IICRC Renewal

[Jimbo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flogging_a_dead_horse

 

[mirf]

I see no benefits from IICRC referals or client knowledge of the organization. As a matter of fact a downside of some of the classes I have taken are the instructor is teaching you to pass. The no child left behind problem. Many changes need to be made to make it work!

 

[LisaWagnerCRS]

I wonder if anyone on this board has gotten a referral from IICRC?? Does anyone regularly get referrals from them?

I've not received a single referral of rug cleaning from IICRC, even though I was on the task force that worked on the exam, and one of the first to pass the test (which actually is kind of a conflict that the people who make up the test get to take it - don't you think? And since I argued on a few questions I knew to be wrong, I could remember which answers would pass the test... even though they were impractical or inaccurate).

I paid much more to ASCR/RIA forever - and again, never a single referral.

So you need to decide if the education is worth the money for the class, and then the fees after that to "keep your diploma" active. (I'm thankful my college does not follow that model, it took me ten years to pay off my student loans. LOL.

Now... I do get a few referrals a year from CFI, my local association.

RIA just got rid of their top-heavy, expensive management and staff - they had a mutiny by members. So perhaps they will restructure and be worth taking another look at. Perhaps it'll be like the Middle East, and a revolt will spread to IICRC. =) But I'm not holding my breath. But who knows what this year holds... maybe member drop-outs and other better competitive options will make them focus more on creating more value for the registrants as opposed to the interests of those running the show there.

Lisa

 

[KevinL]

I hope they do something but it's to late for me. I just dropped out. I saw no benefit. They need to promote themselves and their members to the buying public. And the benefits of proper and timely cleaning of carpet by professionals.

 

[Al]

were still involved, mostly for the wd work, I have only
had 1 person insist on a IICRC firm like 10 years ago
IICRC has never sent us a lead in 16 years

I just got my Master cleaner cert in the mail though 8)

 

[Shorty]

According to the U.S. Bureau of the Census, the resident population of the United States, projected to 03/21/11 at 10:23 UTC (EST+5) is:


311,021,770



Out of that number, disregard carpet cleaners, suppliers, etc; how many people seeking a carpet cleaner would know what your abbreviated WDR or any other such certification means. ??

Also, how many would really even care.??

I believe in training, but I do dissaprove of many of the ways that many instructors in the past have got their pupils into the top numbers.

Not everyone is able to take in these mental games at the same pace as others.

Whilst some may remember the answer to every question, they could also be hopeless in the field.

Conversely, others that may fail these exams, could quiet possibley leave the "academics" wallowing in a urine infested Wilton.

I believe that the entire certification process is flawed in it's current curriculum, & that an entirely different approach needs to be made to allow each and every student fully understand what they should be learning.

The rot starts from the top down.

Ooroo,

 

[Clean Response]

I am a member as like someone said it is not that much. I do feel it is not worth the cost. I don't see the point in it as several companies around my area lie about being a IICRC. I pointed it out to the IICRC and their response is that they can not do anything about it unless they use there logo.

What is the point in pay for a membership when you can lie about. You can even buy the badges on ebay.

As for referrals I got maybe 3 from customers that say they found me from there website.

 

[Zee]

As many of you that know me and have read my comments over the years, I understand all of these comments above.

I am now on the Board of the iicrc and you would be as surprised as I was to find that many on the Board agree with many of the above concerns. At least half of the Board has serious concerns about the CRI's Seal of Approval program - this story is far from settled.

The most common concerns are -

The 75% pass rate - this one is being debated and may change.

The matter of not knowing what questions you failed on - this one will change once on-line testing and immediate results are put in place.

There are many on the Board that are aware of the lack of benefits from being "Certified" although as some here have said it is not the purpose of the iicrc to do your marketing for you.


What I would be interested in hearing from you is -
What kind of pass rate would you like to see ?
What kind of benefits would you like to see ?
Would you be willing to pay for much more advanced and expensive Courses if they were offered ?

Some benefit ideas that have been raised are -

Exclusive Articles - Scientific and Technical information just for Certified Techs ?
A small scientific lab where you could send samples of your mystery carpet or fabric disasters could be sent for testing ?
Some more and advanced Courses either theory, hands-on or both - for a fee ?
Any other ideas ...... lets here them.

I'm all ears.

