Understanding Padding

[Ron Werner]

Ref the following situation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4zUvGf595c&feature=user

I know how I would have dealt with this, besides telling them to rip it up and replace it, but having never used the pad system, how many pads would it take to remove the soil from this carpet?
How many pads would be used in actual fact?
How long would this job take?
How long (how many passes) can a pad be used before its saturated? ie how much can a pad hold?


Watching this vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCnyXTFM ... re=related

That pad looks "saturated" to me. This is where I get thinking that it is smearing soil. That pad, IMO, was not picking anything up for the last minute of its use and was smearing and hiding soil.
Would that pad still keep picking up soil even when its "that" black??


Just trying to understand this system.

 

[John G]

I will give this "OLD" example, this is with the OLD style SLOW machines, cotton not Gladpads, and took longer than any other carpet I have cleaned in 35 years. The amount of soil in this carpet was rather incredible. Berber has a way of holding a ton of soil. You can see the timer, you can count the pads. Although now the GladPads hold 2-03 times as much per pad as those cotton did. I did not tape the vacuuming but it took about 15 minutes. Plus no a days no glider is used so more area for pickup as well.
Now days that same carpet would take about 1/3-1/2 the time to complete.
As far as the pad picking up, try dirtying a towel and see if it still wipes up soil, you will surprise yourself Ron.
http://www.geurkink.com/video/berber.wmv

 

[Blue Monarch]

John, you were supposed to vacuum for hours on end.

 

[John G]

You get an "F" Dirk, you didn't have time to watch the video! LOL

 

[John G]

Problem is Odin, you will never have enough WATER.

 

[Ron Werner]

well, I watched it all. I've vacuumed carpets that looks like that, one would take me an hour, one would take me 20 min.

AS far as the cleaning went, the first towel was BLACK inside of 30 seconds. Every towel used after that first got used for at least 60-90secs.
Now, I have some soiled rags in my truck, dirt and oil, and if they are dry, I can dry my hands on them. If they are wet, forget it. AS for wiping soil off my hands, I know I need to "wash" my hands because that towel only got off an portion that was "acceptable" at the time.
And there is NO WAY I'm taking in a slightly soiled towel to wipe a soil spot on a freshly cleaned carpet. I KNOW I'll just make it worse.

I would have liked to see just how much soil the new towel picked up when he went over the first area cleaned.

KNowing what I know about how HWE works, this video showed that padding will get the carpet to an acceptable "appearance", but I still have my doubts as to "clean".

PS I just wiped down the road soil off the box of my truck. I was keeping this vid in mind and on the most soiled area, I sprayed a little O2 from a pistol sprayer on this one bird spot, then kept going on the same 4sq inches of terry towel. It did "clean" the soil off, even when the towel became black, but I know I could have gotten it cleaner if I would have
A, used a non-soiled part of the cloth
B, wet it more, wiped it, and then rinsed.

Trying to keep an open mind to this.

 

[Padden McFadden]

Ron, do you keep cleaning untell you see clean water in your waist tank?

 

[John G]

KNOWING and THINKING are two totally different monkeys Ron, I understand that you do not KNOW padding, that is my area, but I would love to see the look on your face if I took a lightly soiled pad in and cleaned behind your SUPER DUPER HWE job, when the pad got dirty I would have to ask you WHY is it dirty, didn't you clean until the water was totally clear?

Everyone says, YOU CAN'T do that behind my work, but I got a tell ya I have done it all over the US with cleaners on this board and not. I have NEVER found a carpet that was so clean that padding wouldn't remove more, now you can say, sure, BUT I CAN remove more after you pad as well, and I say SO WHAT, when you are done, I will STILL get more soil.

So the truth is............... ?

 

[Rich]

35 years in the business and John has mastered OP and can out clean almost any HWE CC.

ON the same note 35 years of being a master HWE CC (not me) and they can out clean almost any OP CC.


My guess is that the machine you use is only a tool and what matters is how you use it. Having both is great but to master at least one is even better.

Rich Gallina

 

[Out of Character - 0]

Does a post hwe padding yield more soiled pads than a post padding padding?

