Best Slide In Engine Kohler,Briggs,Honda

[Farenheit251]

Anyone have any opinions? Kohler seams to be the industry favorite. I'm not impressed with mine-loud,guzzles fuel and my first one lasted 0nly 1700 hrs. The plastic threaded oil cap likes to pop off and spray oil on the roof and everything else-both of mine and also a friends unit. Looking at Northern tool the Honda 24 is only $1229,Briggs 23 $1649 and Kohler 25 over $1900. I did notice the torque is 39.9 lbs on Kohler and only 33.9 on Honda. Seems like torque would be important turning a blower under load.

 

[GeneMiller]

I've had all three and the Briggs lasted the longest with the least problems. The Kohler 25 had problems blowing head gaskets and the mechanic told me the 20 hp was a better engine.

Gene

 

[Chris Sheldon]

I think the main reason TM manufacturers use Kohler engines is that they have a higher compression ratio which creates higher head temps; this is important for units that run heat excahngers.

The Kohler 20 hp is virtually identical to the 25 hp, so one is, inherently, no better than the other, in my experience.

Be careful ordering from places like Northern Tool. I get bent when a local guy comes in and wants me to do warranty on an engine he bought online or from a catalog just to save $. Usually I tell them I am very busy and it will be a month before I can look at it; if I am in a pissy mood I tell them to call the 800 number they bought it from and talk to Tech. Support.

These places piss me off because they retail engines for less than I can even buy them for at dealer cost!!!!!! I can't tell you how many sales I have lost to Northern Tool and the like.

 

[GeneMiller]

Chris,

I agree with you about the two engines. The problem I had was the 25hp kept blewing head gaskets and was changed out for the 20hp which still ran perfectly when I got rid of it.


Gene

 

[Chris Sheldon]

I hear you Gene! Sometimes these engines and machines make no friggin' sense! ha ha

 

[Farenheit251]

I agree with what you are saying Chris and I'll pay a few hundred more to deal with a local dealer. The guy I usually go to only reps Kohler and I wanted to see other people's experience. My first two machines were Briggs that ran forever but everything had a lot less plastic then.

 

[Greenie]

Well,....being that the new Classic TNT comes with a 20hp Kohler I'll sleep a bit better tonight.

Whenever I hear about a motor "blowing" head gaskets, I ask Is it a Heat Exchange or Fuel Burner...funny how they are always a HX.

 

[Able 1]

2400 hours on my Kohler and it's running strong.

 

[Chris Sheldon]

I agree with what you are saying Chris and I'll pay a few hundred more to deal with a local dealer. The guy I usually go to only reps Kohler and I wanted to see other people's experience. My first two machines were Briggs that ran forever but everything had a lot less plastic then.

I didn't mean to call you out or anything Brian. Guess I needed to vent! ha ha

 

[Greenie]

btw Brian, what exactly crapped out on your 25 kohler?

 

[lancehollister]

I have 25 hp koler engines with over 5000 hours and still running strong.

 

[Farenheit251]

First one was a bent rod. In all fairness most of my problems on both engines are probably coming from the HX I had added on. Too much flex pipe and poor fitting headers. I haven't gotten any free heat yet. I am looking at replacing the valve cover with the poor fitting oil cap and replacing the header with a factory OEM muffler but at nine hundred hours I'm not real confident in this engine with all the abuse it has taken. I will probably run it till it dies but cant afford to be down a week so I'm looking at getting a backup now.
The Briggs units seemed to sound smoother and operate at a higher pitch that disipates instead of shaking foundations. I also like the way the exhaust mounts on the Briggs with a hex key bolt going into the engine as opposed to trying to squeeze a wrench around a nut with no room. Also why burn .5 gallons an hour extra fuel if you dont need the exhaust heat. I was kind of surprised to see Les go with a 30 Kohler over a 31 Briggs and curious why?

 

[Dolly Llama]

First one was a bent rod. In all fairness most of my problems on both engines are probably coming from the HX I had added on.

back pressure = blown head gaskets

between the three choices..for "my" money
1.Kohler first
2 Briggs second



























a distant 3rd, Honda.

Cobby will be along shortly to recommend Honda.
cause I believe that's what he puts in his builds .....for monetary reasons


..L.T.A.

 

[Loren Egland]

The Powermatic uses the 25 hp Kohler. My son in law had 6000 hours when he replaced his. I have one with over 4000 hours. Kero burner for heat so no heat exchanger. Also the Powermatic has a simple oil cooler that keeps the running temperature down far more than just air cooling. The oil is run through a copper tube in the 5 gallon fresh water draw tank.

I was once told that the 27 hp Kohler was torn down and looked over by a Steam Way engineer and from that info, the decision was to stick with the 25 hp Kohler on PMs.

Mikey's 30 hp Kohler and blower combo looks pretty sweet though.

 

[Larry Cobb]

Re: Best Slide In Engine = Kohler Command PRO

Captain Cleantastic;

The Kohler Command Pro series (34-38 HP) is my current favorite:
http://www.kohlerengines.com/onlinecatalog/productDetail.htm?productNumber=Command PRO CH940

This engine has D-U-R-A-B-I-L-A-T-Y written all over it.

