$100 to person who can solve this T/M problem...

[White-Magic rebuilder]

...It's getting the best of me and my dist. can't fix it at $65 an hour. Spent over a grand so $100 will be a value. Here is the problem. Hook up the unit and start to clean. Pull the trigger and it pressure is good for a millisecond and then the volume/stream/pressure drops like a portable. Pressure on the T/M gage panel continues to read 500 psi without dropping!
I've replaced all the q/d's. I've made sure there are no restrictions from the fresh water tank. The auxiliary hose on the front of the unit has good volume and heat. Now every so many trigger pulls (1 in 25 or so) I get full pressure and volume atw so I don't let go until I finish the room. Very aggravating and I don't want to pay my dist.any more for on the job training. So if you solve it I will send one person a hundred dollars!!!

Thanks,Rob Jr.

PS:60 hp/5 gpm catpump/3 heat exhanger unit/White Magic Triton problematic, not powermatic...

 

[Rob Lyon]

Check to see if your pressure regulator is bad.There may
be some air built up as well, but I am sure you checked
that already!!




All The Best, Rob

 

[White-Magic rebuilder]

Check to see if your pressure regulator is bad.There may
be some air built up as well, but I am sure you checked
that already!!




All The Best, Rob

Sorry for being dumb but how do I check to see if it is bad?
Thanks,Rob Jr.

 

[Rob Lyon]

Hey, Sorry I also forgot that the cat pump may need to
be rebuilt, I have seen obstructions do some damage
that sounds real familiar.




All The Best, Rob

 

[White-Magic rebuilder]

It's a new Cat pump and they did rebuild the unloader too.
Rob.

 

[cmaster]

Did you check for restrictions in the wand?

Q D on the wand. In line flter on wand. Jet screens on wand?

 

[White-Magic rebuilder]

Did you check for restrictions in the wand?

Q D on the wand. In line flter on wand. Jet screens on wand?

Several wands and ALL new Q/D's...

 

[truckmount girl]

Question, you've probably thought of this already....but does it do it with all of your other tools? If you hook up a short piece of solution hose directly to the machine do you still have problems?

Take care,
Lisa

 

[White-Magic rebuilder]

Question, you've probably thought of this already....but does it do it with all of your other tools? If you hook up a short piece of solution hose directly to the machine do you still have problems?

Take care,
Lisa

Yes it occurs with all tools.
Thanks,Rob.

 

[Greenie]

Brother I guarantee you it's AIR in the system, the big question is Where ?

I'd look at your incoming water supply to the pump, somewhere at some fitting there is a leak, also depending on the unit, it could be a leak in the chemical system, bottom line you are pulling air somewhere.

You need the guys smarter than me for more help, I'll try an summon the Great Eagle over here.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

Are you using the same pressure hose each time? I've had them collapse internally.

 

[brocksdad]

I don't trust my local supplier to fix crap. I would call Cat pump and see who is the closest authorized service center and have your pump and regulator checked by a specialist. If you don't have one ship it to the only place I trust Windtrax here in Kansas city

 

[Dale]

Hi Rob:

I don't do repairs anymore, but when I did I went to both bower, and pump schools.

Forget guessing. In reading your problem you've first got to trouble- shoot, what is your real problem.

#1 Is your gauge giving you false readings? There is no test, except to
replace it with another that is known to be good.

#2 If #1 is OK: Is there a restriction somewhere after where the gauge is
mounted? The easy find for this is to mount a gauge in with a Qd on
one side and a flow switch on the other. Then move this unit starting
on the front of the furthest point. Check it, and move it in closer until
a restriction is found.

#3 Pay Dale $100

Thx,
Dale

 

[KevinD]

Are you using the same pressure hose each time? I've had them collapse internally.

Any good distributor would have ruled out his hoses and wand by hooking up a different set of hoses and wand I would think.

