Prochem 405 Guru's needed

[Captain Morgan]

For the 405 Experts here I have some questions to ask. I give you some background info as I know it.

Park time cleaner wants to get out of the business. He's got a 405 with approximately 2500 hours that he picked up used a few years ago. Not sure it the hour meter is broken or not but the machine and van its in is very clean when I looked at it the other day.

What I noticed was the glycerin pressure gauge was broken. He explained that it froze while the side doors were open while cleaning. Maybe...we are in Maine after all. His garage is insulated and he says he puts an electric heater in the van when not in use.

He was cleaning his vehicles with the 405 and a high pressure lance when I arrived so I believe there is no pump damage. I couldn't see what the temp gauge was at because it was getting dark. He was filling the water tank from his house and I noticed when he shut the machine down to show me the van that water was squirting out of the vent hole on the water box cap. That leads me to think the check valve in the water box is broken since it was over filling? Queston: Is that a correct assumption or might it be caused by something else? How expensive a repair is that? Or do you know a part # for?

He has the 5 gallon solution jug next to the machine. But said when he bought the machine the entire chemical pump system was missing. He just presprays and does a fresh water rinse. Questions: (same as the first) how expensive are the parts to fix that so the chem system will be functional again? Is that a hard job to fix? Part #'s so I can price out the repair.

What other things should I look at, or issues / concerns / problems I should be looking for?

I think he's pricing the machine at $9500 which seems a little high but I don't know for sure. It doesn't have any extras like water softener or pump out. I didn't ask if he has the manual and service records but he did say he had some invoices for when he had the blower cleaned out? I'm wondering if that is secret code for rebuilt...

That's it for now.
Thanks guys.
Bill

 

[SamIam]

For the 405 Experts here I have some questions to ask. I give you some background info as I know it.

Park time cleaner wants to get out of the business. He's got a 405 with approximately 2500 hours that he picked up used a few years ago. Not sure it the hour meter is broken or not but the machine and van its in is very clean when I looked at it the other day.

What I noticed was the glycerin pressure gauge was broken. He explained that it froze while the side doors were open while cleaning. Maybe...we are in Maine after all. His garage is insulated and he says he puts an electric heater in the van when not in use.

He was cleaning his vehicles with the 405 and a high pressure lance when I arrived so I believe there is no pump damage. I couldn't see what the temp gauge was at because it was getting dark. He was filling the water tank from his house and I noticed when he shut the machine down to show me the van that water was squirting out of the vent hole on the water box cap. That leads me to think the check valve in the water box is broken since it was over filling? Queston: Is that a correct assumption or might it be caused by something else? How expensive a repair is that? Or do you know a part # for?

http://www.jondon.com/nsearch/?q=Prochem+405+parts

The water box has a float there's a rubber tip that needs replacing

http://www.jondon.com/plunger-seat-float-valve.html

He has the 5 gallon solution jug next to the machine. But said when he bought the machine the entire chemical pump system was missing. He just presprays and does a fresh water rinse. Questions: (same as the first) how expensive are the parts to fix that so the chem system will be functional again? Is that a hard job to fix? Part #'s so I can price out the repair.

Depends on what all missing everything??

Call Jondon


http://www.jondon.com/nsearch/?q=Prochem+405+parts


Chemical pump rebuild
http://www.jondon.com/stainless-steel-chemical-pump-ss-diaph-general-pump.html
http://www.jondon.com/valve-chemical-metering.html
http://www.jondon.com/ball-valve-chemical-selector-3-way.html

http://www.jondon.com/5-16-id-chemical-hose-sold-by-foot.html

http://www.jondon.com/chemical-flow-meter-1.html

http://www.jondon.com/strainer-chemical-draw-hose.html


http://www.jondon.com/ea-ha-3-16-x-38-1-4fjic-x-1-4fjic.html

A bunch of brass elbows and connectors to put it all together

What other things should I look at, or issues / concerns / problems I should be looking for?

I think he's pricing the machine at $9500 which seems a little high but I don't know for sure. It doesn't have any extras like water softener or pump out. I didn't ask if he has the manual and service records but he did say he had some invoices for when he had the blower cleaned out? I'm wondering if that is secret code for rebuilt...

That's it for now.
Thanks guys.
Bill

Click to expand quote
Price seam high!

Photos!!!

 

[dgardner]

The Stockwell's are the 405 gurus here:

@Lee Stockwell
@Justin Stockwell

One of them will be along shortly I imagine....

