ya you know that right?)

 

[Greenie]

Gary your best suppliers are very balanced normal logical people, they aren't clouded or biased by one religious angle or another, but rather tolerate all and try to learn a bit from each.

 

[Bob Foster]

That mustabin LiSa on Greenie puter.

 

[Greenie]

We have even been known to tolerate Canadians.