Depreciation on a truckmount

[Mikey P]

a car is what? 20% ten feet off the lot?

What does a well maintained slide in lose under normal usage?


and a PTO/CDS?

 

[Art Kelley]

Doubtless the actual figures would be quite variable with each machine. A garage built slide-in machine with no warranty would be worth much less than one from a major manufacturer that still has a warranty and a dealer network that would honor it. The direct drive machines currently built cost about the same as the van they're in and probably depreciate in a similar fashion as the vans.

 

[juniorc82]

Kind of strange market we are in where used equipment is only worth what the next guy is willing to pay for it. In respect to what art said I can see how a major brand may hold its value to a certain extent but on the other hand since it cost so much more to begin it drops a lot more over all. For example a pc Everest is around 30k brand new , after 1 year or maybe 500 - 1k hours of usage I wouldn't expect to see fetch much more than 20 or 22k on the second hand market. On the other hand I think over time the so called garage tm's may level out in value because many people especialy on the second hand market don't want to deal with a bunch of proprietary parts, electronics, and solenoids to keep the thing running. I think you can keep a garage style tm like a Judson, steam action, e z , or whatever running longer it has a good frame and waste tank by replacing components and don't have to really on jon don or interlink to keep your machine running

 

[FB19087]

I agree it is worth what somebody will pay..........and the market...and is it separated from the vehicle which is where any retained value lies imo.

Otherwise its just the value of the parts TO ME...so the average truckmount regardless of hours..... unless there is a transferable warranty is worth 5-7k TO ME...........at least those I would consider......it doesn't matter to me that you paid 18k or whatever

at that point I'm paying for frame/tank/heat source/design only

I guess what I'm saying is I wouldn't buy your TM ..................and I wouldn't expect you to sell it to me...

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Any machine will immediately be worth only its manufacturing cost after its sale. Why would a manufacturer buy back a unit for more than it would cost to build a new one?

 

[Shane Deubell]

PTO's in general are going to hold value better because they are turn-key and you can sell to anyone. Not just carpet cleaners...

Just like your business, if anyone can buy it and run on a day to day basis the value will go up.

Entreprenuer.com has millions, yes millions of visitors every month of people looking to start a small business. That is far bigger pool of potential buyers then the 1000 or so of carpet cleaners who are on the internet monthly.

 

[SMRBAP]

My $0.02

Most important factor is the name brand. Those with a proven track record to get to 8-10-12 + thousand hours (and kept in mint shape) are going to fetch pretty close to the retail cost.

I don't agree with the #'s mentioned on the everest above. Find me those 1 yr old everest's going at $20-22 - I'll buy everyone you can find. 405's with 5000 hrs or more are still fetching 5 figures, and they are what - a decade and a half old.

This topic is one you should absolutely consider when buying a TM - only way to get your true operational cost is to know what it be worth at the point you want to retire it, be that scrapping it or running it for 2-5 years and replacing it.

Buy a $10k offbrand machine new, run it for 4 years and it's junkyard scrap in many cases (or worth virtually nothing).
Buy a $25k major brand TM with a track record of good resale, run it for 4, you likely have a unit worth $15k still.

Same cost to own at the end of 4 years - and you likely didn't have near the downtime with the better TM.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Unfortunately, unlike motor vehicles, there are NO verifiable numbers for the number of units sold by ANY mfg, nor of the number of each that are still working.

 

[juniorc82]

My $0.02

Most important factor is the name brand. Those with a proven track record to get to 8-10-12 + thousand hours (and kept in mint shape) are going to fetch pretty close to the retail cost.

I don't agree with the #'s mentioned on the everest above. Find me those 1 yr old everest's going at $20-22 - I'll buy everyone you can find. 405's with 5000 hrs or more are still fetching 5 figures, and they are what - a decade and a half old.

This topic is one you should absolutely consider when buying a TM - only way to get your true operational cost is to know what it be worth at the point you want to retire it, be that scrapping it or running it for 2-5 years and replacing it.

Buy a $10k offbrand machine new, run it for 4 years and it's junkyard scrap in many cases (or worth virtually nothing).
Buy a $25k major brand TM with a track record of good resale, run it for 4, you likely have a unit worth $15k still.

Same cost to own at the end of 4 years - and you likely didn't have near the downtime with the better TM.

