I visited Duane Oxley yesterday..

[Fon Johnson]

I had to have a minor repair to my hammer. As usual, I got to eat a delicious lunch while there, and see what is in store for the future. He does not have a machine built yet, but it appears that in the near future he will have an exchanger machine ready to roll. As soon as his patent process is done, I suspect we will be seeing a simple heat exchange machine that will be capable of sustaining 220-230 at the wand, with the possibility of doing MUCH more than that.

I had pretty much decided that a dominator would be my next machine, but I AM waiting to see what happens with his new exchanger. I think it will be everything I ever wanted in a machine. Now, I just need to decide on a one ton, or a diesel like the Vortex uses (would have to mount a separate tank for the TM fuel). I have also decided that I need a cimex as well as a gls. Thanks to all for your input on the equipment.

I will be closely following this heat exchange unit, and if I were closer to him, I would be fighting to have the prototype in MY truck! I will update as this project progresses. I have been ANXIOUSLY awaiting this. I have been bugging Duane to build a killer exchanger unit for years. I CAN'T WAIT to see it!

Fonster

 

[Goldenboy]

Will the new mount have a 59 blower?


Golden Boy

 

[Fon Johnson]

I think there will be more than one blower option, but Duane will have to answer that. It may change as time goes on. I think he does have plans for a 36 and 47, or the equivalent anyway..

 

[brocksdad]

I turned 200k miles on my diesel truck today, with now real problems besides wear items like alternator and had to put batteries in it last weekend. I would highly recommend a diesel I had an equivalent gas truck and had a lot more problems with that truck than this one. As far as diesels go think of it this way diesels have no ignition system think of that many less part to fail.

I would like to be able to justify a cimex this year as well. I have begged borrowed and stole a friends a couple times and love it.

Is their a reason you are moving away from propane heat?

 

[Duane Oxley]

Waldo...

No, it will NOT have a 59 blower on it. I personally think that the whole, "big components are a must" thing is really more about gaining heat and justifying it (or marketing it...) after the fact.

I've been looking at exchanger logic and efficiency closely since about 2000, looking at what other manufacturers have been doing and "waiting" for an inspiration to come. (To me, design is as much a creative process as anything, and some things simply can't be rushed...) In the process of waiting and looking at various designs, I kept getting the feeling that either I was missing something, or things were simply being made waayyyy too complicated by some of the other manufacturer's designs I've seen. Well, the inspiration did finally come, in that I'm sure that other systems are just too complicated... and that includes using huge components for a gain of temperature.

And by the way... I'm still committed to using 2 blowers for a dual- wand system. When the time comes that I am satisfied that a HX system I build can generate the kind of heat for 2 wands that I think it should (2 @ 230 degrees, F, or more, at 1.5 GPM each, measured at the wand), that system will still feature 2 blowers, that can be linked together when in single wand mode.

More later...

 

[steve frasier]

I went from a 4.7 tri lobe BOXXER to a 5.6 Thermal Wave II

with the glide off the wand I couldn't believe the difference in the difficulty of wanding a carpet


I can't imagine how difficult it would be if you have a #6 blower machine

 

[Lee Stockwell]

I saw a new Steam Genie two wand unit in Atlanta, and it had two blowers.

Of course that was in early 1982, and a lot has happened since then. I remember that was the first time to see the RX20 in action.

 

[Duane Oxley]

The Steam Genie systems used blowers in series, if memory serves. My idea is to do them in parallel... like the SplitSteam you saw in Atlanta in 2000.

 

[Goldenboy]

"waiting" for an inspiration to come-Duane Oxley

Just get the thing built. You think a inspiration is just going to float out of your water bong.


Golden Boy

 

[Jimmy L]

WM 2000 has TWO 45 roots blowers with TWO separate waste tanks.

 

[Goldenboy]

JiMmY they set that system up so at least one mount would be running.

Golden Boy

 

[Duane Oxley]

Hey, Waldo...

When you see it, you'll know what I mean. Most of it is simple common sense... but the crux of it is definitely, "inspired".

 

[Guest]

Fon,

I am not telling you not to buy from Dwayne. I will say since you are not purchasing immediately, you should ride with someone that owns a Vortex and a Aero Tech that runs 2.5 inch hose.

This may make you see things you never imagined. It may also tell you that buying Dwaynes machine is the best decision for you. I just hate to see someone make a decision without taking a test drive on all the options first.

Dave

 

[hogjowl]

I kinda think the big blower craze is a bit overkill, myself. Why in the world would you want a huge blower that is so powerful that you can't use the darn thing unless you put a glide on your wand?

Give me a reliable system using two 47's.

Of course, "reliable" is the key word here.

 

[Guest]

Marty,

You are right. Reliable is very important. My truck works every day and never breaks. I clean 6 days a week and don't have time for breakdowns.

Dave

 

[Guest]

It is Terry.

Dave

 

[Mikey P]

Bigger is better


And dont let the weenies convince you otherwise.

 

[Fon Johnson]

Brian, the only real reason for me to move away from propane is the combination of cost, simplicity, and ease of use. A simple idiot proof exchanger is the best way to go when using employees. I plan to be needing something for employees. 8)

I think that anything bigger than a 47 or so is overkill in most cases. I currently run a #3 blower, and most of the time have 2 to 4 hour dry times. My customers already comment on how much faster our carpets dry. Even at that, I could bump my lift another couple or three inches and still be safe. With over double the cfm at those lift levels, what will my dry times be then? They sure won't be worse.

