Desk Jockey
Member
Man talk about some semantics double talk. Gezzz what bs!
Electrolytic Technology cleaners????
- Thread starter Dolly Llama
- Start date
Man talk about some semantics double talk. Gezzz what bs!
Dolly Llama
Number 5
other than mentioning floor finish, all I recall is the Prochem bucket of fisheyes your disty wouldn't refund your money on ……
..L.T.A.
F
FB19087
Guest
how do you do this to carpet?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion#Electrolytic_cleaning
Cleanworks
Moderator
I tried some Clean on some rust the other day and it didn't do anything. Got a gallon of Clean from Sam but so far, I am less than impressed.
Cleanworks
Moderator
here is an article from Cleanfax that gives a little insight into some chemistry.
https://cleanfax.com/carpet-care/anionic-nonionic-cationic-what-do-they-all-mean/
Anionic, Nonionic, Cationic
What do these surfactant names really mean?
Timothy J. Roach—
As a young boy growing up on Long Island, I remember watching my mother frantically trying to clean up some unknown food or drink spill from our carpet before company came.
She’d scrub and scrub, actually spreading the spill instead of cleaning it.
And, of course, with no carpet spot remover in the house, she would be forced to try whatever was handy, such as laundry detergent, dish soap, maybe even some alkaline degreaser from my dad’s workroom.
“Shouldn’t you use carpet cleaner on that?” I’d ask.
“It’s just soap,” she would reply. “It’s all the same.”
It’s not just soap
Today, as a cleaning product formulator, I get to play with all sorts of different chemicals.
I spend my weekdays measuring and mixing, adding a pinch of this and a jigger of that. I guess you could say I’m one part chef, one part kid with a chemistry set.
But there is one thing that I have learned over my years of studying chemistry and working as a formulator: It is most definitely not all just soap.
Perhaps the most misunderstood and confusing components of cleaning chemicals are the actual detergents, or surfactants.
Cleaning chemical variety
Surfactants (short for surface-active agents) are molecules that contain a hydrophilic, or “water-loving” end, and a hydrophobic, or “water-fearing” end.
The electrical charge on the water-loving end of the molecule distinguishes between the different types of surfactants.
Surfactants come in four different types: Anionic, nonionic, cationic and amphoteric.
Once you understand the differences between these different surfactant types, as well as how to classify them by their names, choosing the right cleaning products should be a snap.
Anionic surfactants
Probably the most commonly used surfactants in carpet cleaning chemistry are anionic surfactants.
Anionic surfactants possess a negative charge on their hydrophilic end. This charge helps the surfactant molecules to interact with both the carpet fibers and soil particles, lifting and suspending soils in “bubble-like” arrangements called micelles.
Anionic surfactants possess other benefits that make them ideal for certain carpet applications.
Generally, they make a lot of foam when agitated. Also, they tend to be flaky or powdery when dry, not sticky like other surfactants.
Anionic surfactants, therefore, are the most common type of surfactant found in low moisture carpet cleaners, like traditional shampoos and encapsulation products.
However, these detergents tend to not be as good at emulsifying oily soils as some other detergent types.
When reading the ingredients list on your cleaning products, you can identify anionic surfactants as those that have the following in their names:
Nonionic surfactants are also found in many cleaning products, including carpet products. Nonionics have no charge on their hydrophilic end, which helps make them superior oily soil emulsifiers.
Some nonionics are high foamers (like anionics), while others do not generate much foam. Because of their lower foam profile and strong emulsifying potential, these surfactants are the preferred choice when formulating extraction cleaners and pre sprays.
However, unlike anionic surfactants, nonionics are thick liquids or syrups that are sticky or “gooey” to the touch. When left in the carpet, nonionic surfactants are the primary contributors to rapid resoiling.
Even with that being the case, their importance as cleaners outweighs this negative, and the cleaner or technician must take care to remove as much of the detergent residue as possible from the carpet in order to get the cleaning benefits of nonionics without their negatives.
Nonionic surfactants include:
Cationic surfactants are less common in cleaners, and almost always absent from carpet products.
Cationics have positively charged ends, which makes them ideal in antistatic formulas like fabric softeners and automobile “cheater waxes.”
Also, cationic surfactants have antimicrobial characteristics, and they are found in hard-surface disinfectants and cleaners.
However, cationic surfactants have been shown to damage the mill-applied protectants on carpet, and are therefore strictly verboten in carpet products.
