360i swirls- what am I doing wrong?

[Old Coastie]

Ofer, grain is on the way!

Splorktructions are extra. You might wanna shop that around locally.

 

[Loren Egland]

Thank you Loren.
If correct, I assume that the issue is the metal being heated too much by the heat causing some distortion. The metal heat being different than steam heat where only water actually touching the carpet (which we know will not cause any issues and will actually trigger heat memory which will perk up the carpet.) Am I correct?

In that case would changing metal shoes to glides, solve the issue?

I also have the quad head, used only once in a different situation (did not cause swirls) but just once and a very different carpet.

I would think the water would get hotter than the metal glides. I used to do more wand cleaning at higher temps and it was clearly the heat and pressure that would cause the distortion on some carpet.

 

[ruff]

Hot water alone, Loren, will not cause any distortion issue with synthetic carpet. You can't deliver them to the carpet, hot enough (anywhere even close to the heat set temp).

The distortion you mention is not from the wet heat. In case of a wand it is from the jets being too close to the carpet (if you use an extender they are, and more so at certain angles) and or too high a pressure. Nothing to do with temp.

Very hot metal, touching the carpet, on the other hand, could cause issues. So it may be the metal shoes and or the jets and metal piping that is getting very hot from the water, yet it's the metal (not the water) that would do it.

 

[FB7777]

I agree with Ofer

Personally I believe it is a design flaw, should have a teflon or PTFE to reduce friction

Metal and plastic under heat and friction don't mix well

Other tools out there, why take the risk

If I ever get motivated, I'd dump the 360i on eBay to some sucker...'

Unless some idiot here wants to make an offer

 

[Loren Egland]

My experience is using a Poweratic with the kerosene burner, 3/8 inch solution hose, and a Steamway wand with one large single flood jet 2 inches from the carpet and the jet being fully enclosed so the temperatures remain 30-40 degrees hotter at the carpet/wand interface due to almost no atomization cooling like with open wands. The metal of my wand never caused a problem. Those poly synthetic fibers will distort very easily under those conditions, and it is clearly the solution heat along with some pressure at high water flow that causes distortion, not the metal part of the wand. Thus the reason I would turn my heat down. Of course I used to consistently operate while maintaining 250 degrees at 2 gallon per minute through one jet with that set up. With the RV I don't need to run that hot any more.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree, assuming we are talking about the same phenomenon.

 

[ruff]

Heat set of carpet is much higher than 250 degree. Also, I very much doubt that it would be 250 at the carpet. Did you actually ever measure it at the carpet?

Metal being exposed to heat will heat up and the heat will build, so the metal will get hotter. But with a smooth metal wand and very little movement per minute (unlike a rotary) I doubt the wands metal will cause distortion.

Yes, too much pressure will cause distortion and the hotter the fiber gets the easier it will be for the too high pressure to do more damage. The wet heat alone won't do it. Take a steamer and see if it will distort the carpet pile.

Could also be a worn out jet that is not fanning the water as well, thus creating even a stronger impact.

Of course, I respectfully agree to disagree. Only you're wrong

 

[Desk Jockey]

I agree with Ofer

Personally I believe it is a design flaw, should have a teflon or PTFE to reduce friction

Metal and plastic under heat and friction don't mix well

Other tools out there, why take the risk

If I ever get motivated, I'd dump the 360i on eBay to some sucker...'

Unless some idiot here wants to make an offer

Well being as its a POS I couldn't offer you much for it.

Well, you didn't specify which idiot.

j/k
Well about me being an idiot anyway.

 

[ruff]

.......Well being as its a POS I couldn't offer you much for it.

You've been warned before Grass Hopper, that word has been copyrighted.
Send money.

 

[Desk Jockey]

 

[Cleanworks]

It's not necessarily the heat or the pressure, sometimes it's too much chemical. It will cause cornrowing and will appear to distort the fibre. If you go back and do a Clearwater or mild acid rinse, you will see it disappear.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

This thread reminds me of a good episode of a classic game show like "To Tell the Truth".

Several plausible stories are told, all but one is FOS.

 

[Loren Egland]

Heat set of carpet is much higher than 250 degree. Also, I very much doubt that it would be 250 at the carpet. Did you actually ever measure it at the carpet?

Metal being exposed to heat will heat up and the heat will build, so the metal will get hotter. But with a smooth metal wand and very little movement per minute (unlike a rotary) I doubt the wands metal will cause distortion.

Yes, too much pressure will cause distortion and the hotter the fiber gets the easier it will be for the too high pressure to do more damage. The wet heat alone won't do it. Take a steamer and see if it will distort the carpet pile.

Could also be a worn out jet that is not fanning the water as well, thus creating even a stronger impact.

