Mikey P
Administrator
do you think you'll be called in again next time?
I doubt it.
I doubt it.
Allergic reaction
- Thread starter jwfoulk12
- Start date
ruff
Member
Why the strong pre-spray and the endzone rinse? I don't get it.
You've already had one allergic reaction. Why not use products that carry both the "Green Seal" and "DFE" certificates.
Regardless if you believe in these certificates or not, it will demonstrate that you both care and are careful.
One Earth products by SS carries these certificates, so do Procyon, Master Blend has a whole series of products- "Responsible Care", as well as what Bryan suggested.
You've already had one allergic reaction. Why not use products that carry both the "Green Seal" and "DFE" certificates.
Regardless if you believe in these certificates or not, it will demonstrate that you both care and are careful.
One Earth products by SS carries these certificates, so do Procyon, Master Blend has a whole series of products- "Responsible Care", as well as what Bryan suggested.
I would suggest not encapping a day care or any other areas kids play.
Just did one myself last week. Church Early Learning Center (7 Rooms) Used Flex and Pro Chems All Fiber Rinse.
They absolutely Loved it and zero reactions issues. (that I know of)
They absolutely Loved it and zero reactions issues. (that I know of)
Last time after looking over the MSDS the Dr. assumed it was the Realisit that caused the reaction so I figured I'd be safe if I didn't use it and ran Endzone as my rinse. This time it was a different kid in a different section of the daycare, but lesson learned. Now I am looking for a decent "green" prespray and detergent to use in these types of situations. I originally started using flex because this daycare takes a lot of abuse. Up until the last 2 times I've never had an issue. I'm gonna try out a couple of the recommended green products and see which ones that I like the best. If there's any other recommendations other then the ones already mentioned feel free to let me know. Thanks
Steve Lawrence
Member
If rinsing it again I would not use any detergent or rinse chemicals--you'd just be adding to the stew. I've had customers who couldn't handle a mild rinse agent! Good old plain hot softened water preferably cleaned with a Zipper for added extraction ability. Good luck!
ruff
Member
Justin,
Get the clients involved and let them make the decisions. You'll end up in a much better place.
Explain that the place gets very heavily soiled and to do a good job, it is important that maximum soil removal will be accomplished. Otherwise, what will be left in the carpet may be a lot worse for their health (due to what is not being removed,) than the miniscule amount of residue.
Experiment with some of the "green" pre-sprays, you may be pleasantly surprised. If you or them are not happy with the results involve them. Explain that you'll use a stronger pre-spray, however, you're going to rinse it out with a rinsing agent that is- "Green Seal" and "DFE" certified, it is also eco-friendly and hypoallergenic etc.
I think you'll find this to work well and enhance your reputation.
Get the clients involved and let them make the decisions. You'll end up in a much better place.
Explain that the place gets very heavily soiled and to do a good job, it is important that maximum soil removal will be accomplished. Otherwise, what will be left in the carpet may be a lot worse for their health (due to what is not being removed,) than the miniscule amount of residue.
Experiment with some of the "green" pre-sprays, you may be pleasantly surprised. If you or them are not happy with the results involve them. Explain that you'll use a stronger pre-spray, however, you're going to rinse it out with a rinsing agent that is- "Green Seal" and "DFE" certified, it is also eco-friendly and hypoallergenic etc.
I think you'll find this to work well and enhance your reputation.
Last edited:
GeneMiller
Member
1 in 13 kids are born today with a life threatening allergies. All the foods we eat pumped full of antibiotics have compromised are children's health. Since you never know who is going to contact a carpet in a commercial building you have to take extra care. A day care is double trouble because you know kids are going to contact your products. Personally I don't like fresh water rinses unless using soft water because you are leaving to much residue behind. I like dfc for commercial.
Gene
Gene
encapman
Member
It's pretty unlikely that a RTU dilution of Encap-Clean DS2 would contain enough tea tree oil to affect anyone.
Delimonene - although considered to be reasonably safe, could be an irritant. Take a look at the Flex Citrus Solv MSDS sheet...
