Larry Capitoni (meAt) and I were having a conversation about SoapFree the other day. Larry seemed to think I could get the same result from soft water. Would someone smarter than me explain to me what is in Soap Free that makes it a great residential pre-spray/rinse?
Why does SoapFree work?
- Thread starter Chris A
- Start date
Dolly Llama
Number 5
Chris, let me clarify, I said I "think" it's the same/similar as Procyon.
Which as I understand it, is little more than a water conditioning agent.
(reduces surface tension)
STPP (?)
It's a large component in most detergents...they just leave out the surfactants = "soap" free
..L.T.A.
Which as I understand it, is little more than a water conditioning agent.
(reduces surface tension)
STPP (?)
It's a large component in most detergents...they just leave out the surfactants = "soap" free
..L.T.A.
Blue Monarch
Supportive Member
I read an article a long time ago about STPP. Wish I would have saved it.
Anyway, from what I remember, it's used in the food industry to bind several things to water in food products. Same deal in carpet fibers is my guess.
Anyway, from what I remember, it's used in the food industry to bind several things to water in food products. Same deal in carpet fibers is my guess.
R
R W
Guest
Can't tell you why it works, but it works. I can tell the difference when my rinse water is plain or mixed with Procyon. I've used it for about 20 years now (Procyon), and I'm sure it's about the same as Soapfree. It's got to be the water conditioning abilities of the main ingredient, sodium, that assists in the cleaning.
Brian R
Member
Yea I just can't get over how well Procyon worked.
Could use it on anything and the crap in the carpet just melted away.
Expensive....if they made it more readily available...they would probably be a little more prominent.
Could use it on anything and the crap in the carpet just melted away.
Expensive....if they made it more readily available...they would probably be a little more prominent.
R
R W
Guest
Brian Robison said:
Yep....it's up to $99 for 25#'s, but it goes a long way, especially if you run a water softener.
Ken Snow
RIP
make it yourself for less than 10% of the cost.
gary mackay
Member
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2007
- Messages
- 226
I'm running Zoom from steam pro's as a rinse & I thought it was the same as Procyon but cheaper.
Mikey P
Administrator
Soap Free has some Powdered Peroxide in it.
does Procyon?
does Procyon?
Ken Snow said:
Are you going to let the cat out of the bag as to what is in your Secret Sauce?
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http://www.salt-lake-city-carpet-cleaning.com/
http://www.kalispellcarpetcleaning.com/
http://www.missoulagreencarpetcleaning.com/
Brian R
Member
I was using Prolon....or whatever...for a while...supposed to be the same but different.
I don't think it was as good.
I don't think it was as good.
Shawn Forsythe
RIP
Mikey P said:
Procyon is straight Sodium Tripolyphosphate.
MasterBlend's Soap Free is quite a bit more complex, as it is designed to be more effective than STPP alone.. In fact, Soap Free has more in common with traditional in-tank emulsifier detergents type products, with the exception of an actual detergent surfactant (which is the whole point behind using a "soap-free" product). MasterBlend's Soap Free also contains Sodium Percarbonate (affectionately known to BBS readers as "powdered Peroxide")
Soap free also has a component of traditional cleaners that Procyon is desperately missing, and that is a Corrosion Inhibitor. STPP just loves reactive metals like brass. Using straight STPP without a corrosion inhibitor is no problem for us suppliers, as we make extra money when your brass fittings, your disconnects and your pressure valves fail ina fraction of the time they usually last.
But, if you are a conscientious cleaner who has limited financial resources, or you just plain like to spend your money on other things, you may want to think twice about using home brews or products that have corrosive components & don't also contain corrosion inhibitors. 8)As to the original question.
If your goal is to rinse surfactants from carpet fibers (e.g. your detergent prespray), then Soap Free is not going to have much advantage over water. If you want to rinse better than plain water, then use a rinse aid product like Hydramaster's Clear Water Rinse. It will make water rinse better, so you'll move faster, and use less water (enhancing drying, less over-wetting & less wicking, if that is your issue).