Formulas containing cationic surfactants cannot be mixed with those containing oppositely charged anionic surfactants. The molecules would interact with each other, producing a gooey mess that drops out of solution.
When reading the ingredients list, look for the words “chloride” or “bromide” (as in alkylbenzene ammonium chloride) to identify cationics.
Amphoteric surfactants
Probably the least talked about surfactants are the amphoterics. These unique molecules possess both a positive and a negative charge on their hydrophilic end, giving them a net charge of zero.
Amphoteric surfactants have little utility on their own, but work extremely well in enhancing the cleaning effect of both anionic and nonionic surfactants. They can serve as “coupling agents,” which hold the surfactants, solvents and inorganic salt components of a formula together.
Amphoterics are usually named in some way to indicate that they are amphoterics, as in amphoterge. Other examples of amphoterics are betaines and amine oxides.
A buffet of chemistry
With all these different types of surfactants, and with a seemingly infinite list of each type of surfactant, it is a wonder that formulators are able to choose the right detergent for the right application.
Experienced formulators have gotten their hands dirty working with many different types of detergents in an effort to make just the right blend of cleaning agents.
Any formulator worth his salt will be quick to tell you that not all surfactants are created equal, and that some cleaners are better than others, given the situation.
Timothy J. Roach has a B.S. degree in biology and chemistry from Duke University and an M.S. in chemistry from Northwestern University.
https://cleanfax.com/carpet-care/anionic-nonionic-cationic-what-do-they-all-mean/
Anionic, Nonionic, Cationic
What do these surfactant names really mean?
Timothy J. Roach—
As a young boy growing up on Long Island, I remember watching my mother frantically trying to clean up some unknown food or drink spill from our carpet before company came.
She’d scrub and scrub, actually spreading the spill instead of cleaning it.
And, of course, with no carpet spot remover in the house, she would be forced to try whatever was handy, such as laundry detergent, dish soap, maybe even some alkaline degreaser from my dad’s workroom.
“Shouldn’t you use carpet cleaner on that?” I’d ask.
“It’s just soap,” she would reply. “It’s all the same.”
It’s not just soap
Today, as a cleaning product formulator, I get to play with all sorts of different chemicals.
I spend my weekdays measuring and mixing, adding a pinch of this and a jigger of that. I guess you could say I’m one part chef, one part kid with a chemistry set.
But there is one thing that I have learned over my years of studying chemistry and working as a formulator: It is most definitely not all just soap.
Perhaps the most misunderstood and confusing components of cleaning chemicals are the actual detergents, or surfactants.
Cleaning chemical variety
Surfactants (short for surface-active agents) are molecules that contain a hydrophilic, or “water-loving” end, and a hydrophobic, or “water-fearing” end.
The electrical charge on the water-loving end of the molecule distinguishes between the different types of surfactants.
Surfactants come in four different types: Anionic, nonionic, cationic and amphoteric.
Once you understand the differences between these different surfactant types, as well as how to classify them by their names, choosing the right cleaning products should be a snap.
Anionic surfactants
Probably the most commonly used surfactants in carpet cleaning chemistry are anionic surfactants.
Anionic surfactants possess a negative charge on their hydrophilic end. This charge helps the surfactant molecules to interact with both the carpet fibers and soil particles, lifting and suspending soils in “bubble-like” arrangements called micelles.
Anionic surfactants possess other benefits that make them ideal for certain carpet applications.
Generally, they make a lot of foam when agitated. Also, they tend to be flaky or powdery when dry, not sticky like other surfactants.
Anionic surfactants, therefore, are the most common type of surfactant found in low moisture carpet cleaners, like traditional shampoos and encapsulation products.
However, these detergents tend to not be as good at emulsifying oily soils as some other detergent types.
When reading the ingredients list on your cleaning products, you can identify anionic surfactants as those that have the following in their names:
- Sodium
- Ammonium
- Magnesium
- Sulfate
- Sulfonate
- Gluconate
(For example, sodium laurel sarcosinate, magnesium laurel sulfate, and sodium gluconate.)
Nonionic surfactants are also found in many cleaning products, including carpet products. Nonionics have no charge on their hydrophilic end, which helps make them superior oily soil emulsifiers.
Some nonionics are high foamers (like anionics), while others do not generate much foam. Because of their lower foam profile and strong emulsifying potential, these surfactants are the preferred choice when formulating extraction cleaners and pre sprays.