 

[Ron Werner]

If I could see the water coming through the wand, I would keep cleaning till it was clear. I bet after seeing that vid you'd believe me 8) Thats one reason I was so slow with the Drimaster Uph tool. I'd clean till the water was clear.

Since no one is going to get a carpet "perfectly" clean, short of uninstalling it and taking it into a place where they can badger it, vacuum, and immerse wash it, I wouldn't be to upset if someone padded after my work and got soil on the pad. What would concern me is if the pad got "black".
I wonder how a carpet would look with a post HWE after padding?

As for padding in itself, when I saw the guy in vid change the pad after 30 secs and it was black, I thought "that's the way to pad!" It wasn't just brown, it was BLACK!! But then he took the flip side and commenced to clean for more than twice the area. I knew it was black after the first 30 seconds. Thats what bugs me about the system. Even though the carpet is looking clean after 30 secs, I know he's spinning a black pad and I'm wondering just how clean is it.

 

[Rich]

I can see where both sides are valid. If I think the carpet is that bad then then I would use both methods only I would pad first then HWE. The OP machine has a tamping motion even though it does spin and that's how the soil transfers to the cotton pads. I just change the pads a lot more often then normal.

They both work in IMO. Many of my clients like LMC however. If they're happy I'm happy and that's what matters to me. Like I said before, if the carpet is that bad I do use both methods.

 

[Greenie]

lots of guys used to post pad, but with high flow and high heat they got away from it as the pads came up cleaner and cleaner.

Mikey, what has been your experience? You used to post-Dob more than anyone?

 

[Rex Tyus]

Here is my suggestion, pad an area then clean a portion of the prepadded area. Clean an area then post pad a portion of the precleaned area. Let dry. Note the difference. Since appearance is what matters this should settle it.

 

[hogjowl]

I use both systems and have respect for both. What I have learned, over time, is that I can clean most carpets using either system. Some situations are tailor made for one, or the other.

Single system owners, or even single system mfg's, are not always a reliable source for information regarding either system. When a bias exists, often times the full truth comes up missing.

I love them both for different reasons.

 

[Brad_Smith]

I second greenie. When i post pad I just get a very, very light grey. OP is fine but HWE is just more efficient. OP is for high rise condo or commercial and those testing the "carpet cleaning" waters. I guess OP would be OK for cleaning light soil high end residential.

But if you think OP is just as good as HWE for heavy soil, then you are just an idiot! And that's the truth.....

John G your opinion about OP doesn't count cause your just trying to fool carpet cleaners into buying your overpriced equipment.

I really wish OP could replace HWE. I hate all the hoses.

 

[The Asian Sensation]

I use both systems and have respect for both. What I have learned, over time, is that I can clean most carpets using either system. Some situations are tailor made for one, or the other.

Single system owners, or even single system mfg's, are not always a reliable source for information regarding either system. When a bias exists, often times the full truth comes up missing.

I love them both for different reasons.

Marty, is right on. I have both systems and they're useful in their own ways. I wouldnt give up neither...

Can you clean dirtyass black carpets with OP?...HELL YEAH YOU CAN!! If you wanna use countless pads and have hours on end to spend on a job...

I mainly use OP for Commercials and/or condo units where my hoses wont reach.



I have to admit though...I fell for the sales pitch and believed that it was the next best thing and that it was all I was gonna need to run a carpet cleaning Business (yeah, yeah!!...Laugh it off guys). But, do I regret purchasing a OP machine when I already have a TM?...Nope. But, I do regret purchasing it from CCS instead of Clark.

 

[John G]

And why is that AS? Because I have been so bold as to tell you a few times you were either full of it or simply didn't know what you were doing?

lots of guys used to post pad, but with high flow and high heat they got away from it as the pads came up cleaner and cleaner.

Mikey, what has been your experience? You used to post-Dob more than anyone?

A lot changed when you married into a HWE company! LOL

Oh, making a living off the HWE business has seemed to change a lot as well.

 

[hogjowl]

It's Sunday, PadSon.

You're supposed to act better today.

 

[Jimmy L]

The trick of some OP magicians is to JACK UP the juice they use to get the job done and not worry about residue problems.

I even see that in the CIMEX crowd who JACK UP their SHAMPOO with a traffic lane cleaner to see SpECtACTCuLAr results.

