Still need more volume...

[White-Magic rebuilder]

...went out with the guys today. Each truck is outfitted with 2 wands. 1 Ti wand w/6 o2 jets and 1 quad wand w/4 o2 jets. Still lose a lot of volume when we trigger both wands. I have replaced the hose coming out of the cat pump w/3/8's hose and noticed a small increase. I've turned up the pressure. However I't won't keep up with flow. Do I need to replace all my machine plumbing or wand plumbing? What's up?
Rob.

 

[Rex Tyus]

I don't experience any noticeable drop on my cleanco when we dual wand. We use 2 greenhorns with 5-02 jetting. I will take a look to verify how it is plumbed before I make suggestions. Is yours is a Cat 5cp ?

 

[SRI Cleaning]

R u using a white magic? I have pro 1600 and it doesnt have a fresh water pump. I was kind of dumb founded by it but it just uses the suction of the high pressure pump. i wonder if yours is the same and maybe thats why it cant draw enough water into it for 2 wands.

 

[adamh]

Lube your pressure regulator.

 

[White-Magic rebuilder]

I don't experience any noticeable drop on my cleanco when we dual wand. We use 2 greenhorns with 5-02 jetting. I will take a look to verify how it is plumbed before I make suggestions. Is yours is a Cat 5cp ?

Yes it is a 5 cp.

 

[White-Magic rebuilder]

R u using a white magic? I have pro 1600 and it doesnt have a fresh water pump. I was kind of dumb founded by it but it just uses the suction of the high pressure pump. i wonder if yours is the same and maybe thats why it cant draw enough water into it for 2 wands.

Yes a WM Triton LS. And it has no demand pump. Would that make a large difference?

 

[White-Magic rebuilder]

Lube your pressure regulator.

What difference would that make Adam?
Rob.

 

[SRI Cleaning]

Rob, i dont have any exprience with dual wanding, but i wouldnt be suprised at all if it was a lack of demand pump. In fact i would put money on it. it can probably suck enough water for one wand but when you start using two, it loses volume. Just a thought.

 

[White-Magic rebuilder]

Rob, i dont have any exprience with dual wanding, but i wouldnt be suprised at all if it was a lack of demand pump. In fact i would put money on it. it can probably suck enough water for one wand but when you start using two, it loses volume. Just a thought.

I think I will hook a garden hose up to it direct (50psi from house) and see if that makes a difference.
Rob.

 

[SRI Cleaning]

Good idea! let me know what you find out.

 

[Leslie Judson Jones]

your pump is running to slow, ck the RPM, ck the flow of the pump put a qc plug in the pressure line and time 1 min in a bucket , do you have a pulse in the pressure line if so you lost a piston.

 

[XTREME1]

I dual wand and never lose pressure my concern is the vac. I can't even tel when someone else is flowing. I do notice a loss in suction with more than one sucking at different lengths

 

[White-Magic rebuilder]

your pump is running to slow, ck the RPM, ck the flow of the pump put a qc plug in the pressure line and time 1 min in a bucket , do you have a pulse in the pressure line if so you lost a piston.

Thanks Les, how far apart would the pulse be?

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Spin the pump faster for more volume, all other things held equal. We've run one 30% over specs for two years with no problem.

It could blow up tomorrow, and I'd do it again....maybe 25% overdriven?

 

[White-Magic rebuilder]

Spin the pump faster for more volume, all other things held equal. We've run one 30% over specs for two years with no problem.

It could blow up tomorrow, and I'd do it again....maybe 25% overdriven?

And just how do you propose that I increase the rpms? It is preset at 3000 rpms!

 

[Bob Foster]

Change the pulley.

 

[White-Magic rebuilder]

Change the pulley.

What about the clutch, isn't that attached to the pulley Bob?

 

[Bob Foster]

http://www.catpumps.com/select/pdfs/5CP3120.pdf
I was thinking you could change the pump on the drive shaft - not the one on the pump.

 

[White-Magic rebuilder]

http://www.catpumps.com/select/pdfs/5CP3120.pdf
I was thinking you could change the pump on the drive shaft - not the one on the pump.

Bob your not gonna believe this. The pump went bad on my Triton and Cleaners Closet replaced it with a 5cp 2120@ 4 gpm's. This pump is supposed to be used at 950 rpms. My Triton runs at 2800 rpms. CRAP!

The WM website says they use the 5cp that delivers 5gpm. They shorted me and now my water is short. So typical of their service. :x

PS:Know where I can get a bigger pump at a reasonable price?

 

[Leslie Judson Jones]

I know what's wrong - your pump is running too fast and it is caveatting. You shouldn't feel any pulsing or cavitation pulses.
It needs to run 950 RPM if that is what the pump is rated for.

