Sometimes, you just have to put your foot down...at the risk of customer service.

[PrimaDonna]

Those of you that follow know we do our best to meet our customers expectations and provide exceptional customer service. But every once in a while, the client expectations aren't communicated clearly.

We provided a quote to a client to strip their floor, clean it and reapply a product they use in house that they told us had to be used. We did not promise a certain outcome but they assumed it was going to give a gloss finish (why, I don't know since the product they had been using and wanted us to use wasn't glossy to begin with, but I digress).

Called the day after we did the job, and the contact (that is the one we initially met and set the whole thing up with) said the floors look great! He called us the next day to say, we need you to come in, "they" aren't happy with the outcome. That we should have presented them with other options (why or how, I don't know since they didn't ask us for them).

I'm sorry, "they" aren't, but we did exactly what you asked and documented what could happen once we stripped and cleaned the floor. Someone had to have all that go across their desk and approved it. No one said this was an unacceptable outcome and asked what other options there would be or asked what type of "finish" the process would result in. We went and met with the powers that be. Then the whole story came out. We didn't have the right people in the room during the initial meeting. If they assumed their representative that set this up knew that they wanted a certain look, or if they communicated that to him and he never to us, we will never know. But somewhere along the line, someone had an expectation that never made its way to us. And now they wanted us to fix it. The floors would need to be stripped and cleaned again, in prep for a different process to get them the outcome they wanted, but we don't offer. There was question whether we would be part of that process or not in prepping the floor for the 3rd party that would be doing that step, since they don't offer it and need the floor prepped.

I had to send the following email after two meetings and an hour long call with them. How do you think it was received?

(Just wanted to share an example of when we had to stand our ground. I'll let you know how it turned out, cause this is all over and done with now, but I'm interested to know if you think I shot my foot off or not. Sometimes it's a risk you take)

XXX,

I appreciate the time you took to speak with me on the phone today. I believe we need to agree to disagree on some of the points we discussed regarding communication of expectations during the initial discussion of the scope of work. We can't change what has happened to this point and we have two different perspectives, but desire to get some closure and do what we can to preserve our relationship with XXX.

We have considered your request to reduce the cost for the work we completed by $$$. We still stand firm that we performed the service as proposed, documented issues that could be uncovered during our service in our estimate (which was accepted) and there was no fault in our workmanship. We will not be held responsible for a desired outcome that wasn't communicated to us, nor promised by us. However, we are willing to make a concession in good faith to maintain the integrity of our relationship with XXX.

We will credit the invoice for $$$. However, the proposal I sent to XXX XXXX yesterday and to you this morning, would not stand if the credit is issued. Our concession for that option was to not charge you to strip the floors a second time if you are having us come in to prep them for the (third party) process. If Burdick's is removed from the process from this point forward, we will apply the credit. If you want us to prep the floors for the (third party) process, then we will extend the latest proposal (no charge to strip the floors a second time, but no credit on the initial invoice).

We are going to remove ourselves from assisting with the(third party)process completely since we don't have experience with it and don't want to assume responsibility if the results aren't what you desire. We cannot in good faith promise an desired outcome without having ever performed the service.

If we are not involved in prepping the floors, you will need to coordinate with the XXXXX and folks at (third party) how you plan to strip the floor and clean in preparation for their process. I have spoken with XXXX and he confirmed that they personally would not strip and clean and the floor to prep for the (third party)process. However, he can offer assistance in helping you determine how to get this accomplished.

You need to determine if your costs will be better managed by getting the credit and sourcing someone else to strip and prep the floors, or leaving the invoice as it stands and having us do the prep work and offer the stripping a second time at no charge. Since we are removing ourselves from the (third party) process, the machines needed to perform that work will also need to be sourced. This something you will need to work out with XXXXX and the (third party) folks. I wanted to mention that so you can plan accordingly with XXXXX to have all the equipment needed.

Please feel free to call me if you would like to discuss. We look forward to your decision based on the options presented.

So....what kind of response do you think we got?

 

[Desk Jockey]

Interesting, have they taken any of the responsibility for the miscommunication on their part? Ya know some people are never wrong.

I think you explained yourself well, I think it will really depend on how solid your relationship is with these folks. If its a good one this will just be a small bump in the road and your relationship should continue.

If you are fairly new to these folks, then you maybe the scapegoat for somebody's mistake. Unfair for sure but rather than admit they were wrong to their superiors, its much easier to dump the current situation squarely on you.

 

[Mikey P]

let this be a lesson for everyone here.



Don't mess with VCT for the 1st time on high profile /Gob'ment cheese projects.


