Question for northern cleaners with direct drives

[mirf]

I have a white magic 1200 and never had a problem. We do not use the Quick connects in the front because the solution hose reel is connected to the unit. The wrapped hose stays hot always.
I do have a port but mostly use it in bad areas for security. I think you may have the supply hose from the tank resting directly on the floor and iceing up sending some frozen water to the pump or blocking it altogether. We stopped working when it is that cold and do not go out over 95degrees.

Every year older I get the narrower the operating range gets. My wife and I would drive 1 hour to a restaurant any longer either.

 

[Mark Saiger]

Here is a link to the Butler port hole. Very nice piece by the way. Machining is great by the way. You have to see one in person to understand the cost of it.

http://butlersystem.com/pop_hose-guide-and-security-door.html

and worth every dollar in my opinion.

http://butlersystem.com/pop_second-hose-guide-and-security-door.html

 

[Dale]

Hi Dave:

StemGenies and Butlers dont need no tranfer pumps! Tell em Bob. But when they use a plunger pump and mount it high-well.......

Seriously Dave, except for that 1 "defect" I'd love to stop by and check out that Man's Man machine some time.

Sincerley,
Dale- also in mid TN

 

[Ray Burnfield]

Usually a loss of heat is caused by air in the heat exchanger or a problem with the thermostat on the motor. I would bleed the exchanger. Open the spigot on the exchanger and add coolant to the radiator. When you have a steady stream of coolant coming out of the spigot your done. The coolant reservoir could look full but that is no indication that the exchanger is at the proper level.

 

[knoxclean]

I think I can prevent the freeze issue with the info here, thanks. It will most likely not come up often as we rarely see those temps but if it happens again we're ready. As for the heat from the machine I don't know what the deal is. Still only got 175 at the machine temp. We burped the system before we sent the van out and I was hoping that would do it but no luck, so now I guess we call Sapphire.

 

[GCCLee]

This is an exhaust exchanger correct?

 

[John Olson]

I'll call you david. I must have missed the heat issue in your email. We got steady 220+ here and we drove and burped that unit several times but I did ask you to drive it and see if it is needing anymore burping.Not an excuse or transfer of responsibility by any means. I'm with ray maybe there is still and air pocket. And pork chop the man who designed this machine ( Ron Williams)was here installing the machine so no it had nothing to do with installation. There have been a few issues david should have never had to deal with that had nothing to do with the installation, while minor there are a big deal to the person who just bought it. No one should have to tighten up anything on a new machine. It has taken a couple of days to get a response but Sapphire is aware and will be contacting me and David and with this heat issue I'm going to move it up to tomorrow. TW will call you after we get on the phone with Mike Roden and or Ron Williams in the morning. Until then drive the van or let it run for 30 minutes then check the coolant again.

 

[bob vawter]

what he sed.......

 

[knoxclean]

I waited for your call John??? TW never called either.... Ummm

 

[John Olson]

Huh? Didn't he talk to you this afternoon after he talked to Ron??

 

[John Olson]

We need to check actual temps at the machine and wand. I'm going to send you a lie detector. At 20 degrees your going to see a drop in temps and longer then normal times to heat up because of the inlet water temp and your van running cooler with the colder air temps but we want to see exactly what your getting. The only thing that can effect the tempatute loss outside of environmental forces is an air pocket in he HX but if that was the case you would see the vans temps being irregular. This is what he was supposed to have talked to you about. Again I'll call in the morning with some things to check and I'll send the gauge to get more accurate readings. I should have talked to Mike Roden about the video/emails you sent me by then as well

 

[hogjowl]

You have a SS dealer very near to you. Surely this is a warranty situation. Just schedule for TCS to fix it and be done with it.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

You have a SS dealer very near to you. Surely this is a warranty situation. Just schedule for TCS to fix it and be done with it.

220 miles from Knoxville to Atlanta isn't very close.

 

[Jim Martin]

How well was the machine running BEFORE it froze.......t...

does the freezing cold temps that the fan on the van pulls across the radiator effect the machine temps...The CDS units use the anti freeze from the van to help boost temps...
and when it got colder ..I was not producing the heat like I would in the summer.......

is the machine dumping into the waste tank...transfer pump...QD's froze....chances are the therm valve may have got screwed up also....seems those things can be temperamental at times...

 

[knoxclean]

We waited all day and we had to call because TW never called. He couldn't help because he said he was not too familiar with the 1200's because their new. OK I understand that. We called Ron Williams at Sapphire and he went through all the basic stuff. Then it got insulting with questions like "maybe your running the solution line through snow and at 500 feet of line"? Come on really ? He suggested we didn't give the van enough time to warm up. I knew that wasn't the case but for the sake of testing it we drove the van for 30 minutes then started the machine keyed the wand for 20 minutes and no change ( and that was inside a warm garage) and it was in the 40's outside. (Yes we had the exhaust vented outside with exhaust hose) So after all was said and done he said he was out of answers.