If however, your goal is cleaning, then MB Soap Free will run circles around plain water. The builder (STPP), the Percarbonate, and few other actives will actually clean soils, rather than just trying to rinse water soluble ones.
Ken Snow
RIP
of course not and I agree with Shawn 100%
Dolly Llama
Number 5
Thanks Shawn
I was hoping you'd add your knowledge
if you would, give a us a general idea how long the sodium perc will be effective after mixing?
example... will what's left over in the sprayer still be effective on the next job?
(assuming it will be in the sprayer for over an hour)
Pre-spray, clean, and travel time to next job
and are the guys that use in-line sprayers loosing all the effectiveness of the sodium perc by the last job of the day?
(assuming they mix in the morning and one tank full lasts the whole day)
..L.T.A.
I was hoping you'd add your knowledge
if you would, give a us a general idea how long the sodium perc will be effective after mixing?
example... will what's left over in the sprayer still be effective on the next job?
(assuming it will be in the sprayer for over an hour)
Pre-spray, clean, and travel time to next job
and are the guys that use in-line sprayers loosing all the effectiveness of the sodium perc by the last job of the day?
(assuming they mix in the morning and one tank full lasts the whole day)
..L.T.A.
sweendogg
Member
So when is Hagopian going to start selling Franchise Rights across the country? Sounds like they have the plan developed. 8)
Shawn Forsythe
RIP
Larry,
How long the percarbonate is effective is dependent on a few things. But mostly its going to depend on the temperature of the water. You start mixing it up with really hot water in the chemical jug, and it will visibly effervesce, as it is giving up its oxygen. That is why its best to only mix what you are going to use on that one job.
The product was designed to be an in-tank cleaner. It is carpet cleaners themselves who have pushed it as a prespray, because they liked it that way. One has to understand that there are upside and downsides to using as a prespray. Longer dwell time with percarbonate product is definitely beneficial. So using as a prespray can have an upside, as your dwell time is fairly long. The downside is that surfactant bearing presprays are vastly superior at soil emulsification during the preconditioning phase of carpet cleaning.
Using as an in-tank cleaner has the benefit of "superheating" the product in the machine's heating system. This also is a plus for the rapid release of oxygen.
However, when using a percarbonate containing product with a Hydroforce, you may have problems. The releasing oxygen has a tendency to retard the venturi mechanism in the Hydroforce at elevated temps. So you have to either turn down your TM temperature, or at least help things allong by mixing the product with barely warm water in the supply jug.
As to the original question..... Try to mix only for each job, or close to it. However, understand that the product is not "ruined" by premixing hours in advance. This is simply because the percarbonate is only a portion of the "active" components. Think of the percarbonate a s sort of a "supercharger boost".
Where SoapFree really shines is in the marketing of the product as a non-soil attracting cleaner that some end users will be amenable to. For that niche purpose it is one of the best in that genre, as it cleans better than most of its direct competition, AND it does so while having protection that any chemical needs that might potentially attack reactive metals. It also is 5th generation compatible.
Procyon essentially created a product class with the claims that it makes. It doesn't fit everyone's needs, but it perfectly fits a segment of the market. MB Soap Free just improved on the idea by advancing the cleaning and protection aspect, while still retaining the product class key characteristics (no detergents).
How long the percarbonate is effective is dependent on a few things. But mostly its going to depend on the temperature of the water. You start mixing it up with really hot water in the chemical jug, and it will visibly effervesce, as it is giving up its oxygen. That is why its best to only mix what you are going to use on that one job.
The product was designed to be an in-tank cleaner. It is carpet cleaners themselves who have pushed it as a prespray, because they liked it that way. One has to understand that there are upside and downsides to using as a prespray. Longer dwell time with percarbonate product is definitely beneficial. So using as a prespray can have an upside, as your dwell time is fairly long. The downside is that surfactant bearing presprays are vastly superior at soil emulsification during the preconditioning phase of carpet cleaning.