Dude no way , the only tm brand that is even remotely able to fetch anything close to its retail cost brand spanking new is a vortex or at. If you have a unit like a Judson or hell even a steam action that has a well built stainless steel frame and waste tank you can keep replacing parts and components and that machine for 15 years easy. Ill agree with you about a 405 fetching 5k but 5k and 22k are 2 different kinds of buyers on the used market. I see a lot of people that are willing to shell out 7- 12k on a well kept used machine but most guys I know who can truly afford to spend 22 grand are gonna go with the peace of mind and shit the few extra thousand on a new machine

 

[Kevin B]

A good condition, good running 405 with under 5000 hours could fetch 9-11,000. Put it in a van and get 20k

 

[SMRBAP]

Dude no way , the only tm brand that is even remotely able to fetch anything close to its retail cost brand spanking new is a vortex or at. If you have a unit like a Judson or hell even a steam action that has a well built stainless steel frame and waste tank you can keep replacing parts and components and that machine for 15 years easy. Ill agree with you about a 405 fetching 5k but 5k and 22k are 2 different kinds of buyers on the used market. I see a lot of people that are willing to shell out 7- 12k on a well kept used machine but most guys I know who can truly afford to spend 22 grand are gonna go with the peace of mind and shit the few extra thousand on a new machine

Since about 2008. I have sold 6 of my major name brand (I won't name the units to remain unbiased here) units, about 2 years old each, 1100-1400 hrs on them, and gotten 75-80% of retail out of them - all sold within 3 months of putting them out there. Now I have records to show clockwork maintenance, have gone over them as if they were aircraft before sale replacing belts that were still fine, rebuilding the water pumps that were fine, etc - and you could eat off any surface in my vans, and the TM's, so maybe the reconditioning (really a few hundred in parts and time) and my OCD over their use kicks my curve way up.

Same situation for 3 off brand units. Same age and hours averaged - 6 months, no takers. Dropped my pants to about 55% and they sold in 2-3 months.

And those off brand units are made by the same manufacturer as the major name brand........ They are identical.

Mikeys post seemed to ask - drive off the lot depreciation. My response was directed towards that mostly.

As I said, start finding me those year old Everests with a few hudred hours for $20k - I'll buy every dang one of 'em

Their have been many years of fire sale prices due to companies going under, downsizing etc - a trend that will end (hopefully) as the economy betters itself.

 

[Mikey P]

A good condition, good running 405 with under 5000 hours could fetch 9-11,000. Put it in a van and get 20k

really?

is this a fact?


5000 hours?

 

[Mikey P]

Dude no way , the only tm brand that is even remotely able to fetch anything close to its retail cost brand spanking new is a vortex or at. If you have a unit like a Judson or hell even a steam action that has a well built stainless steel frame and waste tank you can keep replacing parts and components and that machine for 15 years easy. Ill agree with you about a 405 fetching 5k but 5k and 22k are 2 different kinds of buyers on the used market. I see a lot of people that are willing to shell out 7- 12k on a well kept used machine but most guys I know who can truly afford to spend 22 grand are gonna go with the peace of mind and shit the few extra thousand on a new machine

So in your best estimation, what will your EeZe be worth in 5 years?

 

[Mikey P]

and what is my 3 year old Judson C4 worth with 830 hours on it now?

110 gallon SS waste, LG #4, Kohler 30 hp, General pump

 

[juniorc82]

So in your best estimation, what will your EeZe be worth in 5 years?

I didn't buy it to re sell it I bought it because it was easy to work on and much like a Judson you can replace non proprietary parts and keep it running. I would say at close to 12k new I bet you could realisticly get 4-5 k if it was maintained after 5 years or with around 2500 hours. I guess the way I see it is why would you pay 20 grand or better for a used machine when you can get the peace of mind of knowing that no one has mistreated it and go brand new for a few extra thousand. Also just because someone is asking a certain price doesn't mean their getting it

 

[Desk Jockey]

really?

is this a fact?


5000 hours?

Doubtful while the 405 is a kick ass machine parts in the future are going to be hard to find. Plus 5,000 hours is about half of the life prior to a major overhaul.

I think you're much safer in $6,000.00-$8,000.00 range, if she's 10 she better be primo. $20,000.00 in a van? Maybe if the van kicks in $10,000.00-$12,000.00 on it's own.

5,000 is quite a few hours, maybe if it only had 3K.

 

[juniorc82]

I bet your 3 year old c4 could still fetch 9 -10 grand to a Judson lover if you gave it a good cleanup and tune up. The condition of the lg would have to be factored in to it also. I don't want to portray my self as a numbers guru and these are my opinions only and I know differantt markets and regions have their own philosiphys. I think the bottom line on any equipment has had a considerable amount of use it boils down to 2 different values. 1) If you go to sell it , its worth what the next guy is willing to pay. You can ask for all you want and depending how long you want to sit on it is up to you. 2) what is the value of a machine that is not for sale and being used? this is total different than a machine that is for sale on the second hand market. Maybe that machine is ideal for your operation and is perfect for you but mediocre for the next guy. Hey maybe this is a good idea for someone to do on here, make the truckmount carpet cleaner blue book. Could be a a good idea considering that most every cleaner starting or moving up will usualy first aquire a used machine

 

[Kevin B]

Doubtful while the 405 is a kick ass machine parts in the future are going to be hard to find. Plus 5,000 hours is about half of the life prior to a major overhaul.

I think you're much safer in $6,000.00-$8,000.00 range, if she's 10 she better be primo. $20,000.00 in a van? Maybe if the van kicks in $10,000.00-$12,000.00 on it's own.

