Zipper, Zipper Jr, or Orbot?

[Steve Manier]

I wish I could have made it to Connections to compare and demo these but I couldnt. I have watched all the videos and read all the post and still cant decide. There doesnt seem to be many post from cleaners who use the Zippers regularly except from the inventor Eric. I need something fast for heavily soiled CGD that needs to be flushed or at least cleaned up better than a Cimex alone can do . Seems like everytime I try to flush with a regular glided wand the carpet looks like shit when it dries. I have an RX 20 also, but only like it for residential. Im getting pretty good results with the Cimex but deep down I know I could get some of these heavily soiled CGD carpets cleaner with another methood. I was almost sold on the Orbot till all this talk about the Zipper started. One thing I dont like about the low moisture method is I dont know what the hell to say when they ask "where does the dirty water go?" Even tho I know the Cimex is a good methood for cleaning CGD I really dont like using it when we are being watched, wich seems to be happening more and more. So is this Zipper all its cracked up to be or is it just another tool thats going to sit in my garage? Not sure about wich one to get either. I'm kind of leaning towards the larger model because I like the features better but is it worth 1k more? We are doing larger open areas with a few tight spots in between. My TM is a Powerclean Freedom 47. Please help me decide. Thanks

Steve

 

[Mikey P]

N idea on the Zippy having not used it but look for it to be a "fast" tool.

It will be slower than your standard wand.


If you want to actually remove more soil than yes a cotton pad under the HOS Orbot is your best best



HWE then a 175/cotton pad follow up is even better but much slower.

 

[Erik]

I have been cleaning carpet for a long time. I currently use a ti wand, which I still use on smaller residential jobs.
We clean a lot of large commercial jobs- churches, schools, conference centers, resturants, etc..... Using a wand, your average sq/ft cleaned per hour is 1,200-1,500 sq/ft. Using the Zipper, the average is 2,000-2,400 sq/ft per hour, with much better results and faster dry times, and my body feels a lot better when I'm finished with the job.

For any bonnet or encap cleaning, the HOS machine is a "one of a kind"- great balance, great ergonomic handle, all around quality tool. It puts the Cimex or any other bonnet tool to shame. I was very impressed with all of the features and the engineering.

 

[Mikey P]

I guess I was wrong.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I sure like the looks of the Zipper and Jr, but I've never used either so I can't speak to how well it cleans but I'm guessing pretty well.

I'd say if you want or the project dictates HWE I'd go with Eric's babies!

If you're wanting to go low moisture, the Orbot is the tool!

 

[truckmount girl]

The idea is to use BOTH methods. When you low moisture clean for a long time (Cimex, bonnet, etc.) dirt gets pushed DEEP into the carpet/backing and when you go and give it a HWE rinse, your chances of wicking and/or streaking are high.

That's why you want to Prespray, then scrub (with whatever scrubbing tool you have or choose) then give a thorough rinse (with whatever rinsing tool you have or choose).

If you've been Cimexing this job for a long time, it may require a couple cleanings to get the dirt from the base of the nap. Hopefully it has not filtered down past the backing or you are in for a more complicated process; being very careful that your prespray and rinse steps never penetrate the backing....or you will have perpetual wicking issues until the carpet is replaced.

As far as your choice of scrubbing and/or rinsing tools, there are many to choose from and it's best to consider your business model as a whole, then choose the tool that will fit your unique situation best. If I used a portable and focused on residential I would pick different tools than if I owned a Vortex and cleaned mainly large commercial.

Many manufacturers and distributors will allow you to demo machines so you can get a feel for how you like them on a few actual jobs, or if you are friendly with your local guys, ask around and find people who might let you try their stuff.

The Zippers are fairly new, so not a lot out there yet, but Erik is a really nice guy and I'm sure he'd work out a trial or demo period if you were serious about one of his machines.

Take care,
Lisa

 

[Padden McFadden]

OP with cotton pads is tailer made for soiled commercial. you'll pull tons of soil out, and the carpets will look better when dry. they will love you for it.

You do need Change pads offten, so stock up 50 or so. Pad capping with cottons is slower then straight encapping. depending on conditions you'll be around 500-1000 SF per hour, You can up your production rates by using glad pads, to 700-1500 SF per hour. They hold 3 times the dirt so you don't need to change pads as much. If they want to know were's the dirt , show them a soiled pad.

 

[TimP]

I've never used a zipper so I don't really understand it however just from looking at it I don't like the design.

If you're having trouble cleaning a place then you should use your cimex to pre scrub the place with a well formulated preconditioner, step up to something stronger if you have to like powerburst/powerstrike/extreme clean or something. Then extract with a high flow wand. A zipper may be faster but I've never used one.

In my opinion after looking at pictures of the zipper, the jets should be on the rear vacuum wand behind it instead of the front so that when you pull back you get a wet stroke followed by a dry stroke instead of a dry stroke followed by a wet stroke. Or you could put in on the other side of the front port for pushing. That way you can push into your cleaning. Anyways this is what would make sense to this BDCC'er. I still think you'd have to scrub nasty carpet with the zipper cause a glide aint gonna give much of any agitation not even a slot glide. I think you can get away with 1 pass with a zipper with a good vac and not feel guilty for no dry passes and it be easier on your arm/back for large commercial if it was redesigned but that's just me. Also I think you're gonna still have to trim in a place with a regular wand but that's just what I think from looking at it.

I'll just stick with a regular wand it makes more sense to me.

 

[truckmount girl]

Actually, though I've only played with them at trade shows, the Zippers are surprisingly nimble and the design is well thought out and build quality top notch. it is designed to not require a dry pass and be effective on both the forward and backward pull to save time.

I would try one before dismissing it.