Whereas Encap-Clean DS2 has no known health hazards, with only isopropyl alcohol requiring being listed on an MSDS...
http://excellent-supply.com/msds/Encap-CleanDS2_msds.pdf
Yet, as mentioned in the posts above, it's hard to know for sure what may have caused the child to feel bad.
Delimonene - although considered to be reasonably safe, could be an irritant. Take a look at the Flex Citrus Solv MSDS sheet...
http://interlinksupply.com/msds/cc21-flex-powder-with-citrus-solv-msds.pdf
Fire: 0 Health: 2 Reactivity: 0
SECTION 2: INGREDIENTS
HAZARDOUS INGREDIENTS: TLV
Delimonene (CAS # 5989-27-5) N/E Sodium Metasilicate (CAS # 6834-92-0) N/E
SECTION 3: HEALTH HAZARD INFORMATION
OSHA PEL
N/E N/E
IMMEDIATE HEALTH EFFECTS
Eyes: Overexposure may cause irritation to eyes.Skin: Prolonged and repeated contact may cause irritation to skin.Inhalation: Inhalation may cause irritation of upper respiratory passages.Ingestion: Single dose oral toxicity is low. Swallowing large amounts may be harmful.
PRIMARY ROUTES OF ENTRY: Eyes, skin contact/absorption, inhalation or ingestion. SIGNS/SYMPTOMS OF OVEREXPOSURE: Gastrointestinal irritation (nausea, vomiting,
diarrhea), and/or irritation to the skin, eyes, nose, throat, and respiratory tract.
TARGET ORGAN EFFECTS: Irritation of the skin and eyes. Irritation of lungs possible if mists/aerosols are inhaled.
Sodium Metasilicate is also a known irritant...
http://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/ntp/htdocs/chem_background/exsumpdf/sodiummetasilicate_508.pdf
Fire: 0 Health: 2 Reactivity: 0
SECTION 2: INGREDIENTS
HAZARDOUS INGREDIENTS: TLV
Delimonene (CAS # 5989-27-5) N/E Sodium Metasilicate (CAS # 6834-92-0) N/E
SECTION 3: HEALTH HAZARD INFORMATION
OSHA PEL
N/E N/E
IMMEDIATE HEALTH EFFECTS
Eyes: Overexposure may cause irritation to eyes.Skin: Prolonged and repeated contact may cause irritation to skin.Inhalation: Inhalation may cause irritation of upper respiratory passages.Ingestion: Single dose oral toxicity is low. Swallowing large amounts may be harmful.
PRIMARY ROUTES OF ENTRY: Eyes, skin contact/absorption, inhalation or ingestion. SIGNS/SYMPTOMS OF OVEREXPOSURE: Gastrointestinal irritation (nausea, vomiting,
diarrhea), and/or irritation to the skin, eyes, nose, throat, and respiratory tract.
TARGET ORGAN EFFECTS: Irritation of the skin and eyes. Irritation of lungs possible if mists/aerosols are inhaled.
Sodium Metasilicate is also a known irritant...
http://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/ntp/htdocs/chem_background/exsumpdf/sodiummetasilicate_508.pdf
Whereas Encap-Clean DS2 has no known health hazards, with only isopropyl alcohol requiring being listed on an MSDS...
http://excellent-supply.com/msds/Encap-CleanDS2_msds.pdf
Yet, as mentioned in the posts above, it's hard to know for sure what may have caused the child to feel bad.
Last edited:
I went back last night and made several passes with my 12 flow zipper rinsing with just water. My contact at the daycare did say that they've seen a lot more kids having allergic reactions to all sorts of things. I had mentioned the possibility of going to a "green" cleaner but that the results may not be as good but that I would be willing to try it. I'm also going to look at some Soap free products, thanks to Jim Pembertons recommendation.
