I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pads

[Stonegeek]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

I just got done looking at dozens of posts on dirtygrout.com where a whole herd was having a joyous time bashing the monkey pads posting pictures of orange peeled floors and complaints of no clarity. The interesting part was that in every case when they described what steps they did, it was all done wrong. Not one single person followed the instruction booklet that is available for free download. If you try to use a screw driver in place of a hammer can you drive a 3" nail into a 4x4? Nope. You can't get clarity with monkey (when used improperly) any more than a crystallizer can remove lippage. No disrespect to dirty grout or it's members implied, there's tons of valuable information shared there but in this instance, several people used the Monkey Pads completely wrong and then jumped on the computer to tell the world all about it.

Just to clarify. They say that people are selling monkey pads to carpet cleaners who don't know any better. I say that monkey pads have a place for light restoration and polishing for guys who don't want to get into heavy restoration. It gives them the opportunity to satisfy a very large segment of the market, customers who want to improve the appearance of their floor but aren't prepared to spend the money commanded by a specialist. Listen guys. There's a place in the market for all of you. Ron Lippold is a perfect example. Is he an OCD stone guy? No. Is he a hack? No. He's a decent hard working guy trying to earn an honest living providing a specific service at a reasonable price for customers who want good value and an improvement but aren't willing to pay specialist prices for perfection. Does that make him bad? No. Does it mean the specialist is ripping people off with the higher prices? No. Each hold their own value. Each has a place in the market. Each has it's own set of tools, equipment and skill level. I never bothered to get into the pissing matches because sometimes some people just like to bad mouth something. Had any one of them actually called us up and explained the issues they were experiencing it would have been easy to solve since they were trying to use a screwdriver instead of a hammer and then got mad when the stupid nail wouldn't go into the 4x4. Oh well too late for all that now I guess.

Do yourself a favor. If you have any issues with Cheetahs or Monkeys, call 800-280-0333 and ask for technical support. That's what we are here for. To help you get the results you're looking for. We can't help if no one asks.

I do apologize for the rant but it bothers me when I see all the bashing going on. Carpet cleaners bashing stone guys. Stone guys bashing carpet cleaners. It's nutz! I spent many years doing both and getting to know tons of decent hard working people on both sides. They can really help you and you can really help them. The smart ones, like Mikey, find ways to partner so that everyone wins. Especially the customer. All I'm saying is... Can't we all just get along???

 

[sweendogg]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

I'm waiting on Mikeys list of three. Mikey? Pick em good. I don't want to send nearly $1000 of pads to anyone who won't use them and track the data.

See Mikey, we's waiting on you.

 

[dealtimeman]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

YES we are waiting!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

 

[dealtimeman]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

oh and i almost forgot, was at cobbs today and saw them up close. they look very promising. i walked right by them at connections as everytime i went by there booth there was a crowd. there is a lot resin on the pads even when compared to discs. i spoke with larry about them and he says he has one guy in particular that has had them for a few weeks now but has not heard back fom him. usauuly no news is good news though.

 

[Gary T]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

Here we Go!!

 

[Gary T]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

I just got done looking at dozens of posts on dirtygrout.com where a whole herd was having a joyous time bashing the monkey pads posting pictures of orange peeled floors and complaints of no clarity. The interesting part was that in every case when they described what steps they did, it was all done wrong. Not one single person followed the instruction booklet that is available for free download. If you try to use a screw driver in place of a hammer can you drive a 3" nail into a 4x4? Nope. You can't get clarity with monkey (when used improperly) any more than a crystallizer can remove lippage. No disrespect to dirty grout or it's members implied, there's tons of valuable information shared there but in this instance, several people used the Monkey Pads completely wrong and then jumped on the computer to tell the world all about it.

The smart ones, like Mikey, find ways to partner so that everyone wins. Especially the customer. All I'm saying is... Can't we all just get along???

Sure we can all get along, especially if you don't make dumbass false statements like the first quote. Oh, and the first 5 words of the second quote.

 

[sweendogg]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

humpety bumpety bump... We the newbs of stone do wish to appease he who is ready to giveth! !dork!

 

[Gary T]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

I guarantee I won't see the cheetahs unless I buy them. Just like the monkeys.

Have any of you downloaded the directions that were mentioned above? Really. It does say a wet and messy process and to mask surrounding areas. I didn't see that in the marketing material. So much for the "less messy."

Did you get the damage out with the 500 grit diamonds on the trav and limestone. Nope. Did you apply the hardener? The What? Yes hardener. Did you stand around an watch it dry for an hour? Hope there was no residue, cause then you would have some more work to do.

So masking for the "less messy" mess. 500g diamonds, he wants you to use six(thats 3 more than I use, so there is an added expense) to get etching, scratches, and wear. No you gotta slop on some hardener and let it dry for 60 min.

I'd be happily polishing away at this point in time, and you still have 2-3grits to go.

there is more for the dark marbles too.

Really????