However, unlike anionic surfactants, nonionics are thick liquids or syrups that are sticky or “gooey” to the touch. When left in the carpet, nonionic surfactants are the primary contributors to rapid resoiling.
Even with that being the case, their importance as cleaners outweighs this negative, and the cleaner or technician must take care to remove as much of the detergent residue as possible from the carpet in order to get the cleaning benefits of nonionics without their negatives.
Nonionic surfactants include:
- Ethoxylates
- Alkoxylates
- Cocamide
Cationic surfactants are less common in cleaners, and almost always absent from carpet products.
Cationics have positively charged ends, which makes them ideal in antistatic formulas like fabric softeners and automobile “cheater waxes.”
Also, cationic surfactants have antimicrobial characteristics, and they are found in hard-surface disinfectants and cleaners.
However, cationic surfactants have been shown to damage the mill-applied protectants on carpet, and are therefore strictly verboten in carpet products.
Formulas containing cationic surfactants cannot be mixed with those containing oppositely charged anionic surfactants. The molecules would interact with each other, producing a gooey mess that drops out of solution.
When reading the ingredients list, look for the words “chloride” or “bromide” (as in alkylbenzene ammonium chloride) to identify cationics.
Amphoteric surfactants
Probably the least talked about surfactants are the amphoterics. These unique molecules possess both a positive and a negative charge on their hydrophilic end, giving them a net charge of zero.
Amphoteric surfactants have little utility on their own, but work extremely well in enhancing the cleaning effect of both anionic and nonionic surfactants. They can serve as “coupling agents,” which hold the surfactants, solvents and inorganic salt components of a formula together.
Amphoterics are usually named in some way to indicate that they are amphoterics, as in amphoterge. Other examples of amphoterics are betaines and amine oxides.
A buffet of chemistry
With all these different types of surfactants, and with a seemingly infinite list of each type of surfactant, it is a wonder that formulators are able to choose the right detergent for the right application.
Experienced formulators have gotten their hands dirty working with many different types of detergents in an effort to make just the right blend of cleaning agents.
Any formulator worth his salt will be quick to tell you that not all surfactants are created equal, and that some cleaners are better than others, given the situation.
Timothy J. Roach has a B.S. degree in biology and chemistry from Duke University and an M.S. in chemistry from Northwestern University.
Last edited by a moderator:
Don't thank me, Fred saved the day and cleaned up my potty mouth posts.@Nomad74 thanks. He posted the whole website instead.
DWIGHT@FSC
Member
Thanks Willy,, it’s great to hear some one who has had great success with it and understands how it works.! I’ve used Procyon as well for years , it works super as well. I’ll try the mix combo, it should work fine. If you do EnCap, I’ve mixed clean with relesit basic and it works as good or better than the Hydrox relesit .
DWIGHT@FSC
Member
That’s ok ! I don’t care if I’m respected or not ! I’m a Virgo and this is how I bring everyone out in the Arena ...
Hack Attack
Member
No self respecting person should know what star sign they are
encapman
Member
I was using UltrChemLabs for a while in the late 90's. The idea of cleaning with neutral polarity intrigued me. But when I asked smarter people than me about it, I was informed that it isn't possible for a water based cleaner to change its polarity to neutral. H2O is a polar + molecule. And there's no way to alter the polarity of a water molecule.
Cleanworks
Moderator
Straight up. Let it sit a couple of minutes but nothing happened. Rinsed it and used t-rust to take it out.
Desk Jockey
Member
Whew that was a close one, just think if you cared.
Worked out well in the end though, you're not and you don't care about it.
see below for pics of ultrachem cleaning
Clean on rust
Desk Jockey
Member
Whut did you do lick the lens before you snapped that picture?
F
FB19087
Guest
ultrachem? Is that the blue stuff at the bottom of prochem buckets when you don't mix them?
Whut did you do lick the lens before you snapped that picture?
No Mr. Pizzle. Why do ask?
Desk Jockey
Member
Not bad for jan-san chems. Combined with your portable cleaning, how much a sq/ft....do you pay people to allow you to fookup their carpets? 
Zee
Supportive Member
F
FB19087
Guest
yep
Kenny Hayes
Member
I don’t know about Electrolytic cleaning, but I love electrostatic disinfecting. Holy cow, whether I buy into the chemistry or not I use it. When my schools start hollering, flu, flu, flu I get that after em. They buy in more ways than one I had one school close down for me to go to town, so I did!
I had one school close down for me to go to town, so I did!