J Scott W
Member
I doubt that any of the Bridgepoint products triggered the reaction, but it is impossible to know what might trigger some sensitive person. Children have less developed immune system and are more likely to have a reaction to anything. Also won't throw anyone else's cleaning product under the bus. Sometimes cleaning (including vacuuming) puts more dust in the air. Until those particles settle a sensitive person could react to something brought up from the carpet into the air. But most likely a coincidence that this happened soon after cleaning. Have you asked if they ever have children with reaction at other times?
This same scenario can happen to any of us. You might benefit from an article I wrote recently.
Replying to Client's Cleaning Related Health Concerns
Be prepared. This situation that occurs with some frequency. An occupant of a home of office being cleaned has some health complaint. They believe it may be related to the use of one of our cleaning products.
The initial contact may go something like this: “I’m experiencing some respiratory irritation and been coughing quite a bit and I think it is due to something I’m being exposed to during the cleaning process. " or "My child is experiencing a reaction to your cleaning..."
Maybe they noticed something on the Safety Data Sheet (SDS) indicating that a certain product can cause respiratory irritation. They may also want to know if others have reported similar experiences after you clean.
How should we respond?
· Don’t admit you or your cleaning methods are at fault or the cause of any issue. A reaction could be totally unrelated to the products being used. We are all exposed to many potential triggers each day just by being alive and breathing. It could be coincidental that a reaction happens while cleaning is being done.
· We are not doctors. They are not likely doctors. Health issues cannot be diagnosed or treated over the phone or by email. Do not give health advice. Everyone is different what one person is sensitive to may have no effect on another person. If the reaction is serious they should consult their personal physician.
· Tell them where they can download a SDS for any product in question. The SDS for any product in the Bridgepoint family of brands is available on www.interlinksupply.com. The MSDS for almost any product will include a statement that it may cause skin and/or respiratory irritation. Keep in mind that most SDS are for the concentrated version of the product. Bridgepoint will also make available SDS for the diluted version of products which is what should actually be taken into the home. (Products can be mixed back at the shop or at the van rather than poured and mixed in a home.) SDS for diluted products typically require fewer cautions and warnings.
· Switching to another product for future cleaning can help determine if their reaction is product specific. Some examples would be switching from Flex or other heavy duty prespray to Zone Perfect or Responsible Care Anti-allergen prespray and/or from End Zone to Clean Free as rinse product. Clean Free has no detergents, dyes, fragrances and other ingredients that might cause a reaction in sensitive people.
· Reaction to a cleaning product can be related to the way the product is being used. For example if a prespray intended to be applied to the carpet is instead a mist in the air, it is more likely to be inhaled on come into contact with skin. Consider ways to reduce aerosolizing a solution that is being sprayed. Even a fine mist of water could be irritating to the lungs if inhaled.
o Unless the label direct otherwise, most products should be applied to carpet with a spray tip size of xx06 or larger. (The last 2 or 3 digits indicate the size of the opening. Larger number produces larger droplets.) Spray tips should be replaced as they get worn, about every 3 months for brass.
o The correct pressure for pump-up, battery or electric powered sprayers should be maintained between 35 – 55 PSI.
o Pressure for H-F in-line sprayers should be 250 – 400 PSI. When Dupont tested the HydroForce years ago for application of Teflon, they discovered that using the HF with the pressure set at 400 PSI and using an 06 jet the pressure at the tip was actually 120 PSI. They got no harmful atomizing at that pressure and opening.
o Spray wand should be held 12” – 18” from the carpet. Holding a spray tip too close to a surface causes splash back. Holding the spray tip too far from the surface allows more opportunity for the droplets to be dispersed by air currents.
This same scenario can happen to any of us. You might benefit from an article I wrote recently.
Replying to Client's Cleaning Related Health Concerns
Be prepared. This situation that occurs with some frequency. An occupant of a home of office being cleaned has some health complaint. They believe it may be related to the use of one of our cleaning products.
The initial contact may go something like this: “I’m experiencing some respiratory irritation and been coughing quite a bit and I think it is due to something I’m being exposed to during the cleaning process. " or "My child is experiencing a reaction to your cleaning..."
