Legend Brands acquires Prochem

[steve_64]

I can get almost dry carpet with 13 in of lift but when my filter fills up I must wand differently slower. It would be nice to have a meter on the wand to tell me when I'm leaving it to wet. And to have extra power increase when the filter plugs up.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Do you inline filters? We just change the knee high after every job. Keeps the tank clean and less restriction.

 

[Larry Cobb]

With 13" at the TM, I feel you don't have enough lift to begin with.

Then when you lose a couple inches of lift with the clogged filter or 200' of hose, the carpet is left too wet.

A better solution, is to start with 16" hg. or more to begin with.

 

[Bob Savage]

Lee;

What do you think about eliminating belts, couplers, and tensioners . . .

Steve;

New systems will offer high lift all the time . . .

Bob;

We did actual flowmeter/lift testing on various blower types and TM wands
with various lengths of hose (up to 500').

So what did you determine the minimum vacuum necessary for say 100' of vacuum hose (lift and CFM at the end of 100'of 2" vacuum hose)?

Lee;

What do you think about eliminating belts, couplers, and tensioners . . .

Steve;

New systems will offer high lift all the time . . .

Bob;

We did actual flowmeter/lift testing on various blower types and TM wands
with various lengths of hose (up to 500').

Larry,

Did you test the vacuum at different lengths to see what the "MINIMUM" vacuum would be necessary at those hose lengths?

 

[Lee Stockwell]

If eliminating belts, remember most couplers also have their issues.

 

[Bob Savage]

If eliminating belts, remember most couplers also have their issues.

ALIGNMENT

 

[Desk Jockey]

Suck up a rag shred a coupler.

Better have adjustments or the will be a bitch to get off and on.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Back to the original subject of this thread, Prochem and its future. My experience with the 405 impressed me with superb engineering. When I see a garage builder knocking Prochem's complexity I have to realize where they come from.

I saw a video here years ago where a builder was stripping all the "unnecessary parts" from a modern HX equipped machine and going to propane. Made me think of a caveman destroying a Porsche with a club.

 

[Cleanworks]

With 13" at the TM, I feel you don't have enough lift to begin with.

Then when you lose a couple inches of lift with the clogged filter or 200' of hose, the carpet is left too wet.

A better solution, is to start with 16" hg. or more to begin with.

You don't lose any lift when your filter clogs up, you lose air flow.

 

[steve_64]

You're missing my point Larry. Even at 16 most guys will run it till it's not effecient anymore and yes leaving carpets to wet.

They have table saws that can sense moisture and stop the blade before serious injury why can't we have tools to tell us how wet a carpet is while we are cleaning it.

The adjustment on the fly would be for fuel savings and equipment wear.

 

[Larry Cobb]

You don't lose any lift when your filter clogs up, you lose air flow.

The filter is one of many restrictions in the flow path.

You lose lift due to the excess restriction,
and that results in less CFM.

 

[Bob Savage]

Larry,

Thank you for your testing efforts, but so far I don't see where anyone has tested to determine what the minimum vacuum, Lift and CFM, needs to be at the end of 100' of 2" vac hose, 150', 200', etc.

The way things stand now there is no limit on truckmount vacuum systems.

There is a point where adding more vacuum will give you nothing more than the law of diminishing returns.

Finally, here's a question for everyone:

When you have a single vacuum pump on a TM, and you split it off to run dual wands, is the total CFM cut in half going to each wand?

 

[SamIam]

You don't lose any lift when your filter clogs up, you lose air flow.

Actually you lose both your machines lift maybe higher at the machine but with a plugged filter you'll feel less bite and hear less air flow so you lose both.

Go clean your filter and see how much harder it is to push your wand.

 

[Larry Cobb]

Actually you lose both your machines lift maybe higher at the machine but with a plugged filter you'll feel less bite and hear less air flow so you lose both.

Go clean your filter and see how much harder it is to push your wand.

Sam . . . The knowledge of an experienced cleaner . . .

who can can actually feel lift and determine CFM . . .

without any instrumentation.

BRAVO

 

[Cleanworks]

The knowledge of an experienced cleaner . . .

who can can actually feel lift and determine CFM . . .

without any instrumentation.

BRAVO

An experienced cleaner can tell when something is wrong. You don't need instruments to tell you that your wand isn't sticking to the carpet like it was a little while ago. This happens a lot to carpet cleaners, you are cleaning along and all of a sudden, you hit an area that the customer has spot cleaned. Right away, you lose suction and air flow and your wand goes quiet as the foam clogs up everything. You spray a little defoamer and your wand returns to normal. You can physically see and feel the reaction. You always need a balance of lift and cfm. For example, I have a ninja portable with 2-8 amp vacuum motors in series. On the vac gauge, it gives me 14 inches hg. I also have a portable that has 2-13.5 amp vacuum motors in parallel fed through a manifold into the waste tank. It gives me only 10 inches hg. Which one is more powerful?