Longer interval between service is another nice benefit.

It has been more durable than the water-cooled 31HP Kohler we used before the 34HP.

Oil cooler in flywheel air stream.

Best torque curve I've seen, under a full 17" of blower lift.

This engine design has moved ahead of Honda...
who is way ahead of Briggs.

Larry

 

[CleanEvo]

I've only got 900 hours on my Kohler 20hp, but it runs very well, never a problem. The dealer told me a never sees problems with these engines, he did tell me when I bought it that I could expect to change the engine in the 3000 to 4000 hour range depending on how it's maintained. It's a machine, it's not going to last forever.

 

[Contemporary Carpet Clean]

All the kohler engines we have and have had burn oil.....the briggs that we have and had never burned oil. Kohlers when hot seem to start hard. i would go with a briggs....We have never used a honda engine nor do i know anyone who has used a honda in a TM. I agree with people i believe the HX tears up to the engines more so than a kero or propane fired heat method.

 

[Chris Sheldon]

First one was a bent rod. In all fairness most of my problems on both engines are probably coming from the HX I had added on. Too much flex pipe and poor fitting headers. I haven't gotten any free heat yet. I am looking at replacing the valve cover with the poor fitting oil cap and replacing the header with a factory OEM muffler but at nine hundred hours I'm not real confident in this engine with all the abuse it has taken. I will probably run it till it dies but cant afford to be down a week so I'm looking at getting a backup now.
The Briggs units seemed to sound smoother and operate at a higher pitch that disipates instead of shaking foundations. I also like the way the exhaust mounts on the Briggs with a hex key bolt going into the engine as opposed to trying to squeeze a wrench around a nut with no room. Also why burn .5 gallons an hour extra fuel if you dont need the exhaust heat. I was kind of surprised to see Les go with a 30 Kohler over a 31 Briggs and curious why?

Why do you think the Briggs will be that much more efficient? An engine mounted on a truckmount is a whole different world as compared to the way they test engines at the factory.

In a properly engineered TM, the Kohler will last quite a while (I know, there are always some exceptions). I have a few customers with their Prochem Legend SE's that are still rockin' the same Kohler 20 HP with 5-6000 hours!

 

[Larry Cobb]

Re: Best Slide In Engine: Kohler Command PRO

Contemporary Carpet Clean;

All of our Truckmounts have been thru OEM warranty testing by factory-trained engineers.

They check vibration, oil temperature, engine load, and exhaust back-pressure on the engine.

Both Honda and Kohler engineers did back-pressure testing & gave their OK on our heat exchanger systems.

We have hundreds of Kohler and Honda engines working daily.

The majority of them have oil coolers, which enhances reliability.
The oil consumption has NOT been a concern for the owners.

LarryDFW

P.S. - Chris, you're an experienced mechanic.
How would you rank these 3 Engine Manufacturers for reliability ??

 

[Chris Sheldon]

Larry, glad to hear you put your units through the application process! Thats the way to do it!

Your question is a tough one to answer Larry, because I mostly deal with commercial/industrial so most of what I see (75%) is Kohler.

The Honda's on the El Diablo's have been great; I havent heard from any of the customers I installed these for complain about the engine (or much else for that matter).

On the Briggs, I do not like the mechanical lifters, PITA to adjust and lots of bent push rods it seems like. The Briggs just doesn't seem to be as stout as the Kohler or Honda.

How would you rank them Larry? I know you are/were an OEM for at least Honda and Kohler.

 

[bob vawter]

when did this turn into a lawnmowers cutting society?

 

[Greenie]

Interesting to see the Briggs comments, cause i know there are a hell of a lot of them out there on carpet cleaning machines, I know the 16, and 18hp were very popular for many years. I have noticed a decline in Briggs these alst few years but as I understand it, that is more of a decision Briggs has made not the customers, that and Kohler has made a hard Push into this market with aggressive pricing and national service centers.

I would put a Briggs on a non-HX unit tomorrow with no concerns.

All that said, Kohler does seem to own this market these days.

 

[bob vawter]

 

[Chris Sheldon]

Kohler filled much of the void left by Onan. Onan used to dominate in the generator and welder market, but Kohler has been the popular replacement. Those Onans were great engines.

BTW, that is a sexy garden tractor you got there, Bob.....whatcha' runnin' in that bad boy?

 

[bob vawter]

Kohler

 

[Chris Sheldon]

Old K Series, I presume.

 

[bob vawter]

Not sure what year she is...i think in the SEVENTIES...i bought it from the original owner about SIXTEEN years ago............
I can STILL get a thousand bucks for it..wit the snow blade!

 

[Chris Sheldon]

I don't doubt it. People rebuild those old K series like crazy because they were such a good engine.

 

[bob vawter]

the case chassis is the best made tractor...they is!

 

[Larry Cobb]

Re: Best Slide In Engine Kohler Command PRO

How did this slide-in engine discussion . . .

get off track into tractor chassis ??

Larry