5,000 is quite a few hours, maybe if it only had 3K.

Im not saying i would pay that, im saying ive seen some good performers in great shape and if they are running good and pumping 240 like they can, they are worth more than a 20hp air cooled toy truckmount to me and those sell new for 10-15 and are garbage in 4 years.

If you put it in a 3/4 ton van with 70K it will sell.

 

[Blue Monarch]

Hey, I thought ur Judson had 400 hours!

 

[Mikey P]

It's been a busy week.


Cu has first dibs but Al Paulson may outbid him.

 

[Blue Monarch]

grrrrrrr

 

[Lee Stockwell]

We've spent about $10k total for 5 405s, 3 under 2000 hrs.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Im not saying i would pay that, im saying ive seen some good performers in great shape and if they are running good and pumping 240 like they can, they are worth more than a 20hp air cooled toy truckmount to me and those sell new for 10-15 and are garbage in 4 years.

If you put it in a 3/4 ton van with 70K it will sell.

I agree with that. I keep thinking about selling our 805 but then realize I'd just be buying less of a machine later.

 

[SMRBAP]

I wouldn't buy an older used TM - Mostly because I can barely keep up with the reg maintenance items on 4-5 new units as they need service, anything more than that would be a trainwreck for me - but I don't think $9-10K on a 405 (granted it's in great shape) is a bad deal. Even if you put 800 hrs a year on it, that's about 6 years of use before it hits its number of overhaul/death.

Every buyer and seller has different circumstances - but imo, a known name brand/model won't lose more than a few % at a month or few old. That $32k unit after tax was $34250 after tax, and why I disagreed that a year old Everest is only worth $20k. That's a 42% disparity to what it'd cost to buy new from the dealer.

But it seems to be a buyers market over the last 3-4 years no matter what you are trying to peddle. Since the economy tanked no matter what I sell, TM, equipment, tools, ATV, Ex Fiance's vibrator collection - the vast majority of people want things for a fraction of what they are worth - or want to trade this or that.

 

[Art Kelley]

I wouldn't buy an older used TM - Mostly because I can barely keep up with the reg maintenance items on 4-5 new units as they need service, anything more than that would be a trainwreck for me - but I don't think $9-10K on a 405 (granted it's in great shape) is a bad deal. Even if you put 800 hrs a year on it, that's about 6 years of use before it hits its number of overhaul/death.

Every buyer and seller has different circumstances - but imo, a known name brand/model won't lose more than a few % at a month or few old. That $32k unit after tax was $34250 after tax, and why I disagreed that a year old Everest is only worth $20k. That's a 42% disparity to what it'd cost to buy new from the dealer.

But it seems to be a buyers market over the last 3-4 years no matter what you are trying to peddle. Since the economy tanked no matter what I sell, TM, equipment, tools, ATV, Ex Fiance's vibrator collection - the vast majority of people want things for a fraction of what they are worth - or want to trade this or that.

What were some of the offers in trade for the vibrator collection?

 

[The Great Oz]

For PTO units that are in good running order and look good the rule of thumb is: The book value of the van + 1/2 of the original retail price of the unit. As with anything condition and hours bump the price up or down.

There are too many variables with slide-ins to do anything but look at what other people are getting for similar units.

 

[SMRBAP]

What were some of the offers in trade for the vibrator collection?

Nothing worth taking, they were too worn in from our very kinky 3 year relationship - so I returned them

She is now dating an ex-employee who lives about 3 miles away. I dropped them off on his porch with a note I had been meaning to return them to her.

I had been meaning to get him that severance package for years.........

 

[Desk Jockey]

LOL You're crazy Anthony!!!

 

[juniorc82]

Since about 2008. I have sold 6 of my major name brand (I won't name the units to remain unbiased here) units, about 2 years old each, 1100-1400 hrs on them, and gotten 75-80% of retail out of them - all sold within 3 months of putting them out there. Now I have records to show clockwork maintenance, have gone over them as if they were aircraft before sale replacing belts that were still fine, rebuilding the water pumps that were fine, etc - and you could eat off any surface in my vans, and the TM's, so maybe the reconditioning (really a few hundred in parts and time) and my OCD over their use kicks my curve way up.

Same situation for 3 off brand units. Same age and hours averaged - 6 months, no takers. Dropped my pants to about 55% and they sold in 2-3 months.

And those off brand units are made by the same manufacturer as the major name brand........ They are identical.

Mikeys post seemed to ask - drive off the lot depreciation. My response was directed towards that mostly.

As I said, start finding me those year old Everests with a few hudred hours for $20k - I'll buy every dang one of 'em

Their have been many years of fire sale prices due to companies going under, downsizing etc - a trend that will end (hopefully) as the economy betters itself.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sapphire-Sc...460?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item232d4c48d4 Get your wallet out here is a one or so year old 870 the equivelant of an Everest for 21 grand maybe a little more expensive than an Everest actualy. Told ya the deals are out there