 

[Jimmy L]

Probably the float needs replacement or that thermo valve needs replaced or incoming water pressure is too high : )

 

[Vincent Feehan]

Float issue is simple fix, need a inline pressure regulator and new seat in the float assembly..Chem pump depends on what is missing from the front panel. The chem pump is like 280.00 online at windtrax, dultmeir sales. Hope he left the swagelock valves on dash. Price is kinda high, but theses units are solid if it hasn't been froze ever

 

[Lee Stockwell]

At that price everything should work.

The pressure gauge likely not frozen while running.

Sam and Jimmy are correct.

 

[Desk Jockey]

You can find cheaper with those hours. Check around but in my opinion he is thousands over what its worth. Hell, you have at least several hundred in solution system parts alone.

However if he comes back down to earth on the price the Nissan has years and years of life left on her.

Likely the float valve shut off need a new rubber tip or adjustment.

Yes the water pressure gauge is the first to go in cold weather followed by the exhaust preheater. Then the final stage HE which if damaged will set you back at least three bills.

If you're serious I'd pay to have it checked out by your local distributor. He can also estimate the replacement parts. Have him pressure check the system just in case. Better spending a little to find out what you really have than jumping with both feet.

 

[SamIam]

405 Manual online

http://www.prochem.com/Upload/KCPro...2c44_67-945324_PerformerPlus_Performer405.pdf

http://www.jondon.com/nsearch/?q=Prochem+405+parts

I pasted Jondon 405 parts link above they have a bunch a great prices.

 

[JS41035]

At that price everything should work. I never believe the machine froze while running excuse. It does happen. But you have to assume the worst when buying.
The chemical injection system will be a bit to fix. The Chemical pump and adapter to the cat will be around 300. Add new high pressure line from the Chem pump to the check valve that is after the temp sending unit on the left of the machine. Also figure on replacing all the clear tubing from the flow meter to the Chem pump. If you decide to add a chemical pump to the cat pump remember to drill a small hole in the check valve on the low pressure manifold. The chemical pump diaphragm will not receive the pulses needed if that isn't done.
The tank overflow is a pretty classic 405 problem. Easy fix with an 8 dollars part.
As far as seeing him using a pressure wand to clean. This isn't a very good indicator of the overall health of the pressure system. A cat 5cp ( the pump most likely on the unit) will still make decent gpm even if it needs to be rebuilt.
With out a pressure gauge you just can't tell. He may have been using 600psi.
The bottom line for me is that for 9500 I expect a pristine unit that is missing nothing.

 

[JS41035]

I hate when I accidentally agree with dad.

 

[Captain Morgan]

A big "thank you" to everyone that responded.

Thanks for the links Sam! I went to JonDon's site before posting my thread but wasn't sure if I was looking at the correct parts. I also looked at the manuals online too.

I didn't believe him when he told me it froze while cleaning either...so I appreciate you backing up my suspicions.

Even in perfect working order I thought the price was a little high.

Richard, you said there were units available with even lower hours? Really? Where? I thought about bringing it to JonDon in New Hampshire. Its nearly a 3 hour drive but probably well worth the money in the long run.

He sent me a couple pictures. I'll see if I can find them, get him to take/send more or maybe go over and take some myself.

Thanks again. I'll post more info as I get it.
Captain M

 

[Desk Jockey]

I'd have to look around. This one is more but has been completely refurbished.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/Prochem-Perfo...-Machine-Full-Set-Up-/231829698613?nav=SEARCH

 

[SamIam]

Damn that's purty.

 

[Desk Jockey]

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/for/5409303005.html

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/for/5393606024.html

http://denver.craigslist.org/bfs/5391142754.html

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/bfs/5383081409.html

 

[JS41035]

Lots of new paint and brass on those refurbished units. It's funny how they refurbish them and never touch the inside of the motor.

 

[Captain Morgan]

Quite a range in prices $5500 to $9500. I only saw one list hours at 6100 with a reburbed engine for $8500.

I'll see if I can arrange to make a video(s) of it running or get some really good close ups.

I know the 405 is an excellent single wand and good but not great dual wand system.

I can't swing for the fences for a lightly used Everest or Sapphire 570. I thought this might be a good system to bridge the gap and get me into the dual wand arena at a reasonable price if I can get him down.

Sorry...getting way ahead of myself. I do that.
Thanks again..
Captain M.