Practice at your grandma's house.

 

[hogjowl]

Jeeze ... I only have a couple of minutes between jobs.

I can't be expected to read a WOMAN diatribe in that amount of time.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I can't be expected to read a WOMAN diatribe in that amount of time.

So is this going to be continued in Atlanta? Might be worth the price of admission.

 

[PrimaDonna]

Don't mess with VCT for the 1st time on high profile

And there we have yet another "assumption"/expectation.

This was NOT VCT.

 

[renegade_cowboy]

Here's my take on it..

The company is partially to blame by not foreseeing the customers expectations regarding the finishing. It's a good learning process for you with prequalifing jobs like that.

I good way to handle it is to say okay.. there was a miscommunication, you wanted a finish that wasn't included in with the bid or a service we perform.. at this point you should sub contract the service out to someone who can. With this you are still maintaining control of the situation vs losing control with having them solve the problem with who will do the finish.

Let them know that the finish they wanted to have done is $xxx.. you would then prep the floor at no cost to them and have them pay you for the sub contractor. With this you won't have to worry about losing the account to the company that is doing the finish.

Simple solution without all the meetings and emails.

 

[PrimaDonna]

Interesting, have they taken any of the responsibility for the miscommunication on their part?

My point EXACTLY.

The FIRST thing I said to the head honcho when we were all in the same room together was....."I'm sorry that WE didn't do a good job during our intake interview uncovering your needs. We own up to some to some ownership in this for this not having not done that......"

Does that change your tune?

 

[Mikey P]

And there we have yet another "assumption"/expectation.

This was NOT VCT.

Terazzo...same thing when it come to stripping and recoating

 

[PrimaDonna]

So is this going to be continued in Atlanta?

I won't make you all wait that long. I'll share some of the finer points in person.....

Let this play out here for a bit and then I'll tell y'all.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Does that change your tune?

I take that they have not.

I'm not blaming anyone, miscommunication will happen occasionally no matter how clear you are making yourself. Some people do not listen well and take for granted you know what they are speaking about.

I merely wondered if they took any on themselves or if it was all on you.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Sharing "finer points"...

 

[WillS]

Lets see it! Does the response still blame you and then ask if you can do it over again for free?

 

[D Luke]

Was this the job for the Pope?

 

[rhino1]

I don't think you owe them a thing, considering THEY specified the product you were to use on their floors. This used to happen when I worked in industrial construction, when the materials were specified on the bid anything negative had to be worked out between the manufacturer/supplier and the end use customer(property owner.)

Their expectation of end results really shouldn't matter since they picked the product, they should have known more about it than you.

I would guess they paid you to go away and avoid having it come out that it was their fault.

 

[bob vawter]

Sharing "finer points"...

 

[Hoody]

No light switches will be involved

 

[Jim Pemberton]

Until Meg is able to tell us the rest of the story, I think one point that could be worth sharing is this:

(Note: I don't know enough about Burdick's service offerings to say if this applies to them, to be very clear)

For the past several years, hard surface floor care has moved from being a "building service contractor" service to one carpet cleaners readily offer. Most cleaners start by doing tile and grout cleaning in homes, then graduate to offering their services to commercial/institutional locations. The next natural step is for cleaners to start to attempt to clean other hard surfaces, including both VCT and terrazzo, among many others.

Its at this stage that cleaners find themselves dealing with the following issues that might be new to them:

1. Hard, reflective surfaces rather than absorbent textured surfaces. Customers sometimes want a level of shine to such surfaces that defies reason. One favorite comment I heard from a VCT/Terrazzo/Marble expert I know is: "They want to read the writing on the light bulb in the reflection off the floor!" Managing such expectations takes both expertise and diplomacy.

2. Pre-existing Finish Residues: Most carpet cleaners learn about what a "pain in the assets" unwanted floor finish can be when they encounter it on ceramic tile and grout. When a cleaning service is called in to restore a vct/terrazzo floor that has been serviced by someone else, dealing with the finish that has been applied before can be one of the biggest challenges. It takes both experience and expertise to navigate through these challenges, neither of which most carpet cleaners who just dabble in hard floor care begin to possess.

3. High Labor and Material Costs: Many building service contractors offset the time needed for finish to dry between coats by having staff vacuum carpet, empty waste cans, etc. The typical carpet cleaner who is called upon to "strip and wax" a floor doesn't know that secret, and wonders how to make money with such a time consuming process.

The hard floor experts here likely have a lot more to say on this subject, and I hope they do.

But for those not experienced in this field, I'll leave you with this thought:

Question: "Do you know how to make a small fortune stripping and "waxing" VCT/Terrazzo?"

