Vortex replaced by a floor buffer

John G · Mar 28, 2014

Willy, you are a porty hack and I think your comments are little more than funny.

As to you guys not being able to read, View attachment 4316
I obviously did't have anyting to do with this, but NASA did and I laugh at ole cleaners sitting in their office chairs sharing opinions on what they little or nothing about, making sport of NASA and BEM protocols, like they are more educated and smarter.. laughable.

Willy P · Mar 28, 2014

GCCLee · Mar 28, 2014

John G said:
Willy, you are a porty hack and I think your comments are little more than funny.

As to you guys not being able to read, View attachment 4316
I obviously did't have anyting to do with this, but NASA did and I laugh at ole cleaners sitting in their office chairs sharing opinions on what they little or nothing about, making sport of NASA and BEM protocols, like they are more educated and smarter.. laughable.

And that test was done in comparison to HWE at the same exact time, or was this just YOUR agenda ?

A freakin Q tip R U Serious, bwahahhhaaaa Hilarious!

millbiller01 · Mar 28, 2014

Is there a better way, we as cleaners can actually test for levels of cleanliness on location? The ATP test is the only one I am familiar with, but if there are others, I'm all ears.

Steamin McFadden · Mar 28, 2014

John , let me just ask you this. Lets say I clean half a house (600) sf with trinity and figure I would use about 4 micro pads front and back. Then I clean the other half with a truck mount & rotovac. (equal soiling) Figure I would use about 20 or 30 gallons

With the TM & rotovac , I end up with about 20 or 30 gallons of black water, and 1 pound of sand , muck, hair, heavy debris, etc in my inline filter.

Contrast that with what ever dirt 4 micro pads can hold.

Do you belive your ATP test would show the OP side cleaner? And if so, wouldn't that only show that the test was flawed? Because everyone knows that 30 gallons of black water and 1 pound of gunk in the filter is holding way more filth then 4 micro pads. More then even 20 micros.

This is why I disregard the test, it conflicts with sound reason. I get that the trinity is "special" but it still is limited to what a pad can hold just like any other OP machine.

Desk Jockey · Mar 28, 2014

Interesting data but why are we trusting carpet cleaners for taking this data and not a independent testing lab?

ATP testing has been adopted by CIRI (Cleaning Industry Research Institute) for the new K-12 Standard for levels of cleanliness. So yes I believe ATP testing does have some validity and can be very helpful BUT banking everything on it?

I don't know, biofilms can throw your readings way off. Lots of variables can skew testing, age of pens, length of time out of refrigeration, length of time before pen is cracked and put into luminometer, cross contamination in handling of the swab, many things.

Mikey P · Mar 28, 2014

You just don't understand.

GeeeAus · Mar 28, 2014

I can't understand d what all the fuss is about?

It's a disc machine. There are lots of variations of disc machine and I hear good stuff about the OP action machines for reducing pile twist over a disc that spins in one direction.

But to be honest, all this isn't as interesting as - say a lithium ion battery powered CRB with 4 brushes that lets me agitate and groom
In any plane I like. All 4 directions.

I think there is only so far the single disc machines floor contact area can really carry it.

It's a good tool, it's the best bit of kit I've bought in a while. And even though it doesn't have the advantages of nultidirectional agitation, it does give me similar access to similar jobs with little complexity and established pedigree.

OP is kinda costly too.

I wonder what really is to come - after - the single disc nachine? I think we've had a few false starts, but we'll get there.

Shorty · Mar 28, 2014

If the following was truly written by BEM Corp; then I feel that there is a need for their people to go back to school and learn proper grammar and spelling.

In my limited experience, I believe that I would have phrased it this way:

This carpet testing guideline was developed by BEM Corp; with the cooperation of, and field testing, as used by NASA at the NASA Glenn Research Center in Ohio.

I do not believe that anyone would have published that without it first being proof-read by a competent person to ensure it's accuracy, not only in truthfulness, but also for spelling and diction.

Sorry John G; but I think you've been given a lemon this time.