 

[MerCrewser]

I love my 405. It has been a reliable work horse for the 14 yrs I've had it. However, I wouldn't pay more than 5k for a used one. Why? Because it's an old machine and parts will be getting difficult to come by. Who knows what the condition of the governor, waste tank, water pump etc is really in. Also, no chem system and no apo is a deal breaker. You'll be doing a lot of engineering and spending more money than you think. I'd look for a used Apex gtx for that money. Much simpler heating system , no external governor, and an aluminum frame.

 

[Captain Morgan]

MerCruiser, What do you mean..engineering? Do you mean "pimping" the 405 to improve or increase performance? Or taking a lot of things apart to make sure everything is in good safe working order? Or time spent putting back on the chem pump system..

Thanks for clarifying.
Capt. Morgan

 

[MerCrewser]

No pimping, just Time spent putting the chem system back in as well as other issues you're likely to find like:

Corrosion in the waste tank, I doubt the air pump works $300, condition of the governor. Again, nothing terrible, I just wouldnt go over 5k.

 

[MerCrewser]

An apo is a MUST with this machine. It bypasses lots of water. You'll be dumping after every few rooms and forget about a big commercial job. You'll be shutting down to dump every 45 min

Again not terrible, but when my apo is kaput it's a priority to fix. Infact, I have recently bought a spare back up off eBay so it's never down.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

I routed all three bypasses back to my fresh tank, and eliminated the water box as well.

No problems.

 

[Captain Morgan]

MerCrewser,

Air pump? Where is the air pump located and what is it used for..chemical injection system or pump out?
Waste tank corrosion? Its made of steel but not stainless I guess along with the frame? That must be a concern for any machine pushing 15+ yes old.

I worked with a 405 in a limited basis before when i was just getting started. I recall on some commercial jobs (it seemed like) the lead tech or owner would be running out every 30 to 45 minutes to dump the waste tank because it would shut down. I thought it was just the two of us filling up the tank from flushing the hell out of greasy restaurant carpets.. but in retrospect it seems to make sense that it was from dumping excess hot water to the waste tank.

Why does the 405 dump so much?

How does the heating system on the 405 compare to the Apex GTX you mentioned would be a better purchase?

Thanks.. I'm learning a lot about this machine.. warts and all.

 

[JS41035]

The air pump forces air into the catalytic core of the engine exhaust HX.
If the machine is filling up that fast something is wrong. Most likely the temp solenoid was stuck open. Or the water box temp valve was stuck open.
I had my temp bypass on a three way valve. It could dump hot water ,back to the fresh water tank, into the waste tank, or on the ground under the truck.
I have a 2010 apex. It is not as hot as a 405. But it is an awesome unit. Mine has 1700 hours.

 

[Desk Jockey]

http://used.jondon.com/view-classif...chem-performer-405-package/ok/tulsa/slide-in/

http://used.jondon.com/view-classif...and-van-package/washington/lynnwood/slide-in/

 

[Captain Morgan]

Thanks Richard!
Aside from JonDon and Interlink and the couple of listing posted in this thread who are the most trustworthy and reputable used truckmount dealers or are they like all shady used car salesmen and its simply buyer beware and due diligence?
No offense to any shady used car salesmen among us... LOL

 

[Desk Jockey]

LOL

I'd like to say most are trust worthy and I believe that to be true. However as the purchaser it is on you to do your due diligence and either you check them out or pay to have someone thoroughly check them.

 

[Captain Morgan]

Here is a link to the guy selling his business/equipment.. He said make him an offer that wasn't an insulting low ball offer and he'd consider it.

Valued at $18k!! I didn't make an offer.
I told him I'd continue looking around for now.

$5k is the high offer range according to those who know the most... after looking at the picture(s) do you still think that?

https://maine.craigslist.org/bfs/5438308897.html

Bill

 

[Nate The Great]

I seen it posted on ebay also... 9.5k is still too much... You'd still be better off buying on from @John Olson refurbished...

 

[Desk Jockey]

Pass!

Looks like a rust bucket. There have to be better units to purchase.

 

[Captain Morgan]

I have a feeling he is still carrying a large loan balance and is hoping some know-nuthin like me will come me along and be hypnotized by the low hours or something...

Unfortunately John doesn't carry a large supply of mounts.. but when he gets one.. damn! They are righteous works of art!!
Thanks Nate, Richard and everyone else for the confirmation of what I was thinking.