Answer: "Start with a large fortune!"

 

[FB7777]

Until Meg is able to tell us the rest of the story

2. Pre-existing Finish Residues: Most carpet cleaners learn about what a "pain in the assets" unwanted floor finish can be when they encounter it on ceramic tile and grout. When a cleaning service is called in to restore a vct/terrazzo floor that has been serviced by someone else, dealing with the finish that has been applied before can be one of the biggest challenges. It takes both experience and expertise to navigate through these challenges, neither of which most carpet cleaners who just dabble in hard floor care begin to possess.
!"

Instead of the " rest of the story" I'd prefer the other side of the story

Acceptable shine or not, most floor issues/complaints are due to incomplete old finish removal

Before and after pics?

 

[renegade_cowboy]

Whoops didn't see that you had to use their product.. changes things a lot.. but you should just sub out what you can't do to bring resolve.

 

[PrimaDonna]

Some other information that was uncovered at the meeting meeting with all the key players there....

We brought in their distributor to the meeting as well. He is the one that sells them the product they wanted us to use. Since we weren't doing on going maintenance, we invited the distributor that sells them the product to the meeting so he could let them know their options and what they could purchase through him to maintain the floors or get the look they wanted.

They have been using this product they asked us to re-apply for a long time. 5 years ago, they had two people in house that were maintaining the floor, with this product. They were producing a sheen....but no one could tell us what they were doing or how. Those guys left, and the floor never looked the same...for the past 5 years. Again, never said to us in the beginning, cause then we would have asked, "what did the floor look like when you were happy with the results". Our direction was to get the floor clean, cause it looked awful from years of maintaining incorrectly and build up of the top coat. And the floor did come up clean. Like I said, when we called the follow day, our contact person said it looked great.

Long story short, they have CASES of this product. The distributor that attended the meeting with us, told them the product they are using is WRONG for the floor to get the results they want. He said it's more of a prep coat for a top coat. If another product is applied on top, then burnished, they can get the look they want, HOWEVER, there is maintenance and it needs to be stripped and reapplied on a fairly regular basis to maintain that look (likely once a month or every other month based on their foot traffic). Not an option for them with the in house labor and equipment they have. Also, a very high traffic 24 hour facility. They want something done once and doesn't have to be done again, but the area has to remain open at all times. Tough thing to get what they want under these circumstances.

When the head guy (client) asked the distributor, why they have cases of it then, if it's not the right product, the rep said it was before I was your rep and I don't know why that is what someone recommended you use. Had he known that this was the product they were using for this surface, he would have told them it wasn't right for that area. The head guy point blank looked at him and said "So are you going to buy it all back from us?". The distributor recommended a "new" process that could accomplish these results, but it was nothing we (Burdick's) had heard of or had done before. We then had a meeting the following day with the distributor and the factory rep for this new system. The factory rep for this other process was present. He, trying to help out his distributor and ultimately get the client happy, offered to come in and do the process (but with our help). However, the floor needed to be prepped for that, meaning stripped and cleaned again. We, not having any experience with their process, and being told point blank by the client "we can't be doing any experimentation on this floor, it needs to be done once and done right", removed ourselves from helping out with that process. No way we want to be a part of something we've never done and be held responsible for the outcome.

So, as you can see, many moving parts. We are only a piece of the puzzle. I'm not going to accept responsibility for something we didn't cause to begin with and never promised to give a certain result. It is not a product we were familiar with, but we were told to use. We called the distributor and did research on the product in terms of how to remove, and reapply. We purchased what we needed to apply it to the manufacture specifications.
They wanted us to accept responsibility for not giving them a shiny floor. We gave them a proposal for a stripped, cleaned floor and to reapply the product they asked us to use. We documented that the floor would have inconsistencies, damage, staining etc. that would remain That was all in the proposal and we were given the green light to do it anyway. We did exactly as we proposed, yet when it was all said and done, "someone" wasn't happy, it became our problem.

Then the follow up call after the meeting with them twice and they were telling us that we should have "presented them with other options". I explained the only option we knew of to get the floor to that state (which we didn't know they wanted) was a multi step, multi day process that would require the area to be shut down. Since we didn't know they wanted that result, we couldn't offer it as an option, and we would have told them it's not something we offer. If we had known, we wouldn't recommend a process we know is impossible to do in that area due to the restrictions. I reminded them that we all learned about the process that their distributor recommended, together at the same meeting. I can't recommend a process I've never seen, heard of or even new existed, yet he kept telling me we were at fault for not offering other options. I kept reminding him he received a detailed line item proposal and asked if the floor wasn't giving them the results they wanted with the product they had been using, how could they expect that us doing the same thing would yield a different result.