:very_drunk:

John G · Mar 28, 2014

The thing that is so funny on this bbs is this, this test can be purchased and used by all carpet cleaners, YET, the hwe crowd bashes, slams, makes fun of something they themselves could use and prove things to themselves.
Time after time I have said get your own tester and prove it to yourself, but no, either they are BD carpet cleaners who can't afford the test, or they did the test and didn't like the results.
However, AGAIN, ATP is there for all so if you are too cheap or lazy to test for yourself, then quit your bitchin' about what others have done.

Andy, only someone willing to learn will learn, your analogy simply doesn't apply to the method, if you listened instead of trying to find fault you wouldn't bother with those dumb analogies over and over, what you think as logical is really just a laziness that keeps you from finding a very SIMPLE answer, all for yourself.

Desk Jockey · Mar 28, 2014

John if you don't like this board, why are you here?

For someone that complains about this board and those that post on it, you sure frequent it a lot.

John G · Mar 28, 2014

Come on Richard, click on the replies/views tab, that is why I am here, Mikey starts the threads and keeps them going because those are some of the highest producing threads on his forum.
Don't be naive...LOL

To point out the bs, is natural for me, and I am not really very shy about it either.
You have a tester, use it and post your results....:`)

Desk Jockey · Mar 28, 2014

Give me your sampling protocol. When & where are you sampling the carpet.

We have (3) luminometers but they are Hygiena, not your brand. Although you know there can be discrepancy just with in the dozen or so meters commonly on the market.

Don't be naive...LOL

? Not naive, I just don't get it? So you're here to help traffic? To sell machines? To argue?

None of the above? All of the above?

bob vawter · Mar 28, 2014

actually the long threads remind me of everyone staring at a bad train wreck...
ya hate it....but ya jus gotta look............

Mikey P · Mar 28, 2014

However, AGAIN, ATP is there for all so if you are too cheap or lazy to test for yourself, then quit your bitchin' about what others have done.

Do I need a speedometer to know I'm going top fast?
Do I need a thermometer to know if it's hot or cold outside?
Do I need the Bible to know whats right and wrong?

Desk Jockey · Mar 28, 2014

Ummm knowing you.......uuuhhhhh.....ummm... maybe yes on the third one!

Actually you know............you just don't care. :lol:

Mikey P · Mar 28, 2014

I find it easier to believe in Peanut Butter than "real" fairy tails..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Distl71LbY0

Steamin McFadden · Mar 28, 2014

John G said:
Andy, only someone willing to learn will learn, your analogy simply doesn't apply to the method, if you listened instead of trying to find fault you wouldn't bother with those dumb analogies over and over, what you think as logical is really just a laziness that keeps you from finding a very SIMPLE answer, all for yourself.

John, I feel it's a perfect analogy to challenge the validity of the Atp test. And I felt a fair question to ask you. Rather than answer , you have to throw a fit, seems like I struck a nerve.?
I'll tell you what if you can get more then 2 people to agree with you that my above analogy is "dumb" I will never post my opinions regarding your OP machine ever again.

BTW You just lost what little respect I had left for you, A guy asks a fair question and your response is , I'm not willing to learn, the question is "dumb" and called me "lazy". All the while never bothering to respond to the point raised. You are a week debater, plain and simple. But that is just my opinion , I have no science to back that up.

Find more then 2 people to publically state they agree with you that my analogy is "dumb" and you will never hear from me again.

bob vawter · Mar 28, 2014

John's been a stiff necked stubbern doofus as long as he is old...
comes from wringing chicken necks as a kid........he has no soul!

Desk Jockey · Mar 28, 2014

Man you fookers can be rough!

Where is that yappy dog Mardie? Tighter than a clam now. :twisted:

Dolly Llama · Mar 28, 2014

i think Rich asked, but i didn't see an answer,..

were any other OP machines tested?
And if so, how did they fare against TM?

..L.T.A.

Lee Stockwell · Mar 28, 2014

The pictures posted in the middle of John's insults to me reek of fraud.

I'm sure John will claim they are actual microscopic pictures of real cleaning results.

I'm publicly calling BS. Prove it John. Duplicate those results and pix at a neutral site with peer review...