Maybe they noticed something on the Safety Data Sheet (SDS) indicating that a certain product can cause respiratory irritation. They may also want to know if others have reported similar experiences after you clean.
How should we respond?
· Don’t admit you or your cleaning methods are at fault or the cause of any issue. A reaction could be totally unrelated to the products being used. We are all exposed to many potential triggers each day just by being alive and breathing. It could be coincidental that a reaction happens while cleaning is being done.
· We are not doctors. They are not likely doctors. Health issues cannot be diagnosed or treated over the phone or by email. Do not give health advice. Everyone is different what one person is sensitive to may have no effect on another person. If the reaction is serious they should consult their personal physician.
· Tell them where they can download a SDS for any product in question. The SDS for any product in the Bridgepoint family of brands is available on www.interlinksupply.com. The MSDS for almost any product will include a statement that it may cause skin and/or respiratory irritation. Keep in mind that most SDS are for the concentrated version of the product. Bridgepoint will also make available SDS for the diluted version of products which is what should actually be taken into the home. (Products can be mixed back at the shop or at the van rather than poured and mixed in a home.) SDS for diluted products typically require fewer cautions and warnings.
· Switching to another product for future cleaning can help determine if their reaction is product specific. Some examples would be switching from Flex or other heavy duty prespray to Zone Perfect or Responsible Care Anti-allergen prespray and/or from End Zone to Clean Free as rinse product. Clean Free has no detergents, dyes, fragrances and other ingredients that might cause a reaction in sensitive people.
· Reaction to a cleaning product can be related to the way the product is being used. For example if a prespray intended to be applied to the carpet is instead a mist in the air, it is more likely to be inhaled on come into contact with skin. Consider ways to reduce aerosolizing a solution that is being sprayed. Even a fine mist of water could be irritating to the lungs if inhaled.
o Unless the label direct otherwise, most products should be applied to carpet with a spray tip size of xx06 or larger. (The last 2 or 3 digits indicate the size of the opening. Larger number produces larger droplets.) Spray tips should be replaced as they get worn, about every 3 months for brass.
o The correct pressure for pump-up, battery or electric powered sprayers should be maintained between 35 – 55 PSI.
o Pressure for H-F in-line sprayers should be 250 – 400 PSI. When Dupont tested the HydroForce years ago for application of Teflon, they discovered that using the HF with the pressure set at 400 PSI and using an 06 jet the pressure at the tip was actually 120 PSI. They got no harmful atomizing at that pressure and opening.
o Spray wand should be held 12” – 18” from the carpet. Holding a spray tip too close to a surface causes splash back. Holding the spray tip too far from the surface allows more opportunity for the droplets to be dispersed by air currents.
- If the client believes there is still something in the carpet that would cause continuing reaction, offer to rinse the carpet using HWE and a mild rinse product such as Clean Free. The reduced surface tension of such a rinse product allows a more complete rinsing of anything that may be left in the carpet than water only rinse would.
Desk Jockey
Member
Too many variables that could be at play.
New hand wash or alcohol disinfectant? Reaction to tempera paint?
Are the tables and chairs being wiped down with a new disinfectant?
Could there have been residual pesticides the children came in contact with when on the carpet?
The carpet is an easy one to blame but if its rinsed thoroughly, its hard to believe its the culprit regardless of what brand solutions you are using.
New hand wash or alcohol disinfectant? Reaction to tempera paint?
Are the tables and chairs being wiped down with a new disinfectant?
Could there have been residual pesticides the children came in contact with when on the carpet?
The carpet is an easy one to blame but if its rinsed thoroughly, its hard to believe its the culprit regardless of what brand solutions you are using.
Idk, all I know is this happened the last 2 times I've cleaned there. Coincidence or not it's making me really aware that there are many people out there with chemical sensitivities and I need to rethink my products that I use in these types of environments. The room that this occurred in was there infant toddler room so very small children that are crawling around on the carpet.
I rinsed the area and then emailed to check on everything today. Here's her response.
Thanks, Justin! It is going well for the kiddo in our infant room. The staff will continue to keep him on blankets for the upcoming weeks.