 

[sweendogg]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

Holy Hell.. I didn't even realize I was reading the same posts of the guy who took the class with me. How is back Garret?

 

[sweendogg]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

did I mention that Garret was providing at least as much info to the class as the Instructor.. he is a true wealth of knowledge on stone care.

 

[Gary T]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

Hey David. Back is ok, was my ass that hurt and still does. Severely bruised tail bone. Saw your truck in the lot but didn't realize it was the Sweeney from here.

Thanks for the props. Just tryin to help. I really don't mind at all helping guys out especially if it saves them some time and $$$$$. I'm really not bashing the products here, just the BS marketing and misinformation.

 

[Stonegeek]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

Wow Gary T, looks like you took my post as a personal attack. That was not the intent. As far as dumbass comments, really? The first comment was my observation of several posts where the people who described what they did wasn't even close to the recommended procedure. As for the second, how is saying that people like Mikey and others who find synergy in relationships between carpet cleaner n stone guy a dumbass comment? You lost me on that one. It's a great way for each to leverage themselves and stay in what they specialize in. As far as processes go... There's more than one way to skin a cat. You like three diamonds, some like 5, some six. Some skip steps. So what. It's all preference. Those are guidelines as a starting point to learn how to use the pads for maximum clarity which is achievable. Once you get used to it you can start tweeking it to your liking. The issue I have is that none of those people tried the process I outlined nor did they bother to call directly for advice. They know stone well. That doesn't mean they know this product. There's several ways to get the clarity you're looking for. If you'd like to explore that I'd be glad to help. But as I said before, the Monkey Pads are more for light refinishing and maintenance. Cheetah Pads are for full restoration and will work very well to produce the extreme clarity you seek wether you choose to powder polish after step 2 or 3 or if you decide to do all 4 steps and polish with the 11,000 monkey pad.

I'm not concerned with your negative review of the monkey pads in regard to sending you a cheetah to test. As I said, it's guys like you that inspired them. My only concern is that you've already made up your mind and haven't even tried them yet. To come out publicly with those type of aggressive statements and profanity when all I'm trying to do is get your feedback to deliver a product that satisfies your needs to make your work easier just doesn't seem appropriate. But hey. It's fun to vent sometimes. So the big question is... Can you be objective? It doesn't look that way but hey. Maybe you're having a bad day cuz your butt is sore I don't know. Don't get all riled up. I'm just having a little fun. Sure. Im still interested in your opinion if you can be objective. After all this product is for you. If you and the majority of stone guys I have testing them agree there's tweaks that need to be made. I'll make them. The goal isn't to argue on a message board. That's a waste of time. My only goal is to give guys like you a product they can use. That's it.

 

[Mikey P]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

Was that a slam on me Garret?
tell me more.

 

[Gary T]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

Relax there sparky. I was pokin some fun at Mikey. As for the dumbass tossed at you. Grow a pair. Hey it was a dumbass, completely BS comment. You inferred that some of the most experienced, educated, and seasoned stone guys on the planet didn't know how to use your stuff. What was wrong with any process they tried, including the instructions that come with the monkey pads? And the process used by guys on this board? Nearly every one of them tried their best to match the claims you make. Didn't happen.

Do you really think there is this conspiracy among the stone pros to discredit your products? We are always looking for better, easier, faster, less messy. But NOT at the loss of quality of finish. Your products, namely the monkey pads, don't fit the bill.

I just have a problem with your marketing. The cute little story about Monty. The "so easy a monkey could do it." If the results matched the marketing, nobody would have an issue. They simply don't, not the monkey pads. But you can't handle the truth. Sorry to bust your bubble.

As for the profanity, again, grow a pair. That is tame compared to some of the stuff posted here. Sorry I offended your sheltered little ears.

 

[Mikey P]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

Send him a set Dana.

 

[Gary T]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

I hope I didn't hurt your feelings too Mikey.

 

[Stonegeek]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

Alright Gary let's do this. I'll send you the pads and instructions. You give em a whirl and track the data and gather pics and we'll go from there.

 

[Gary T]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

I really hope they work as advertised. I will report either way.

Sent from my Eris using Tapatalk

 

[Bee Busy]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

Hi Dana....thanks for the free offer on the Cheetah pads but I'm gonna have to pass....this process looks painfully long and I don't care much to use a "hardener" that will take more time...I'm comfortable with the methods I currently use...thanks and good luck with your new product....Bill

 

[Mikey P]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

Whats this about a Hardener?


Not mentioned at the Vegas demo.

 

[Gary T]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

Did you read the instruction booklet available for free download?