Not the right time to ask for more fees....
I think an interested person that want to learn, will get the info online from a board like this without having to pay "fees". (Its not a fee here to pay 5bucks a month for a much wider range of info then what the iicrc would ever provide)

I don't see why anyone would pay any more monies to the iicrc. I didn't pay mine last year either...

I know of companies around here too that even use the logo on their vans, and if you get into a conversation with the techs you realize they have absolutely no idea about this industry. (As far as up to date chemistry or technical knowledge and equipment knowledge)

 

[Clean Response]

I think what would make it worth while is if the IICRC would start educating the public. If I take my car somewhere I like to see that the mechanic has ASE training. What ASE mean I have no clue. I just know he took a class and got certified. Most people know to look for that when it comes to cars. Do they know to look for IICRC? Maybe they can take some of the fees they get and start a public awareness section so people know.

 

[Clean Response]

Sorry double post. My iPad was not doing anything so I hit submit a few times. :roll:

 

[Dan Lloyd]

I joined to see if I would receive any referrals through the IICRC. None.

That was my purpose. I can do my own marketing locally. But it is not my intention to do the IICRC's marketing in my area.

If they can get the referral thing going, that would be good.

Another thing. I live in a small town area. Service many zip codes that all together do not have the population of a city zip code.

No way I'm paying the fee for extra zip code for referrals.

Thanks,


Dan

BTW, I did not renew.

 

[harryhides]

Many thanks to all that have contributed their thoughts on this subject.

No-one has all of the answers, I know that I don't but I can take your thoughts, complaints and suggestions to try to make some positive changes that will reflect your ideas and to help you to be better equipped to find success in your own business.

Rome was not built in a day.


Every long journey begins with a single step.

 

[KevinL]

let's make the journey in the right direction.

 

[TimP]

The problem I see is that the IICRC doesn't charge enough to give us what we need. They need to do a huge marketing campaign and set up a proper website for IICRC certified cleaners so that they can get reviewed and referred, not just be firms or master cleaners. Also something along the lines of the websites of Angies list, Yelp, Service Monster, and what not. They are going to have to be bigger and keep up. In our economy you have to keep up or be left behind, and the way I see it they are doing the same thing they always did and hope to stay in business. You can't do that and survive. I wont go back unless I see that it's going to do something for my business. So far I've seen no difference without it. We all don't keep working because we don't make a difference, they shouldn't expect the same.

 

[Marc Imbesi]

The problem I see is that the IICRC doesn't charge enough to give us what we need. They need to do a huge marketing campaign and set up a proper website for IICRC certified cleaners so that they can get reviewed and referred, not just be firms or master cleaners. Also something along the lines of the websites of Angies list, Yelp, Service Monster, and what not. They are going to have to be bigger and keep up. In our economy you have to keep up or be left behind, and the way I see it they are doing the same thing they always did and hope to stay in business. You can't do that and survive. I wont go back unless I see that it's going to do something for my business. So far I've seen no difference without it. We all don't keep working because we don't make a difference, they shouldn't expect the same.

BINGO!

I was gonna suggest marketing campaign. I was under the impression, in the late 90's, that IICRC ads were to be found in women's magazines and some women's cable tv channels. IICRC needs to spread the word on a national level so I can gain more credibility with it. Me explaining to my client about it, and them never hearing IICRC before, means nothing, but maybe I'm a bullshit artist.

I love the review idea Tim suggested.

If IICRC is to be an elite membership (showing value), then a solid B or better (85%) should be passing. Im sure the DOJ wont step in on this issue....

 

[Hoody]

The problem I see is that the IICRC doesn't charge enough to give us what we need. They need to do a huge marketing campaign and set up a proper website for IICRC certified cleaners so that they can get reviewed and referred, not just be firms or master cleaners. Also something along the lines of the websites of Angies list, Yelp, Service Monster, and what not. They are going to have to be bigger and keep up. In our economy you have to keep up or be left behind, and the way I see it they are doing the same thing they always did and hope to stay in business. You can't do that and survive. I wont go back unless I see that it's going to do something for my business. So far I've seen no difference without it. We all don't keep working because we don't make a difference, they shouldn't expect the same.

100% completely agree.