 

[Jim Martin]

I was talking with him on the other board and was sure it was the unloading valve

He sent me pictures and I don't see a unload er on there ???

 

[White-Magic rebuilder]

Brother I guarantee you it's AIR in the system, the big question is Where ?

I'd look at your incoming water supply to the pump, somewhere at some fitting there is a leak, also depending on the unit, it could be a leak in the chemical system, bottom line you are pulling air somewhere.

You need the guys smarter than me for more help, I'll try an summon the Great Eagle over here.

Thank you Greenie but wouldn't I have a water leak in the hose? I don't see water in the truck. But what you say makes sense.
Thanks,Rob.

 

[White-Magic rebuilder]

Are you using the same pressure hose each time? I've had them collapse internally.

Thanks Jim but I have two live reels and they both do the same!
Rob.

 

[Greenie]

Air in does not necessarily equal water out.

Holy crap, looking at those pics, that looks like fun.

Option #3 for Dale looks like a winner...lol

ps: Are you serious about being a grand into this problem with your local?

 

[Jim Martin]

Most locals if they don't know what the problem is will nickle and dime you to death trying to find it and it adds up fast.............

another reason I work hard at doing all my own work.......sad but true.......
why should you pay if they did not correct the problem.........

 

[-JB-]

When I first got my TM, I had a similar problem, however my distributor paid for the analysis, however after 3hrs of searching we were unable to find it. Turned out that it was a 5 gal solution container sitting on the hose between the auxiliary water pump and the line running to the machine, it would only collapse at night when the pump was off and the pressure dropped. It was an odd problem at least. Probably not what your experiencing as, I was very green at the time, and you seem to know what your doing, but it can't hurt to look right?

 

[Matt King]

Unloader. Forget the rebuild and put a brand New one on there. Many unloaders have internal check valves for the pressure guage port. You're trapping pressure going to the guage giving you a false reading while in reality your system isn't holding that pressure to your wand. And as others said, always rule out any air leaks first with anything pressure related.

 

[Duane Oxley]

Sounds like a "flap" of some kind, moving back and forth.

I'd disconnect the solution hose (if it's live) and use a new hose connected to the front of the system for evaluation purposes...

My guess is that you have a particle of trash moving back and forth as the system operates. There's a good possibility, that it's lodged somewhere near where the pressure gauge ties in. That way, when it moves, it seals off the pressure gauge line and "holds pressure, at whatever it was at when sealed.

If the pressure gauge ties in at the regulator, then the regulator is the most likely location of all of the problem.

But... that's actually a symptom... How did the trash get there in the first place? If you have an intake filter in your fresh water inlet, check to see if it has a hole in it, etc. If not, it could be scaling on the internal plumbing that broke free and formed a particle large enough to cause the problem. if that's the case, you need to de-scale the system... (It would not be a bad idea to do that anyway...).

A system that has "good" pressure, until the trigger is pulled on the wand, generally has one of 4 problems...

1.) Air leak on the incoming supply plumbing
2.) Restriction of the incoming fresh water (pinched hose / clogged filter, etc.)
3.) Loose belt on the pump
4.) Problem inside of the pump (melted check valve or cup... trash stuck in check valve, etc.)

(I may have more later... I'm home with a cold today and thoughts are a bit, "muddy" right now...)

 

[White-Magic rebuilder]

Sounds like a "flap" of some kind, moving back and forth.

I'd disconnect the solution hose (if it's live) and use a new hose connected to the front of the system for evaluation purposes...

My guess is that you have a particle of trash moving back and forth as the system operates. There's a good possibility, that it's lodged somewhere near where the pressure gauge ties in. That way, when it moves, it seals off the pressure gauge line and "holds pressure, at whatever it was at when sealed.

If the pressure gauge ties in at the regulator, then the regulator is the most likely location of all of the problem.