All the while knowing they have added TONS of residue that will quicken the time interval when it needs to be flushed out by HWE.

Thus explaining the term "Scrub N' Run".

Immediate gratification for SHORT TERM results.

Cash the check and head on down the road for the next sucker.

 

[The Asian Sensation]

And why is that AS? Because I have been so bold as to tell you a few times you were either full of it or simply didn't know what you were doing?

Dude pleeese! First off how am I Full of it?? and what make you think that I dont know what Im doing??..Is it because I say that it takes forever to Op a nasty carpet?? SO I guess IM the only one thats experiencing this huh?.. DOnt give me that shit John. I think you're the one that's full of shit. More comes out of your mouth than your big ass.


Dont start hating on me for speaking about my experiences with OP. You're the one that can't handle the truth. That's why you banned everyone that spoke bad from your cult board cause they were speaking about their negative experiences with OP and you were afraid it was affecting your sales. :roll: :roll:

 

[Brad_Smith]

Bottom line. John is selling a method and chems.

We clean carpets and don't care what method, just want the best cause we don't sell chems and machines.

We have used both methods and put them in their place.

 

[Rambo]

I like Marty's answer. I have owned 7 truckmounts and more than 10 OP and 4 bonnet machines. The Asian Sensation is also right. This post reminds me of the "friday"night fights that used to go on, on the BBs.

 

[John Buxton]

No matter what method is used soil will always be left behind. Why does a Rainbow vacuum salesman pick up soil with his coffee filter after you have vacuumed already? Why is there soil left on the pad and sub floor after the carpet is ripped out? Because nobody and no method will remove everything. Give it a break, and concentrate on why people are putting in laminate.

 

[Ron Werner]

People are putting in laminate because of a couple reasons.
One of the main ones that I hear is that they are tired of carpet. Not tired of "carpet" but of dirty carpet. They hire a "professional" cleaner that comes in and "cleans" the carpet and charges them whatever, high or low. But the carpet never gets clean, or it resoils within a month. And they think they may as well rip it up.

Some people have pets and figure laminate will be easier to clean, since the pets make a mess and then they have to call a carpet cleaner in and (see above).

So I'm not really too concerned about which method is used. If OP will clean the carpet, great. If HOST will, great. Just do it right!

Even if people trash their carpet, they are calling a "professional" to come and "clean" it, to remove the soil, both loose and sticky, to the best of our ability. Not just brush some soil off the top and say, "There, that looks better."

Of course we who actually clean the carpet charge more then some are willing to pay so hense we have the splash and dash companies and the low ballers.

We need to raise the standard in this industry, so that the consumers know the difference when they hire a "professional" and a "pretender rahter than thinking ALL carpet cleaners are the same, and why should I pay $500 when I can get it done for $50. Too many cleaners are concerned with their $/hr rather than doing the job the way its supposed to be done.

Preaching to the choir with a lot of you guys

 

[John G]

Big talk Thangy!

You making up reasons other than your own behavior as to why you were banned? Get real.

 

[hogjowl]

Now you're going to have to wait a full week before you can repent.

Unless you go Wednesday.

 

[The Asian Sensation]

Big talk Thangy!

You making up reasons other than your own behavior as to why you were banned? Get real.

That's straight BS and you know it. Find me ONE post that my behavior was unacceptable except the fact that I was speaking about the Downside of OP . You have bigots, Racists, Liars, and nutcases on your board that are far worst than me so dont give me that BS. So, please...Go brush your teeth cause your breath stinks.


Why cant you just admit that was it? Be man enough to admit it. When I was first banned..I couldnt understand why...Until I talked to other cleaners that was on the board and we figured that was the reason (which you've never denied by the way). You're just mad because whenever a newbie asked about OP....I spoke up about the Downside about it and wouldnt shut up.



Ps- Please dont call me "Thangy". You dont see me calling you Geurkinky. Thank you for your understanding.

 

[John G]

Obviously Thang, instead of asking me, you "talked to other cleaners and figured out"... Yep that is the way to find the answer... LOL


Oh, Thangy....

More comes out of your mouth than your big ass.

 

[Jimmy L]

I never got an answer why I was banned from John's board either....sniff!

But I forgive you.....and love you.