John G · Mar 28, 2014

Wow Lee, I didn't do those pictures, Joe Roberts did, I have my own, but usually don't post MY findings, i have NOTHING to prove to you Lee, users are proving it daily and I would imagine you would call all of them liars before getting off your backside and testing for yourself. Do something for yourself instead of sitting in your chair pretending to be my judge.

why would I test old OP's, do it yourself... good grief i have never met such a lazy bunch who have time to bitch but not test anything for themselves.. that is pathetic. you have a conqueror, YOU test it.

Andy, I would give you the same advice as I did Lee. you show up in all threads on all boards just looking for it, then pretend you were insulted, more childish than anything else.

hogjowl · Mar 28, 2014

bob vawter said:
John's been a stiff necked stubbern doofus as long as he is old...
comes from wringing chicken necks as a kid........he has no soul!

He proved that with the bent handle debacle.

GCCLee · Mar 28, 2014

John G said:
Wow Lee, I didn't do those pictures, Joe Roberts did, I have my own, but usually don't post MY findings, i have NOTHING to prove to you Lee, users are proving it daily and I would imagine you would call all of them liars before getting off your backside and testing for yourself. Do something for yourself instead of sitting in your chair pretending to be my judge.

why would I test old OP's, do it yourself... good grief i have never met such a lazy bunch who have time to bitch but not test anything for themselves.. that is pathetic. you have a conqueror, YOU test it.

Andy, I would give you the same advice as I did Lee. you show up in all threads on all boards just looking for it, then pretend you were insulted, more childish than anything else.

Just wanted to quote this so people could see what type of customer service you might end up dealing with in the future.

It's no longer about the cleaning at all! It has to do with your piss poor attitude as a business owner who likes to throw punches if he doesn't get his way.

Never in my life have I seen such disregard! You are completely friggin pshyco John G.

Lee Stockwell · Mar 28, 2014

John G said:
Wow Lee, I didn't do those pictures, Joe Roberts did, I have my own, but usually don't post MY findings, i have NOTHING to prove to you Lee, users are proving it daily and I would imagine you would call all of them liars before getting off your backside and testing for yourself. Do something for yourself instead of sitting in your chair pretending to be my judge.

why would I test old OP's, do it yourself... good grief i have never met such a lazy bunch who have time to bitch but not test anything for themselves.. that is pathetic. you have a conqueror, YOU test it.

Andy, I would give you the same advice as I did Lee. you show up in all threads on all boards just looking for it, then pretend you were insulted, more childish than anything else.

You deserve an Academy Award for playing stupid so well.

However you are NOT stupid, you know darn well what I asked you. Nowhere did I ask you to raise a finger to "test" my two OP machines. I well know their abilities and limitations. I'm sure you do too.

YOU claim credibility, obliquely, from NASA for a cleaning "test" that is deceptive as presented, and blatently incomplete.

I apologize for the widely observed custom of using various chairs as we use the computer. I didn't know that offended you.

All I'm asking is for you to redeem yourself a wee bit by subjecting your assertions to peer review and OPEN testing.

Shorty · Mar 28, 2014

Fourteen pages of too much :bull:

This is just too much :bullshit:

for the wun :stir:

downunder

Wun feels like wun is :hopeless:

and getting :barf:

&

of it all

John G · Mar 28, 2014

C.Lee, what a dork...

Lee, many of our users use what NASA deemed an appropriate test, all are free to test for themselves, and YOU above anyone knows I have preached that for many decades.
I asked others to do testing, no, all I got was opinions, now you too want to attack a test that the IICRC approves, CleanFax did articles on, BEM approves, NASA approves, but yet, that is not good enough for you as you read an article
that does not apply to % of removals testing but instead concentrates on variables using different disinfectants which you KNOW we don't use.

This test tells us what is left ON the fibers, not what is down on the bottom of the carpet, the pictures show exactly what the FIBERS look like before and after cleaning, use a microscope and try for yourself it is cheap and easy to do.
If the academy award is for stupid because I disagree with you, fine present to me.. but I do disagree for many reasons. but remember I at least did the testing, YOU didn't.

GCCLee · Mar 28, 2014

I wouldnt waste the spit on yur face!

Then again, lets have a drink bigz : )

Sent from da parking garage of dee detention center

GCCLee · Mar 28, 2014

And I would cram YOUR machine in yur azz nefore I ever recommended it to anyone!

Other vendors have my good graces

Scum bag

Sent from da parking garage of dee detention center

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