What the heck is going on with this Travertine?

[Mikey P]

I looked at a new job today where under all the furniture and none traffic areas looks like this..

and in the traffic areas the grout looks like this..

I've seen this before once or twice but have no clue.
Big dogs. Husband does the mopping with a string mop , never steam cleaned, 2nd story on a three story home. No visible cracks in the tiles..
Grout cleans up with ease when I tested by hand

Why wouldn't those low spots/divots soil at the same rate?

@Cameron DeMille
@Rob Fairfield

 

[GeneMiller]

Thats a popular stone and pattern here. All the ones I've seen look just like yours. the first one i cleaned without the whitteaker, big mistake. the soil didn't want to let go. i brought it in and it cleaned beautifully. It looked a little dull when finished but she was happy.

 

[Mikey P]

Gene, I'm not concerned about the stone tile, it's the grout...look at it closely.

 

[Cameron DeMille]

The grout probably wasn't mixed correctly and is softer than it should be. Big dogs' nails will scrape away at it over time and you'll get this. Until they don't have those dogs anymore, I wouldn't hold out hope for any fix. Even then, the grout will have to be removed somewhat to get the new grout to bond. Not a good job to have with chiseled edge travertine. See if you can get an exact brand and color.

Properly mixed and floated sanded grout should not give way this much to dog nails

 

[Mikey P]

so you're positive on the dogs causing this?


I doubt they are scratching at it..

Why isn't the soiling consistent?

 

[Kellie Hiler]

My thought was that it had been improperly sealed. Flat mopped seal where it was not applied heavily enough to get into the divots. But then I realized that the divots are not in the clean areas. Is it possible they had sealed it after the scratches started happening? Or put some kind of topical on it?

 

[Mikey P]

Nice digs anyways...

 

[Kellie Hiler]

Good lord...I must be tired. I just realized my comment makes no sense lol.
I'm going to bed!

 

[Mikey P]

Your guesses are as good as mine..


Strange situation

 

[Charlie Lyman]

Nice digs anyways...

View attachment 12975

I love those jobs with the view.

 

[Bee Busy]

I would use Klenztone 3 very strong, scrub those groutlines good and hope for the best

 

[Mikey P]

tested them already... no problem....but the high/ lows will cause uneven resoiling..

 

[Todd C]

That's odd. But you say it cleans up to look good? My first thought was a half worn off topical or wax.

 

[Mikey P]

The low spots are really low..

Almost completely gone


You'd think they wild be even dirtier being the catch all..

 

[Todd C]

The low spots are really low..

Almost completely gone


You'd think they wild be even dirtier being the catch all..

Yea, that's what you would think. I'm guessing with the low spots being clean the damaged areas must have happened real recently. There has to be more they are not telling you.

 

[Cameron DeMille]

so you're positive on the dogs causing this?


I doubt they are scratching at it..

Why isn't the soiling consistent?

not 100% positive, but it is certainly plausible. Big dogs just need to walk across the floor, not necessarily scratch at it. If the grout was applied with too much water, it would have cured soft. The soiling is inconsistent because where it is scraped away is below the soiling. Or are you asking about compared to the other areas? Most people mop where they walk, so the dirt would be pushed in to the commonly used areas and nowhere else. Especially with lazy housekeepers, they won't bother swinging the mope under tables or where they don't think it's dirty.

 

[Brady]

I see this on most of the tumbled/chiseled trav I run into. I was just thinking about Cam's point of the grout being mixed thin. I wonder if they mix it thin to get a longer working time because the trav is unfilled. makes it easier on them and they don't care what happens 6 months from now.

 

[Old Coastie]

Mike, I would bet Marty's toupe' the customer is using a homebrew vinegar cleaner. The grout is etching and pitting, as if bubbles were popped. Bubbly grout is (as Cam points out) an indicator of thinning, which lets the installer move faster.

Watch out for skimpy areas that break through. If it is cleaning easily, I'd suggest a soft bristle like a carwash brush, your favorite concoction and ***low*** pressure rinse/recovery after a one-coffee dwell time.

 

[Mikey P]

The vinegar would dull the stone...no sign of that going on.


I got the whole job and start on Monday

1300 feet of stone floor
700 ft of carpet
Sofa, love and chair
Loose rug
Shower stall w/ repair

Hubby runs the White House, wife knows everyone..

 

[Mikey P]

 

[Bee Busy]

Nice digs anyways...

View attachment 12975

Jack's Valley NV?

 

[Old Coastie]

I don't see how the stone could get much duller, but maybe it is the pictures. But, good luck with the job; if she's a center of influence, it will open doors!

 

[Mikey P]

Jack's Valley NV?

Foothill near Kingsbury

 

[clean image]

The first pics look like the grout is raised above the tile?

This will happen with improper mixed urethanes


The 'chipping' of the grout lines is more common than not with a sanded grout in a 'castle installation' , Ashlar, French,...

I bet If you rub your finger across it aggressively, it will turn to powder. Your fingernail will scratch it.

This due to many circumstances including
1. Using old grout or grout that has been exposed to humid air for any extended length of time
2. Mixing too much water with grout
3. Over saturation of water during grout removal
4. Using a butt installation, therefore no grout between tiles, therefore not enough mass of grout to proper hydrate in the chiseseled edge only. Which technically is improper.
---

I would recommend you rely more on agitation and less on direct pressure and you will be fine..

Let them know your cleaning the problem not fixing the problem..

There is no simple solution to a poor grout installation, esp chiseled

You would have to use a consolidator like SK-40 to make what was there significantly harder. And that would be done after fixing the chipping..

 

[Rob Fairfield]

The first pics look like the grout is raised above the tile?

This will happen with improper mixed urethanes


The 'chipping' of the grout lines is more common than not with a sanded grout in a 'castle installation' , Ashlar, French,...

I bet If you rub your finger across it aggressively, it will turn to powder. Your fingernail will scratch it.

This due to many circumstances including
1. Using old grout or grout that has been exposed to humid air for any extended length of time
2. Mixing too much water with grout
3. Over saturation of water during grout removal
4. Using a butt installation, therefore no grout between tiles, therefore not enough mass of grout to proper hydrate in the chiseseled edge only. Which technically is improper.
---

I would recommend you rely more on agitation and less on direct pressure and you will be fine..

Let them know your cleaning the problem not fixing the problem..

There is no simple solution to a poor grout installation, esp chiseled

You would have to use a consolidator like SK-40 to make what was there significantly harder. And that would be done after fixing the chipping..

I like your style Carl.

 

[Mikey P]

I bet If you rub your finger across it aggressively, it will turn to powder. Your fingernail will scratch it.

Very hard actually.


and no the grout is not above grade, despite the illusion..

 

[Mikey P]

Today was the day.


Cleaned up great. Grout is not soft. I did notice the there is more fill missing in the areas where the grout is pitted as well..

 

[Bee Busy]

Looks good, I'm assuming they didn't want all the holes filled, which is something I have to deal with often with that type of travertine.

 

[Mikey P]

oh heck no.



Would have taken days to do that..


Not clean or tidy freaks at all.

To be honest they would never had said anything about the craters in the grout I I had not brought it up

 

[Bee Busy]

You should hit up the Carson Valley Inn, they have the same travertine in their casino, last time I was there it was filthy, it could use a good cleaning