Hopefully the green alternative or the soap free will clean the carpets well.
I really appreciate your sensitivity to our issue and am glad to be working with you to keep the kiddos safe AND on clean carpets!
Linda
It's nice when they appreciate what you do and understand that this kind of thing can happen.
Anyway just thought I'd share.
Thanks, Justin! It is going well for the kiddo in our infant room. The staff will continue to keep him on blankets for the upcoming weeks.
Hopefully the green alternative or the soap free will clean the carpets well.
I really appreciate your sensitivity to our issue and am glad to be working with you to keep the kiddos safe AND on clean carpets!
Linda
It's nice when they appreciate what you do and understand that this kind of thing can happen.
Anyway just thought I'd share.
GeneMiller
Member
Since the problem occurred twice you could rinse with ammonia, not very green but completely evaporates and is residue free. Any time we need a boost we add it to the rinse tank. Don't be tempted to use it as a prespray the smell is overwhelming.
Gene
Gene
ruff
Member
What about his health?
Being exposed to Amonia is not high on the survival list.
A good cleaning product should be just fine.
Being exposed to Amonia is not high on the survival list.
A good cleaning product should be just fine.
SamIam
Member
Magic wand has some good stuff but hypo allergenic folks usually are affected by fragrance more then anything, a lot of green or soap free detergent free have fragrance like Cobb's detergent free, and Magic Potion. They work good, like trashed green from magic wand but that has citrus solvent in it I believe. The thing is to find out if its a fragrance reaction or not.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
encapman
Member
We also have a "Green" DfE Certified product in the Releasit line, called Bio-Encap...
http://www.excellent-supply.com/Bio-Encap-GREEN-Encapsulation-Detergent--4-Gallon-Case_p_293.html
http://www.excellent-supply.com/Bio-Encap-GREEN-Encapsulation-Detergent--4-Gallon-Case_p_293.html
Larry Cobb
Member
I also like the green DFC line of cleaners by Chemspec for good cleaning with minimal irritations . . . They use naturally-derived surfactants and are certified by several "green" organizations . . . http://www.cobbcarpet.com/zen/index...ch_result&search_in_description=1&keyword=dfc
http://www.cobbcarpet.com/zen/index...ch_result&search_in_description=1&keyword=dfc
Mikey P
Administrator
I agree with Larry
Our go to choice for these situations
Our go to choice for these situations
GeneMiller
Member
I did suggest dfc first which is what we use however it does leave a residue. In cases where as close to zero residue is the goal ammonia fits that bill it completely evaporates. He won't even smell it coming through as a rinse. 4 oz in a 5 gallon pail metered at 3-4 is not noticeable. Never use it as a pretreat because it would overwhelm you. Using on one account is far safer than what you are normally exposed to day in and out.
Gene
ruff
Member
I see your point gene. Definitely will leave less rinsidue. Though, done right with a hypoallergenic rinse, the residue will be miniscule.
Part of the advise though is regarding showing concern and having the "right" certificate on the products being used. At times (actually almost all times) public perception is of importance.
Part of the advise though is regarding showing concern and having the "right" certificate on the products being used. At times (actually almost all times) public perception is of importance.
The Great Oz
Member
Good work Justin, you handled the problem professionally.
Remember that ammonia is extremely corrosive. If you're running all stainless, fine, but it will corrode/clean the insides of your brass, which means in the first seconds of pulling the trigger a nasty greenish color will come out. Really tough to get copper or brass corrosion color out of carpet, even if you just put it there.
I liked using ammonia as a prespray, using a tank sprayer to apply, because it chased the pesky janitorial staffers away.
Remember that ammonia is extremely corrosive. If you're running all stainless, fine, but it will corrode/clean the insides of your brass, which means in the first seconds of pulling the trigger a nasty greenish color will come out. Really tough to get copper or brass corrosion color out of carpet, even if you just put it there.
I liked using ammonia as a prespray, using a tank sprayer to apply, because it chased the pesky janitorial staffers away.
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