 

[harryhides]

The problem I see is that the IICRC doesn't charge enough to give us what we need. They need to do a huge marketing campaign and set up a proper website for IICRC certified cleaners so that they can get reviewed and referred, not just be firms or master cleaners. Also something along the lines of the websites of Angies list, Yelp, Service Monster, and what not. They are going to have to be bigger and keep up. In our economy you have to keep up or be left behind, and the way I see it they are doing the same thing they always did and hope to stay in business. You can't do that and survive. I wont go back unless I see that it's going to do something for my business. So far I've seen no difference without it. We all don't keep working because we don't make a difference, they shouldn't expect the same.

Your thoughts and Marc's on this subject mirror mine precisely.
I assure you that there will be a lot of changes coming down the road in the next couple of years and will provide this list of comments ( without names ) for the Board to hear and consider.

We just have to work out what we'd like to do as opposed to what we CAN do along these lines.

 

[Jamesh921]

Didn't I read that the IICRC paid out something like 2 million dollars last year to a company to "manage" their "non-profit organization"?

$2M could do quite a bit of advertising.

Unless the IICRC starts marketing its members and its benefits to the masses, you can count me out.

I'm tired of getting the "deer in the headlight look" when I mention it to my clients.

Edit:
Almost forgot - I won't be back until and unless the IICRC openly denounces its inaccurate findings with the Rug Doctor and fake dirt dog-and-pony show. Talk about a slap in the face to its members (the REAL cleaners of this industry). How in the world did the IICRC expect us to respect them after THAT?

 

[Ron Werner]

When they build the value into the name recognition, then there is value in being part of it.
There really isn't a lot of "value" in being a BBB member, BUT because the public recognizes it as signifying trustworthiness, it does have "value" in being a member.

There is value in the courses; they are a good starting point teaching the basics.
Beyond that, I was told to get certified for credibility. In many ways I think the best credibility a cleaner can have is the Word of Mouth from their own clients, certified or not.

 

[KevinL]

I can't see a few of us dropping out changing anything. Every time I take a class about 90% of the attendees take the cert. test.

 

[Fussy Dutchman]

I have mixed feelings...

I allowed my membership to lapse because recertification required (as I understood it) taking the same courses over and over again, at full price. For me, it wasn't so much the annual fees or even the course fees as much as the drudgery and wasted time of sitting through instruction that I'd already received, just to jump through some poorly conceived bureaucratic hoops. Where's the value in that?

I got one good account off an IICRC referral over 10 years ago, which was unexpected and welcome, but nothing before or since. That said, I don't think it's reasonable to join an industry organization like the IICRC simply because you want referrals from them. That's not the function and purpose of such an organization. It's there, ideally, to establish, certify, and maintain professional credentials for its members.

In my opinion, the IICRC has been mismanaged and has become largely irrelevant. Too bad.

 

[The Great Oz]

A timely bump for this old post. The IICRC has budgeted the money to fix the referral website. The folks in charge got a dose of "best practices" from none other than Joe Service Monster.

Also, a Biz Unite discount program has been introduced, as well as a new technical bulletin and a Certified Firm discussion board.

The Association will be rolling out a benefit in a few weeks that will make keeping a Certified Firm registration an easy decision.

All those complaints, including my own, have been heard and are being answered.

 

[GCCLee]

I can see it now..




Forced to join for the discounts!



Daaaaanggitt!

 

[Shorty]

Maybe Harry (Tony Wheelwright), and other board members will have a think about starting up a Facebook page to get the IICRC out there in front of the public??

As the IICRC say, it is not their responsibility to market for carpet cleaners, BUT, I feel it is their responsibility for the general public to realise that there is training and qualifications available for carpet cleaners that will give them more bang for their buck, so to speak.

As it is, apart from carpet cleaners, who else has any idea about the IICRC , what it is, what it does, etc; ??

The general public, ie; the people that employ us and PAY us to clean their furnishings, which allow us to PAY instructors to do the various courses, which will also allow us to PAY for IICRC certification/membership etc; should be made aware of the IICRC, who they are, what they do, and why employing a truly certified IICRC technician will be more beneficial for them than employing the cheapest hack around.


Why Facebook ??

Look at the traffic on there compared to carpet cleaning forums, which mostly, only carpet cleaners read.

One only has to look at, for example:

The Carpet Cleaners page

The Low Moisture Carpet Cleaners page

The Australian Carpet Cleaners page

All of the above are on Facebook, and all are getting more hits daily than their respective forums.

IF IICRC started an open Facebook page that was able to be viewed by the general public, then maybe we would have more open accountability for not only the IICRC, but also for genuine operators that take pride in their workmanship which the general public would then come to accept as a STANDARD for carpet cleaning and other relevant procedures within our industry.