John we have been back in the 40's and even a few 50's for temps so that is not the issue. The lie detector won't help much. It's not hot plain and simple. I can use my fingers for that and it's just warm.

Jim We could not get over 170 before the transfer pump issue either. We did 4 jobs before the cold snap with temps in the 50's and we never got above 170

I understand sometimes new machines have issues and it's most likely simple and I don't want to make a big deal out of it. I just don't think I should have to wrench on a $50,000 plus brand new machine any more. I have over 20 hours of working on it taking up my nights and a few Saturday afternoons. I shouldn't have to do anymore. I think Sapphire needs to send someone out to fix it.

 

[Desk Jockey]

It has to be minor but you're right its always frustrating when its new no matter what it is. In this case being a unit just makes it worse.

Hopefully they can get it figured out over the phone and you can be on your way to higher temps. Those machines are simple machines something somewhere has changed (perhaps in the delivery) or is being over looked. ???

Hang in there David, hopefully in a few days this will all be behind you.

 

[FredC]

I can also understand the frustration.....

but I can see where someone could be at a loss for answers. There just isn't a lot to the heating system of that unit.

If the temp mixing valve is functioning properly (and is closed) and the system doesn't have air in it that really doesn't leave much other than a faulty t-stat

 

[John Olson]

TW is calling Ron to see what temps you should be running at. As Fred said there just isn't much to that system. I understand your frustration. the loose fittings from the factory shouldn't have happened and they are addressing those at the production level but there is nothing we can do after the fact except apologies. As for the temperature we will see what Ron says and go from there.

 

[hogjowl]

220 miles from Knoxville to Atlanta isn't very close.

It's a hell of a lot closer than Saly Lake City.

Couldn't understand why he drove across country in the first place?

Unless Olsin paid him to shop there.

 

[John Olson]

Marty don't you have your own problems to worry about? No that it is any of your business but this deal with David was a win win win or should have been. His heat issue doesn't make sense. His other issues shouldn't have happened. I have no excuse that will make it better for David but when human beings are involved shit happens. Sapphire has the info and will address the loose fittings. The other stuff is a priority for us and personally it needs to be handled off the boards. Hashing it out here doesn't accomplish anything but misunderstanding.

 

[dealtimeman]

I agree as I don't understand all shit stirring. Sapphire will handle the issue as they have shown to do with past issues and John is being very responsive, so again why the shit stirring?


Don't you need to be looking for belts for your unit?

 

[Russ T.]

I've only talked to John on the phone 1 time. Super helpful to me while I was shopping around for a used Butler (I thought that's what I wanted). I have no personal ties with him and still continue to order from my closest Interlink but Superior was one of the first calls I made when I was in the market for a Truckmount. He is well known for his excellent service and thoroughly gone through used machines. So much so that I was certainly willing to fly out there to buy from him. I ended up buying a Cleanco from a private seller in KC but I just wanted to chime in on the experience I had with John.


The Clean Machine

 

[FB7777]

Ias others have said, this really shouldn't be that complicated to figure out

First I would check to see if the hot cold mix valve was open to allow hot water to flow from heat exchanger

Second is there a separate bypass for the blower exhaust heat , if so make sure it is open

3 rd. Go under truck and see if both radiator lines are hot entering and exiting the heat exchanger

If not , it might need to be bled or its a thermostat issue

Assuming at installation, the machine registered 220 degrees and held before going out the door, what else could it be?

 

[Desk Jockey]

All good trouble shooting points Fred!

 

[FredC]

I

what else could it be?

thats the whole system...

I'd say possibly an error in routing if hoses were detached after the freezing issues but he said it started before the cold snap

 

[GCCLee]

1.What Thermostat does the van have in it?

2. What temp is the thermal relief valve

3. Is their a cold water bypass on the HX?

 

[bob vawter]

1.What Thermostat does the van have in it?

2. What temp is the thermal relief valve

3. Is their a cold water bypass on the HX?

Is their a cold water bypass on the HX

it's "there".......

and WTF would you run HX lines...."under the truck"?
never seen THAT!

 

[GCCLee]

it's "there".......

and WTF would you run HX lines...."under the truck"?
never seen THAT!

Do huh w the HX lines?

No, No, No you don't do that!

 

[FredC]

=bob vawter;4264823]it's "there".......

and WTF would you run HX lines...."under the truck"?
never seen THAT!

My Pro2000 lines were under the truck.........can't say it caused any issues

 

[bob vawter]

My Pro2000 lines were under the truck.........can't say it caused any issues

rain ..snow...slush...sharp rocks..... road debris...grease ..oil....freezing wind......and
the occasonal dED possum road kill!