 

[steve_64]

The knowledge of an experienced cleaner . . .

who can can actually feel lift and determine CFM . . .

without any instrumentation.

BRAVO

Even seasoned veterans leave carpets to wet sometimes.

I use to get carpets pretty dry at times with ten inches of lift. I had to go pretty slow and it wasn't efficient. Equipment forever though.

With hoses hooked up I start at about ten now instead of three. My shoulder is messed up and I have carpal tunnel in my other wrist. My back doesn't hurt anymore or my knees so that's good.

I just see a lot about new technology but really it's just old stuff being refined for our industry.

I really think something like this would be groundbreaking in our industry. It would ensure that carpets are not being overwet which is one of the major complaints in our industry. It's what gives vlm guys an edge.

We need to be able to rely on something other than the tech. A digital reading that means something, to measure, to show the customer.

 

[steve_64]

I'm always pushing for production. Because of that I often speed up my passes where I (think) can get away with it. It would be HUGE to have a digital reading telling me exactly what I can get away with in every spot.

Hook that info to the machine so it can purr when I'm on certain carpet that doesn't need the power or heat but increases on demand when needed and I can do this for a lot longer. We don't need to pull carpet off the tackstrip all the time.

 

[ruff]

Here is the analog reading Steve:
Slow down your passes. Feel the resistance and the pull of the wand, it will tell you quite well how you're doing.
In other words- pay attention. A constantly beeping warning will be annoying and is more likely to be turned off.

I am not against new features and improvements. They are great. As long as they don't require lots of maintenance and or cause frequent break down. That's where the issues start. And that's why it creates a niche for simpler machines.

Lee, the current 405 I am sure is great and mechanically I don't know a tenth of what you know. However I've been around long enough and know quite a few dealers- they all felt that up to about eight years or so ago, ProChem was doing too complicated machines that broke down too frequently due to that.

Personally I would love to have the best technology and the best dependability, if I can get it. If I have to choose between the two- dependability will always win. No contest.

 

[steve_64]

Ofer, imagine a wand tied to the machine via wifi or the newest cell technology. That you can adjust and even start and stop at the wand. That you can adjust power depending on condition, even fatigue.

I don't want bells and whistles but a monitor and keypad with real info on the spot.

This would be an advancement.

To know when jets are plugging up other than the visual which can be deceiving when it's minor.

There's so much more to be done besides heat exchangers and lift.

 

[John Olson]

Your vac gauge has nothing to do with lifet. It tells you when the vac reliefs will open. Go stand next to you machine while someone is cleaning . Very rarely will the vac relief open if it's set at 13 unless you completely block off the hose. You always have maxim. Airflow that is available closing your vac relief off doesn't make your blower spin faster

 

[ruff]

No argument Steve.
As long as it is dependable, does not require much maintenance and does not takes the cost way up.

Almost without exception the product with the least moving parts is the one that does not break down. If it is fairly dependable and reasonably priced, we are willing to put up with it.

As always it is benefits versus disadvantages. I take my hat off for the people who are constantly trying to improve the machines. It benefits all of us.

 

[steve_64]

I would put a sensor on the wand lip by each jet that reads moisture and temp. Another sensor for pressure. Another for cfm.

Maybe dual triggers for adjusting and an ergo pistol grip.

Imagine adjusting pressure on the fly

I'm talking fuel savings water and product saving. Belts and coupler pump and blower saving.

 

[steve_64]

Do you inline filters? We just change the knee high after every job. Keeps the tank clean and less restriction.

I have an inline I use besides the square lint box built in. I've thought about getting another inline I can swap on the job when I need it.

I try and keep my filters clean but when they are clean the wand grabs so dang hard my shoulder is getting bad. Sometimes I leave the filter dirty to make wanding easier.

 

[Cleanworks]

I have an inline I use besides the square lint box built in. I've thought about getting another inline I can swap on the job when I need it.

I try and keep my filters clean but when they are clean the wand grabs so dang hard my shoulder is getting bad. Sometimes I leave the filter dirty to make wanding easier.

get a new shoulder

 

[steve_64]

get a new shoulder

It's not life threatening.

I'm going to start color dyeing.

 

[jcooper]

I try and keep my filters clean but when they are clean the wand grabs so dang hard my shoulder is getting bad. Sometimes I leave the filter dirty to make wanding easier.

You have a glide, Steve???


Never forget, first day with my new PCTI and not being able to push the darn thing. I was sweating my arse off after one room! Had to go back to the baby wand, til I got a glide....

 

[steve_64]

You have a glide, Steve???


Never forget, first day with my new PCTI and not being able to push the darn thing. I was sweating my arse off after one room! Had to go back to the baby wand, til I got a glide....

No glide, then I would need to carry a vacuum lol

 

[Desk Jockey]

Dude you need a glide.

 

[Cleanworks]

Dude you need a glide.

and a vacuum

 

[ruff]

I've widened the slots of the glide.
Works great, picks up debris too. Not as smooth as a hole glide. Smooth enough for me.
Actually gives me a much better feel for how dry the carpet is.