Since I first heard about the IICRC back about '94. I have not read, nor seen, any advertising in Australia for the IICRC in any mainstream media, (apart from the bi-monthly carpet cleaning magazine, which the general public know nothing about) at all.

If this same situation exists in America, then is it any wonder the general public take the cheapest price & know nothing about quality & STANDARDS??



For what it's worth, that's my thoughts on the IICRC.

In my mind, to put into perspective how the IICRC's advertising is viewed by the general public at the moment, reminds me of an old Chinese proverb:



Doing business without advertising, is like winking at a girl in the dark.

You know what you're doing, but nobody else does.

 

[Loren Egland]

I remain certified not because I get anything from it. (I already received the education) I simply use it as an inexpensive marketing. One more key on your marketing key chain that may occasionally help when being compared to other cleaners who are not certified. I maintain my Master Technician also. It won't make or break you. I would rather have it than compete without it, for a few bucks per year.

 

[harryhides]

Maybe Harry (Tony Wheelwright), and other board members will have a think about starting up a Facebook page to get the IICRC out there in front of the public??

As the IICRC say, it is not their responsibility to market for carpet cleaners, BUT, I feel it is their responsibility for the general public to realise that there is training and qualifications available for carpet cleaners that will give them more bang for their buck, so to speak.

As it is, apart from carpet cleaners, who else has any idea about the IICRC , what it is, what it does, etc; ??

The general public, ie; the people that employ us and PAY us to clean their furnishings, which allow us to PAY instructors to do the various courses, which will also allow us to PAY for IICRC certification/membership etc; should be made aware of the IICRC, who they are, what they do, and why employing a truly certified IICRC technician will be more beneficial for them than employing the cheapest hack around.

Why Facebook ??

Look at the traffic on there compared to carpet cleaning forums, which mostly, only carpet cleaners read.

One only has to look at, for example:
The Carpet Cleaners page
The Low Moisture Carpet Cleaners page
The Australian Carpet Cleaners page

All of the above are on Facebook, and all are getting more hits daily than their respective forums.

IF IICRC started an open Facebook page that was able to be viewed by the general public, then maybe we would have more open accountability for not only the IICRC, but also for genuine operators that take pride in their workmanship which the general public would then come to accept as a STANDARD for carpet cleaning and other relevant procedures within our industry.

Since I first heard about the IICRC back about '94. I have not read, nor seen, any advertising in Australia for the IICRC in any mainstream media, (apart from the bi-monthly carpet cleaning magazine, which the general public know nothing about) at all.

If this same situation exists in America, then is it any wonder the general public take the cheapest price & know nothing about quality & STANDARDS??


For what it's worth, that's my thoughts on the IICRC.

In my mind, to put into perspective how the IICRC's advertising is viewed by the general public at the moment, reminds me of an old Chinese proverb:

Doing business without advertising, is like winking at a girl in the dark.

You know what you're doing, but nobody else does.

Hey Shorty, hope all is well and that you are managing your dreadful winter weather alright.

All good points - over the last 12 months we have significantly increased our web-site presence and have also
started a twitter page along with a IICRC Face-book presence - https://www.facebook.com/theiicrc
along with a e-newsletter Plus free webinars for Certified Firms who now also receive a bi-monthly copy of our Technical Journal which everyone - even Aussies can read on-line for a while.

Last year we broadcast our first TV show which aired 4 times to over a million women who were paid subscribers and therefore more likely to watch.


Please say Hi to Delia for me.

 

[Wing It]

I am not like most on this forum. I have only been in the business for 14 years. I did not work for another company for many years nor did I have family showing me the ropes. I have gotten a lot out of the IICRC classes. Now that I have taken most all of them, I want more advanced classes. Perhaps, working alongside master cleaners in a hands on environment. Also, I like the idea of a lab that can determine fibers,stain or other issues. I see that being handy for upholstered blends.
There was only one advanced upholstery class offered this year I could find.
I found no use for the technical bulletins.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Have you contacted Jim Pemberton? He has a hands on class but it takes some commitment of time.

 

[Wing It]

Jim thought he would have one around June or July but the thing he is doing with Lisa Wagner must have taken all his time. Steve marsh had a class in Orlando in June while I was on vacation.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Not to slight any of the other trainers but you'll be hard pressed to find one with Jim's knowledge and experience with fabrics.