Using as an in-tank cleaner has the benefit of "superheating" the product in the machine's heating system. This also is a plus for the rapid release of oxygen.
However, when using a percarbonate containing product with a Hydroforce, you may have problems. The releasing oxygen has a tendency to retard the venturi mechanism in the Hydroforce at elevated temps. So you have to either turn down your TM temperature, or at least help things allong by mixing the product with barely warm water in the supply jug.
As to the original question..... Try to mix only for each job, or close to it. However, understand that the product is not "ruined" by premixing hours in advance. This is simply because the percarbonate is only a portion of the "active" components. Think of the percarbonate a s sort of a "supercharger boost".
Where SoapFree really shines is in the marketing of the product as a non-soil attracting cleaner that some end users will be amenable to. For that niche purpose it is one of the best in that genre, as it cleans better than most of its direct competition, AND it does so while having protection that any chemical needs that might potentially attack reactive metals. It also is 5th generation compatible.
Procyon essentially created a product class with the claims that it makes. It doesn't fit everyone's needs, but it perfectly fits a segment of the market. MB Soap Free just improved on the idea by advancing the cleaning and protection aspect, while still retaining the product class key characteristics (no detergents).
Loren Egland
Member
Interesting stuff Shawn. Thanks.
I am probably the only person on this board that uses Steam Way Formula A regularly. I don't know what all is in it, but it does clean good and has not caused me resoiling problems (40 years using A) and have been told it is good for my equipment.
Do you have any idea what is in Formula A?
Loren
I am probably the only person on this board that uses Steam Way Formula A regularly. I don't know what all is in it, but it does clean good and has not caused me resoiling problems (40 years using A) and have been told it is good for my equipment.
Do you have any idea what is in Formula A?
Loren
Lefty724
Member
So, for all you Masterblend Soapfree users?
Are you using it as a prespray?
Or rinsing with MB Soapfree after you have put down your prespray?
Are you using it as a prespray?
Or rinsing with MB Soapfree after you have put down your prespray?
Jim Nazarian
Member
floorguy_724 said:
I use Soapfree as my prespray & rinse, if dealing with urine or wool I use Judsons PS & rinse with Soapfree (I use a Spraymaster & turn down the temp with any prespray I use)
Mikey P
Administrator
I am on my 3rd 5 gal bucket of Soap Free.
I have been running it through the machine.
While I have a hard time convincing myself that pre sprayed and agitated carpets are coming cleaner with SF, I do notice that that un pre spray areas come cleaner much better compared to just soft water
and the Judson Juice rinses out much better as well.
I have been running it through the machine.
While I have a hard time convincing myself that pre sprayed and agitated carpets are coming cleaner with SF, I do notice that that un pre spray areas come cleaner much better compared to just soft water
and the Judson Juice rinses out much better as well.
Lefty724
Member
So would it be safe to run the SF through my machine and still use Extreme Clean or Powerburst as my prespray? Sorry for the newb? , just didn't want to start a new thread! (I'll just try an Hi-jack this one :mrgreen: )
sweendogg
Member
Shawn, sounds like you have a length post coming if you choose to answer the questions.. Good luck man.. and remember when your fingers start to cramp.. just take a break! :shock:
Lefty724
Member
Mikey P said:
So, you rinse the Judson Juice out with SF? Wow....I have a lot of this stuff laying around, might have to use it!
Mikey P
Administrator
Yes I do.
for the past few months I have been boosting my Redline with Judson Juice.
if you think about it, it has every thing you want in a booster, Brighteners/Oxidizers & Solvency.
for the past few months I have been boosting my Redline with Judson Juice.
if you think about it, it has every thing you want in a booster, Brighteners/Oxidizers & Solvency.
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