Never once did they admit that they may have some responsibility or a communication break down on their end. So, that email I posted, was the result of that last phone call.

After I sent the email, I got a call from the head guy......What he said will be in the next "update".

 

[Dolly Llama]

We called the distributor and did research on the product in terms of how to remove, and reapply. We purchased what we needed to apply it to the manufacture specifications.

how/why then didn't you determine it was the wrong product ??
(base sealer and not a finish top coat)
and advise them of such

HOWEVER, there is maintenance and it needs to be stripped and reapplied on a fairly regular basis to maintain that look (likely once a month or every other month based on their foot traffic).

a "strip" every month??
Is that an assumption on your part??

yet when it was all said and done, "someone" wasn't happy, it became our problem.

no surprise there.
You charged top dollar plus and presented yourself as "professionals" that could deliver.
You did research, bought the correct applicators , but somehow "missed" you were applying the wrong product??



so let me see if i have this right...

you went into a job, not knowing what you were using/doing.
but stated in the proposal;

"we're great, and we charge a boat load of money because I'm a great salesperson.
but it's gonna look like sheeit when we're done cause we don't have a clue what we're doing and using"

does that sum it up??

if they agreed to that, they own you money.
but forgive me for my skeptical nature..... i can't help but think there's more to this story

..L.T.A.

 

[FB7777]

LOL, Fricken love Capitoni...

Straight shooter that rarely misses the target.

 

[hogjowl]

Giggle

 

[WillS]

What was the sq. ft. for this job? Total cost?

 

[PrimaDonna]

how/why then didn't you determine it was the wrong product ??
(base sealer and not a finish top coat)
and advise them of such

It wasn't the wrong product for the type of floor, just the wrong product to get the look they wanted and should have been paired with another. And how would we know. We called, explained what we knew about the floor and the request from the client for us to apply and asked them what we needed to know and do. They told us the best method to apply the product. We followed the manufacture recommendation.

a "strip" every month??
Is that an assumption on your part??

eventually it would need to be stripped likely yearly, but maybe more. But the top coat scuffed, reapplied monthly. My bad for not breaking out the stripping and reapp of the top coat the way I wrote it previously.

You did research, bought the correct applicators , but somehow "missed" you were applying the wrong product??

Again, not the wrong product...but wrong for what they expected as a final outcome. There are places that just use this product on the surface because the want the seal/protection and not a shiny floor, and that product would be appropriate for that. During our call to manufacture, we told told them what we were trying to accomplish and on what type of floor and why (customer request). We followed their application recommendations. That was as far as the discussion with them went. All we told them is what we were applying it to, how it had been done in the past, and asked if there was a better way they recommend it to be done. They said apply evenly with a sprayer and then use flat microfiber mop.

When we invited the rep from the distributor in, he was the one that said that product was wrong for the results they wanted (not wrong to use on that type of floor). We could get the results the wanted, but adding another step and burnishing and with continued maintenance, but they didn't want/couldn't do that in house and with the traffic in the area.

but stated in the proposal;

Here is what the estimate said:

Notes:

That is what they got...and gave the green light to.

so let me see if i have this right...

sounds about right to me....

 

[PrimaDonna]

Let's play fair....

Who can find out more about this product then we did, if this is all you have to go on (photo provided by client)....

I'll even give you a head start....

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=503+corporation

http://www.503corp.com/

So, please don't call them, I don't want these folks to be bombarded by phone calls. Not fair to do to them to prove a point. This is all we had to go on. We called, spoke to a very nice young lady who "didn't know" about the product and couldn't find it in the system and would "try" to find someone to call us back.

When we finally spoke with someone....well I already posted the information they provided.

And this pic came from the client. We told them we weren't sure what they were using and needed to find out more about it if they wanted us to reapply it.

 

[rhino1]

Well the head guy sounds like an A-hole... why don't you just top coat it with a good finish, burnish it out, and walk away, probably take 3 to 4 hours? There are plenty of good products to do that with and no real reason not to do it. As far as ongoing maintenance, tough shit. Lots of people install these hard surfaces because they were sold on them as maintenance free.... that's not realistic, and their ignorance shouldn't cost you money.

Just one suggestion...spell check your quote, I see about 4 or 5 words that are spelled incorrectly.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Spellchecker probably wouldn't catch all of them. Wrong word, correctly spelled.

 

[rhino1]

It is the lack of the Oxford comma that bothers me the most...

Oh, I just figured out the issue, the "mane entrance" is where the horses come in. No wonder the floor has problems!