I will entertain the thought of riding on a vortex and aerotech, but I have gotten great service out of what I have now. To think about running a machine that will be even simpler, just as good heat, and basically double the performance (at what should be a quite attractive price) really gets me pumped. We have never really had much need to dual wand, and that is not highly likely to change. Besides, I can always get Duane to build me a split steam, or just push his butt to build me a dual blower exchanger..

I imagine I can have two of these units installed in two new vans completely equipped for what one vortex would cost. It is not that I don't like them, but rather I'm not sure they fit my business model. Also, I can't argue with years of being happy with what I have been using. Duane has taken good care of me, so why change?

 

[hogjowl]

If my plans were to stay on the truck for the rest of my life-time, then I can see how an Aerotec could be a good fit for me. (As long as Green Glides are available), but I surely can't see how I could put two or three of those high dollar rigs on the road with employees and make any profit.

Duane is on the right track with this heat exchanger idea. My only complaint with TCS is the fact that they have sold their soul to their suppliers so that they can't put heat exchangers on their bread and butter units.

If Duane can come up with a reliable package that will give good consistent heat, he ought to be able to really take his business to the next level.

 

[Fon Johnson]

If he does what we both seem to think he can do, he will certainly take it to the next level. If it works out, he will have a simple, reliable heat exchange unit capable of propane type temps, and it should be quite reasonably priced. I can't wait to see one.

 

[Bob Savage]

I will respectfully disagree with the 2 separate parallel blowers, 2 separate vacuum tank dual wand truckmount system for this specific reason.

When using this separate blower setup and running ONE wand, you will have the advantage of almost double the airflow one blower can produce (since you have a 2 parallel blower setup), and you will also have the maximum lift this system can produce. If you single wand the majority of your jobs, then this becomes the benchmark vacuum you are used to.

When you split those 2 blowers for dual wand operation, NOW each wand will loose 50% of it's single wand airflow, and will NOT perform at the wand as you are used to.

However, if, at a minimum blower size, you over-drive a single #45 blower (or larger), and set it up for dual wand operation, you will still have almost the same airflow and slightly less lift at each of 2 wands, that you are used to using when cleaning with one wand.

IOW, the dual wand vacuum in the system mentioned in the above paragraph, will be almost comparable to the single wand vacuum (your benchmark) that you are used to.

Of course this would depend on a system design that used maximum internal piping ID's based for utilizing all available airflow/lift of the vacuum system, with the fewest possible bends, and a stout silencer.

Getting back to the 2 separate blower setup, two separate blowers could also be twice the problem of one, if there was a problem with one of the 2 blowers.

 

[Greenie]

Ain't no way in hell two blowers are better than one. cost, weight, space, engineering etc...

That ought to get some debate going.

This far down the road, I'm convinced buy more machine than you need, cause bigger is better within reason. wanting for a little more....sucks.

 

[Duane Oxley]

"Getting back to the 2 separate blower setup, two separate blowers could also be twice the problem of one, if there was a problem with one of the 2 blowers."

Huh...?

Blowers are the LEAST problematic component on a system, besides the frame.

"Getting used to 2 and then going to one...".

Ummm... I have to say that I just don't see the logic here. Using a larger blower for single- wand use, and then going to dual wand use is virtually the same thing... with one MAJOR advantage... On a dual blower system, the wands are truly isolated from each other. On a single blower system, you will still notice a difference in one wand when you lift one wand off of the floor.

"Ain't no way in hell two blowers are better than one. cost, weight, space, engineering etc... "

It ain't about cost... it's about performance. Yes, it weighs more. It really doesn't take up that much more space, if one blower is under the motor and the other is on the same level, but "behind" the motor (looking down from above). Yes, it's a bit more involved than a single blower system (even the recovery tank has to have 2 chambers and a way to connect / disconnect them), but it's a big pay- off.

Greenie, you weren't in Atlanta in 2001, so you didn't see the SplitSteam demo'd there. But with 2 #33 blowers, over- driven, it had only slightly less airflow per wand (225 CFM and 240 CFM for the Roots and MD, respectively, at 14" Hg.) than the Vortex that was there... and MORE HEAT (I turned it off at 265 degrees and climbing, with 2 wands running at 600 PSI with #6 jet equivalents in them.)

Build one... or at least, look at one up close in operation... THEN say it isn't doable, worth the effort, etc.

 

[The Preacher]

Round 1 goes to Doodaddy in red corner!!!

 

[hogjowl]

He's arguing with an electric TM maker.
And a glide salesman.

 

[harryhides]

So very interesting watching all these southern dudes chewing the fat over some new approaches to the laws of physics.

with a couple of Buttwads, spouting off in the peanut gallery.

 

[FastEddie]

Welcome to the new age. Smaller motors, over-driven blowers, more heat capture, much smaller footprint and weight, while saving fuel. Right on Duane..................

 

[Duane Oxley]

Mardy...

I ain't arguin' with them... I'm correcting some misconceptions among folks with a little less experience than I have... 8)


Hey, Eddie...

Thanks... I never have been one to follow the herd.

 

[hogjowl]

I'd take exception to Harold's remarks.

If I knew what the hell he wuz saying.

 

[Mikey P]

Greenie, you weren't in Atlanta in 2001, so you didn't see the SplitSteam demo'd there. But with 2 #33 blowers, over- driven, it had only slightly less airflow per wand (225 CFM and 240 CFM for the Roots and MD, respectively, at 14" Hg.) than the Vortex that was there... and MORE HEAT (I turned it off at 265 degrees and climbing, with 2 wands running at 600 PSI with #6 jet equivalents in them.)

How much flow to get that heat Duane?