Sent from my Eris using Tapatalk

 

[Stonegeek]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

The hardener is an "optional" step on travertine and limestone only, if you want to add durability to the surface as an added bonus for the customer but is not mandatory and is on the Monkey Pad Instructions. Cheetah Pads and Monkey Pads are very different. Cheetah Pads are faster and are capable of heavy restoration in a maximum of four steps. If you're a powder polish guy, then you'd usually only use steps 1-2 on most stones and 1-3 on more difficult stones. Step one replaces (50,100,200 grit resin discs ) step 2 replaces 100,200,400 resin discs. Step 3 replaces 400,800,1500 resin discs. Step 4 replaces 1500, 3000 and polish powders or crystallizer. That's the maximum amount of steps. Each step is pretty darn fast due to the extremely high abrasive content and segment pattern. There's a tendency by stone guys to over work the cheetahs thinking they can't possibly cut as fast as they do especially since the 4 steps replace 50,100,200,400,800,1500,3000 and polishing. Unlike the Monkey Pads which are not meant to replace resin diamond discs, over use can not cause orange peel or loss of clarity.

I'm working on more detailed instructions, FAQ's section and videos. The input from you guys is a valuable component. It's always a good idea to get feedback and outside perspectives on instructions and where they are posted as was obvious with the mistakes made by my team in too little too late with instruction for Monkey Pads. The goal here is to do a much better job providing clearer instructions and capabilities with the feedback from the experienced as well as the newbies this time around.

The Cheetah Pads have gone through extensive internal testing and are currently being used almost daily by several extremely experienced stone specialists in the field. The results in their words are impressive, unbelievable and time saving. These are many of the same guys who had negative experiences with Monkey Pads but were willing to give Cheetahs a shot.

 

[sweendogg]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

Maybe I'm confusing myself.. but the free downloadable manual was for the monkey pads. The cheetah pads, so far as I can tell do not require the hardner.. just steps 1, 2, 3, and 4... Then follow with a 11000 grit monkey or or favorite polishing compound. Dana.. is this correct? (this got posted after dana replied.. he beat me to the punch)

Also on your cheetah site it says the cheetahs are not designed for lippage removal but

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=44267&start=30

So you are selling alippage pad as well I take it? How is the lippage pad different from steps 1 through 4 and how does it compare the speed of metals.. or is there a limit to how much lippage you an tackle.

Ok so is the Hardener in essence a crystallizer... or closer to a densifier for concrete?

 

[sweendogg]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

Hey Mikey, hurry up with that list of NewB's for him.

 

[Stonegeek]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

Great questions. The lippage pad is separate from steps 1-4 only if you want to cut down lippage. It looks and works like a Cheetah but is just more aggressive. Its not meant to completely flatten a surface but to safely knock down lips to minimize or eliminate picture frame potential on poorly laid stone floors. Metal bonds are aggressive and do a great job removing lippage but can potentially damage tile edges causing extra work. The Cheetah lippage Pad (currently nameless and still in final testing) does not have the same potential due to the flexible nature of the new pad matrix. All Cheetah Pads produced after nov 10 will be manufactured with the new and far more durable pad and offer extended pad life, extra vision (nearly 1 1/2" thick pad) and flexibility.

The Hardener is "optional" for travertine and limestone. It just adds durability and chemical resistance to these surfaces. Yes it's extra time and is more about adding value than saving time but as I said, it's optional not mandatory. Many lab and field tests have shown significant improvement for limestone and travertine to resist wear and chemical attack when treated with a hardener. Same concept as concrete densification. There's a reason why nearly every Home Depot in the country has had their concrete densified or hardened during the polishing process. It makes the surface more durable without using a surface coating. This is standard procedure in concrete polishing. We've found it to be extremely beneficial to travertine and limestone owners. If you're truly trying to deliver the best you can... It's worth the extra time. If you want to save time simply skip it.

Hope that helps.

 

[Gary T]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

What chemical resistance does hardener add?

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[Mikey P]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

and how will the Cheetahs work on a f'd up 30 year old Terrazzo floor?

 

[Stonegeek]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

GaryT-resistance to many chemical including acids. There are many lithium silicate identifiers/hardeners available. Some have detailed technical data sheets (not msds) online.

Mikey- They work excellent on extremely damaged terrazzo.

 

[Gary T]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

Just etched the crap out out of my shop floor with some toilet bowl cleaner. Used a lith densifier on it. I'll have to run some tests on some trav.

From an article in Concrete Construction mag discussing Lithium Silicate hardeners.

Concrete surfaces are reactive with 10 to 12 pH ratings and this isn't changed with densifying. Therefore, substances used in the maintenance process with a lower pH can dull, haze, or damage floor surfaces.

Joe Nasvik, Senior Editor of Concrete Construction Magazine. He is considered a leading authoritative figure in the concrete industry.

Every sell sheet and spec sheet I read concerning lithium silicate, AND potassium, sodium, and magnesium silicates all warned against the use of acidic cleaners on treated surfaces which could cause degradation of finish.

Need to be careful of your claims.

 

[Steve Manier]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

Hi Dana,

I have a Cimex and a swing machine, live just down the road from you in Vista, and would love to try these out on a small commercial kitchen that has Terrazzo flooring in serious need of something. I'm not real experienced and will give pics video and honest feedback. Thanks

Steve