Take care,
Lisa

 

[ruff]

Gees Tim,
You sound like that commercial: I am not a Dr. but I played one on TV.
Before you trash a product by just looking at it, at least give it a fair try first!

People put a lot of hard work and passion into making a products and they deserve, at least, a fair chance!

I'd trust Lisa.

 

[TimP]

Gees Tim,
You sound like that commercial: I am not a Dr. but I played one on TV.
Before you trash a product by just looking at it, at least give it a fair try first!

People put a lot of hard work and passion into making a products and they deserve, at least, a fair chance!

I'd trust Lisa.

That's why I said I haven't tried it and told everyone that I'm limited to what I see. And I'm sure I'm not the only one who has looked at it and thought the same thing. It's right out in the open so that everyone knows the limitations of what I'm saying. It's not like I said I used it and it's crap, and in reality just looked at it. It was based solely on what it looks like and not on actual usage and I'm not trying to hide it what so ever. Those who have used it are much more credible when it comes to how the wand works compared to me. Because I do understand that using it in the real world is different than looking at it trying to figure out how it works and I'm sure others reading figure it out too. Also I don't know what all Erik went through to get to this design, he may of tried something along the lines of what I think would make sense and found for some reason it wasn't the best design. I was just stating what I believe to be flaws in the design. It's quite simple, I don't get why you'd have a dry stroke first, then a wet stroke. Or if you're pushing the wand the solution after the front wand then I can understand a dry stroke after but that's just me but that first wand bar isn't sucking up the spray from the jets well in my opinion. The only reason I can understand the design is that you may want it to make it so you can get closer to the edge of a wall or something instead of having jets on the outside of it, and to get those wheels on there. Anyways the design doesn't make much sense to me as to how it's supposed to work as advertised. I wonder if someone changed the order of the wand bars and jets like I was saying, how much more efficient it would be?? Just food for thought. Just take it for what it is and get over it.

It's not like I was saying oh it will never work it's a piece of junk never buy one. I was saying it don't make sense to me and I'll stick with my regular wand because it makes sense to me. There is nothing wrong with having an "opinion" and further more I am open minded and would try it if I had a need for it and since I don't do large commercial jobs regular enough to warrant buying one or even consider buying one. Also if someone can't take a little criticism on this board then they are too thin skinned and probably shouldn't be on here.

 

[Steve Manier]

Thanks for the replies and confusing me even more. LOL.

When I said "I need something fast" I mean I need to buy something soon. Although something that cleans fast is good too, I'm more concerned about quality. They claim up to 3k ft an hour on the Cimex and I'm lucky to get 1k ft an hour.

My problem is I dont want to drop 3k on yet another useless tool that will sit in my garage with the rest of them. Again, I am not knocking the Cimex. Its a great machine to have. My situation is that I'm doing several government buildings and we get "babysat" for security reasons. And sometimes I feel like a hack and feel guilty for just srubbing and running. We do vacuum the hell outa these places before we clean but some are so loaded up that I think a good flushing will be be better.
If the Zipper is gonna be like a wand I will just use the wand I have wich is a glided westpac 2 jet. I just dont want the "ugly wicking" that sometimes comes along with CDG and HWE. I also bought a Cobb wand over a year ago that sits in my garage collecting dust because I'm more comfortable with the other wand. I used Cobbs wand once and put it away for a year and tried to use it again the other day and the sob wont spray now. Maybe I should fix it and use it for these jobs??? Hell I dont know I just want to use a friggen wand and have no fear of wicking.

Hey Lisa, I like the idea of a trial use and if it works I can be the "So Cal Shill" for Erik 8)

Steve

 

[TimP]

If the Zipper is gonna be like a wand I will just use the wand I have wich is a glided westpac 2 jet. I just dont want the "ugly wicking" that sometimes comes along with CDG and HWE. I also bought a Cobb wand over a year ago that sits in my garage collecting dust because I'm more comfortable with the other wand. I used Cobbs wand once and put it away for a year and tried to use it again the other day and the sob wont spray now. Maybe I should fix it and use it for these jobs??? Hell I dont know I just want to use a friggen wand and have no fear of wicking.

Hey Lisa, I like the idea of a trial use and if it works I can be the "So Cal Shill" for Erik 8)

Steve

All I have to say is I may of identified a problem with your HWE. You should not have ugly wicking from doing HWE unless the backing is majorly soaked in some way with stuff to wick back. There are ways to take care of wicking with HWE.

1. Use a high flow hole glided wand with an angled jet manifold. Like the 14" cobb wand, modified TI or a greenhorn, or even a bently etc. The angle is going to help prevent your solution to get the backing as wet. A 2 jet wand from what I've seen point the solution directly down to the carpet. If that's what you insist upon using you need to back the pressure way down and do many more wet and dry strokes thus slowing you down. With a high flow wand and holed glide you can make fewer passes due to more solution to the carpet as well as more energy in the form of heat cause you aren't allowing the solution to cool in your lines. Also the holed glide will dry the carpet faster.

2. In my "opinion" wicking is usually caused by inadequate extraction meaning that with your 2 jet wand you may not be flushing properly hence I recommend a better wand as stated above.

3. Wicking can also be taken care of with faster drying. I may suggest you buy an airpath or two for those areas that truly have wicking. Although I have rarely seen this be a problem but possibly in certain areas in restaurants. I have a hall way in the local court house that wicks like a SOB but only in spots. It's on a wood sub floor and grease of some sort has saturated the wood. I've tried encaping and it hasn't fixed the problem.

4. A 4th suggestion is if you truly do have a wicking problem look at Pros Choice ARA (anti resoil agent) it may cost a bit but I hear it works really well.