 

[RichardnTn]

With 20 total output at 500psi, according to http://pressurewashingusa.com/nozzlecharts.pdf
that is 7.1 gallons per minute.... check both wands by keying for 30 seconds in a large container and measure it... you may actually be exceeding the pump's capability... Richard R

The reference site has the formulas used to determine flow, gpm, jet size..

 

[Out of Character - 0]

If the pump is supposed to be run at 950 I'd bet white magic is running it at 700. Isn't 3000 rpms the motor or blower speed?

 

[White-Magic rebuilder]

I know what's wrong - your pump is running too fast and it is caveatting. You shouldn't feel any pulsing or cavitation pulses.
It needs to run 950 RPM if that is what the pump is rated for.

Your right Les,it does seem to cavitate. Their is a ton of pulses non stop. Gone thru several pressure regulators. So how can I fix this?

 

[White-Magic rebuilder]

If the pump is supposed to be run at 950 I'd bet white magic is running it at 700. Isn't 3000 rpms the motor or blower speed?

Yes 3k is the top speed.

 

[White-Magic rebuilder]

With 20 total output at 500psi, according to http://pressurewashingusa.com/nozzlecharts.pdf
that is 7.1 gallons per minute.... check both wands by keying for 30 seconds in a large container and measure it... you may actually be exceeding the pump's capability... Richard R

The reference site has the formulas used to determine flow, gpm, jet size..

Correct me if i'm wrong, but according to that chart if I want to run 20 flow (1 Ti wand w/6 02 jets & 1 quad wand w/4 02 jets) at 500 psi then I would need a 7 gpm pump.
Where can I get this pump?

 

[Jay D]

Balance it. Decrease flow on the ti-wand and increase pressure. go to 6 1.5 jets and your flow will be 9 on the ti. then increase psi a bit 550or 600 when using 2 wands. flow is great but the system has to balance with what you have available. My 4 jet 14" wand cleans great at 6 or 8 and 500 psi and provides plenty of flush. If I ran 2 wands alot I would decrease to 6 on both wands @600psi to balance with my 47 blower and 4 gallon per minute pump. Before flow became king 95% of people(and still do) used 04 and 06 flow on there wands and got great cleaning. Also remember at 600psi with 100 ft of hose the actual pressure at the wand is 400PSI. It drops the further out you go. Try it cuz it may work for you . :roll:

 

[White-Magic rebuilder]

Balance it. Decrease flow on the ti-wand and increase pressure. go to 6 1.5 jets and your flow will be 9 on the ti. then increase psi a bit 550or 600 when using 2 wands. flow is great but the system has to balance with what you have available. My 4 jet 14" wand cleans great at 6 or 8 and 500 psi and provides plenty of flush. If I ran 2 wands alot I would decrease to 6 on both wands @600psi to balance with my 47 blower and 4 gallon per minute pump. Before flow became king 95% of people(and still do) used 04 and 06 flow on there wands and got great cleaning. Also remember at 600psi with 100 ft of hose the actual pressure at the wand is 400PSI. It drops the further out you go. Try it cuz it may work for you . :roll:

I see your point Jay and I might do that until I get a larger pump. I want to run 20 flow on a regular basis! Now where's the best place to get a bigger pump?

 

[Greenie]

guys......let's suspend this crazy talk about 7 gal per minute, those charts that reflect those numbers are for pressure washing at 4000 psi, not carpet cleaning at 10-15% of that, you are gonna start a riot of misinformation.

Look at flow like this: 08 is a little more than 06, an 010 is a little more than 08, but 012 is NOT double of what 06 is, each increase is just a bump not a leap in flow rate for carpet cleaning.

All things considered, Money Pit is probably headed for the high flow (not high press.) 6.5 gpm cat pump, so start lookin' around, it's the same pump offered by V/AT, it'll support up to about 1600 psi or so and give you your full 2 gpm per wand you seek.

 

[Steve Smith]

What size are the hoses and fittings that feed the pressure pump?

 

[White-Magic rebuilder]

guys......let's suspend this crazy talk about 7 gal per minute, those charts that reflect those numbers are for pressure washing at 4000 psi, not carpet cleaning at 10-15% of that, you are gonna start a riot of misinformation.

Look at flow like this: 08 is a little more than 06, an 010 is a little more than 08, but 012 is NOT double of what 06 is, each increase is just a bump not a leap in flow rate for carpet cleaning.

All things considered, Money Pit is probably headed for the high flow (not high press.) 6.5 gpm cat pump, so start lookin' around, it's the same pump offered by V/AT, it'll support up to about 1600 psi or so and give you your full 2 gpm per wand you seek.

Good point!