Of course, I respectfully agree to disagree. Only you're wrong

Of course you are correct. The temperature at the carpet will not be 250 degrees like it is at the truck.

Not sure that the object being heated will get hotter than the heat source itself.

Stick your hand onto 120 degree water and compare to 120 degree air. Which feels hotter?

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Consider both the specific heat and thermal characteristics of various metals.

 

[Nate The Great]

Of course you are correct. The temperature at the carpet will not be 250 degrees like it is at the truck.

Not sure that the object being heated will get hotter than the heat source itself.

Stick your hand onto 120 degree water and compare to 120 degree air. Which feels hotter?

I beg to differ..... At The Zipper

 

[SamIam]

Nate I told you not to play with fire!

So how many times @Nate The Great has that heat damaged the carpet pile?


I've noticed my water line can leave a line in the carpet and only if you clean it in a certain direction it will come right out.

The hotter the water helps to remove these marks easier.

 

[FB7777]

This thread reminds me of a good episode of a classic game show like "To Tell the Truth".

Several plausible stories are told, all but one is FOS.

Another nugget from Captain Cryptic

After 1000 jobs on all types of fibers and installations , I'm just looking for a reason as to why a handful of jobs left permanent swirls

I'm assuming heat and friction from the metal quad jet swoop heads

It seems less likely that it is caused by the jets based on the swirl patterns .

My RX had left similar marks when we used to use it on severely trashed CGD

The 360i is a great tool with one flaw... And I really don't want it to bite me on a $5000 great room

 

[jcooper]

If you go back and do a Clearwater or mild acid rinse, you will see it disappear.

Are they going to pay me again?

 

[Cleanworks]

I don't think so, if you used too much soap and matted the carpet, that's your fault. I I that once in a condo. It was pretty trashed and I laid down too much prespray and cranked my soap up in the tm. It came out clean but the carpet matted something fierce. I went back and could feel the stickiness of the carpet so I fresh water rinsed it and it came up beautiful. That's why I think, if you over do it with the soap, with a rotovac, some of the swirl marks may be due to too much soap

 

[Mikey P]

The 360i is a great tool with one flaw

That flaw is totally gone when you use the brushhead.

 

[Old Coastie]

But what do I do if the yoinkhead won't let me buy one?

Uh, I'm asking for a friend.

 

[ruff]

That flaw is totally gone when you use the brushhead.

Unless you can tell me what I was doing wrong, that thing happened with a brush head.

 

[Mikey P]

It's really not that complicated, do you have your * clinched while using the 360i?


It's important to relax and let loose of your inner tight.....wadd......

 

[ruff]

Regressing back at your old habits? Not quite helpful.

1. It does leave a permanent mark.
2. It does do it with the brush head. Not "a thing of the past".

Whether it's the heat (according to Nate it isn't.)
Or the metal parts (is it the metal shoe? or the whole metal construction that touches the carpet including the jets and pipes?)
The kind of carpet being cleaned?
Heat related? Speed?
Operator error? If yes, what is it?

Or whatever it may be, it does leave permanent marks. Trying to find out how to avoid it.

 

[Mikey P]

How can I tell you how to fix a non existant problem, for me?

Btw, dont use the Bhed on wool or silks.

 

[Desk Jockey]

It's really not that complicated, do you have your * clinched while using the 360i?


It's important to relax and let loose of your inner tight.....wadd......

You're a sik mofo! LOL

 

[FB7777]

That flaw is totally gone when you use the brushhead.

Ok

So how much is it gonna COST me to correct the R&D flaw within this machine?


Or will they let me trade in my quad head fpr an even exchange


That would be fair and equitable in my opinion

 

[Mikey P]

Ill find out

 

[Shorty]

Not going to be helpful here, just a P.I.T.A.

People are so used to seeing wand or rake marks in the carpet, yet I've had many say that any swirls left, actually look different & nice.

Some have even asked me to do the same in all of their properties, commenting that it makes the carpet look "sculptured".

I do as they ask because it makes them happy & they pay my bill.

I have not damaged any carpet in any way with my little 360i, which I use at low water pressure, cooler water and larger jets, with one, sometimes two, dry strokes.

Same with my Vintage CMX-20 which I recently sold, I never damaged any carpets nor ripped seams, yet I have heard of several doing damage with the higher speed RX-20.

I do like the "new" brush over the original head, but I'm also not doing near the same amount of CC'ing as previously, slowing down & picking my work.

Thanks for a good topic.

 

[FB7777]

Shorty

Thanks , heat and friction are the culprit in my humble opinion and it's a very rare occasion

It's a shame, cause it really is a great lil machine

 

[Big Jim]

Unless you can tell me what I was doing wrong, that thing happened with a brush head.

Ofer, Lower the heat and pressure a bit and use the teflon glides with the brush head; pretty sure that would reduce if not eliminate the situation