But... that's actually a symptom... How did the trash get there in the first place? If you have an intake filter in your fresh water inlet, check to see if it has a hole in it, etc. If not, it could be scaling on the internal plumbing that broke free and formed a particle large enough to cause the problem. if that's the case, you need to de-scale the system... (It would not be a bad idea to do that anyway...).

A system that has "good" pressure, until the trigger is pulled on the wand, generally has one of 4 problems...

1.) Air leak on the incoming supply plumbing
2.) Restriction of the incoming fresh water (pinched hose / clogged filter, etc.)
3.) Loose belt on the pump
4.) Problem inside of the pump (melted check valve or cup... trash stuck in check valve, etc.)

(I may have more later... I'm home with a cold today and thoughts are a bit, "muddy" right now...)

Now I did replace the blower recently and even if debris did get in the blower mount port does it go through the blower heat exchanger. Plus the machine sat for a while before the blower came in, so some scale could build I suppose. Anything you can recommend to descale on a Sunday since my dist. is closed and I don't have a descale product?
Thanks for your help,Rob.

 

[Duane Oxley]

vinegar... D-brown... UltraRinse (my product)... If you feel comfortable with a more aggressive approach... Muriatic Acid from a hardware store.

Put a gallon of either one in your system via adding it to your water supply tank. (If you have a large fresh water reservoir, don't add it to there, but bypass it instead.)

Turn the system on and run the tank dry before adding it. Then, add it to the tank, and run the system until the tank is almost dry again. Back off on the regulator, to be sure that it's fully, "treated" and that it's internal parts allow trash to pass through, just in case... Just before it is dry, turn the water back on, to fill the tank. Shut the system off immediately and let it remain off for about 5 minutes for the muriatic... as short as 30 minutes... to as long as overnight for the other products.

When you crank it back up, you may have some clogged hoses to sort out. One way to minimize that is to remove the fitting from the "last" exchanger's output, and install a fitting that will allow a 3/8" hose to be connected in it's place. (A 3/8 won't clog.) I make it a point to stand clear of the system when it's first cranked up, just in case there's a leak under pressure or a splash of some kind.

The 3/8" hose will not be under pressure, because it's so big, BTW... and I recommend one that's long enough to reach several feet away from the truck. Weight it down with a brick or something that keeps it from moving around. (You don't want it to whip around and spray you, etc.)

Be sure if you use muriatic especially, to wear protective glasses and wash it off immediately, if you get it on your skin anywhere... Also, be sure to dispose of it in a safe place.

 

[Jack May]

I had the same issue on one of my TM's a few years back. Someone eventually told me to check ALL filters. Some of them were loaded with crap from a few out of town Bore water jobs.

Go through your WHOLE system and clean ALL filters including wands etc. Also check your sullpy feed lines incase it is starving but at the readings your getting, the 'blockage' is after the guage.

I don't know your machine so can't tell you specifics sorry.

John

 

[Jack May]

Another thing, don't go to your disty if he's wasting your $$$.

Go straight to a water pressure pump company. I don't have a distributor with repairs within 500 miles of me so I always look for alternatives that work on components. Works for me.

John

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Still the unloader valve.

Test to confirm by momentarily kinking the bypass hose from it. The pressure will spike up, confirming that it's the


unloader valve.

 

[Duane Oxley]

If the bypass hose is wire- reinforced, you can't kink it. But you can disconnect it from the pump and put your finger over the inlet it connected to...

(Some systems bypass into the water tank... not directly back to the pump. If yours is plumbed like that, none of this applies to your system...)

 

[-JB-]

Love this board, look how fast you got responses, no one wants to see anyone down here, you guys rule!

 

[KevinD]

After seeing those pictures, especially # 3 I would take apart every steel fitting on that machine and look for a corrosive blockage. Those type of fittings are know to corrode and block up and a large piece could have come loose and be somewhere in the system causing the on and off pressure. I have had to take drill bits and open up the corrosion in those fittings before.
By the way, what type of water do you have and what chemical are you running in the system?