Thinking of buying a Hagopian Truck?

[Ben L]

Please let me help you so do not make the same mistakes I made.

A. Get everything in writing. Especially, what they are going to do if your new truck does not operate correctly on day one.
B. As part of your sales process implement an ACCOUNTABILITY PLATFORM.
C. I purchased a Butler System in a GMC Van sight unseen and had it shipped to Washington in mid winter. We took them at their word and website: “ The most trusted name since 1939, Hagopian stands for Honesty”.

1. Request their startup recommendations. I followed Butler's exactly, Hagopian recommends different start up procedures. (If the truck was winterized). They did not provide me with any startup procedures.
2. Ask for their sales check list that they use for preparing the trucks for sale. See the actual list and who signed off that everything was done. (I did not request that, just took them at their word)
3. Service records for both the van and Butler equipment (I did not see that as well). They run a 40 vehicle shop now and have great records.
4. Please check everything, every system to make sure it operates correctly and is not leaking. Take lots of pictures and videos. If you are in another state like me, have them do it to prove everything works. Another suggestion is to pay another business that runs Butlers to do the inspection for you.
5. Especially check the heat. They buy high heat Butlers. If yours is NOT running 230+ but standard temp of 195- 200, something is big time wrong. A must, check to make sure the heat -exchanger lines are hooked up properly. Mine was shipped with the lines being reversed (running 195-200, standard heat) and when connected properly it ran 160. Not acceptable. No one will buy a truck with that low of heat. The lower heat ex-changer coils were covered with a black concrete type material that prevented them from conducting.

To make my truck run properly on day 1, a number or parts needed to be replaced: Max Heat Exchanger, chemical pump, actuator (or dampener), dump valve, live hose real swivel and the service line for the blower was melted closed. I had to cannibalize my 1997 to make my new 2011 work properly. Hagopian only paid 65% of the total bill. Because we did not have the above procedures in place it was a real fight to get that. Then within 1 month of operation we had another $1,000 in parts including the cat pump going out and parts on the van.

Do your ground work first! The truck looks AWESOME with fresh paint in and out, but they have to run properly too!

 

[Mikey P]

@Brian H

 

[bob vawter]

Everyone here knows you should a bought a jus like new SteamGenie....
CRASH bought his used Genie from me 11 years ago.....and it is still running great and probably will so for another 10 years or so
This is probably due to the fact that they
Just don't break down........

 

[steve_64]

Everyone here knows you you should a bought a jus like new SteamGenie....
CRASH bought his used Genie from me 11 years ago.....and it is still running great and probably will so for another 10 years or so

I had to use a crayon to dial in the pulley on my Hagopian.
Had to add a filter and fix some leaks too. Hoses started leaking. The damper went out shortly after getting it.

Guess I could've spent thirty grand on a cheiftan that needs a motor.

 

[dealtimeman]

Are you complaining about buying an almost 9 year old very used truck with a boatload of hours on it, because you wanted to save money from buying a new unit?

You took a risk buying it used for the advantage of saving a lot of money.

Just to let you know, risks are risks for a reason. They are not called guarantees.

Yours happen to fail, it happens, if they paid to fix most of it then I don’t understand the problem.

 

[Nomad74]

This seems like a potentially toxic thread.

 

[FredC]

Sounds like you got a deal

 

[bob vawter]

From my experience in selling direct drive machines and trucks...most customers have absolutely NO questions to ask when looking at a potential machine to buy....most of my customers got my name from who knows where......and i had to give them the two hour coarse over the phone to even convince them that i knew what i was doing and that it would be worth looking at what i built.......once here...i'm pretty sure i never lost a sale....

 

[Ben L]

Are you complaining about buying an almost 9 year old very used truck with a boatload of hours on it, because you wanted to save money from buying a new unit?

You took a risk buying it used for the advantage of saving a lot of money.

Just to let you know, risks are risks for a reason. They are not called guarantees.

Yours happen to fail, it happens, if they paid to fix most of it then I don’t understand the problem.

It is called honesty and integrity. They claim to go through the trucks top to bottom and make sure everything is running properly and serviced properly . They even said if I had any problems they would take care of it. The rub comes when they intentionally switched the heat exchange lines to make it appear it was running correctly when it was not. Again, no would buy a 160 temp truck. Then it took an extreme amount of effort to prove that to them and that they sold me a very defective truck. They even made the same claims of a tier one truck that was very well maintained to my banker that had to approve of the loan. They were a lot more issues that I have not mentioned as well.
I would strongly suggest anyone take heart of my suggestions.

 

[Ben L]

From my experience in selling direct drive machines and trucks...most customers have absolutely NO questions to ask when looking at a potential machine to buy....most of my customers got my name from who knows where......and i had to give them the two hour coarse over the phone to even convince them that i knew what i was doing and that it would be worth looking at what i built.......once here...i'm pretty sure i never lost a sale....

I have ran a Butler System for over 15 years now, 14,000 hours and have replaced just about everything on it but the blower and the tanks. I was very specific in what I was looking for and had specific questions about maintenance. So, confidence was high until I went to start it up on day one. Lots and lots of issues and problems as mentioned.

 

[Mikey P]

How much was it?

 

[Ben L]

Sounds like you got a deal

Define deal please. Cannibalizing my old truck to make my new truck work, over 20 hours of diagnostic time to determine the heat exchanger problem and replacing parts. Had to get Butler service involved to help with diagnostics, not to mention loss of productive time for both me and them. Yes they do look good. But looks can be deceiving.

 

[Acp]

is a "hagopian" mean its a truck that was ran by a carpet cleaning company named that? or is it like a used butler dealer?

 

[Dolly Llama]

is a "hagopian" mean its a truck that was ran by a carpet cleaning company named that? or is it like a used butler dealer?

40 truck cleaning outfit in the Detroit metro area
good outfit not known for being shifty

Run by member Brian who's a stand-up guy

Not getting in the middle of this one .

I have no reason to believe Ben is telling a story .
and don't believe Brian is intentionally deceptive

I will say, I'd personally never make a major used purchase without looking it over and running it

..L.T.A.

 

[Ben L]

How much was it?

$21,000 plus $4073.77 in parts and labor to make the Butler System operate correctly on day 1.

 

[steve_64]

I got what I expected. I'm very happy with what I got. A heavily used refurbished van and butler for about $20 grand. Lots of new parts but needed fine tuning to fit my needs.

The heat exchanger issue would've bugged me too. Now I want to go look inside mine.

Sounds like they did right by reimbursing some of the cost. I did buy mine as is.

 

[FB7777]

Are you complaining about buying an almost 9 year old very used truck with a boatload of hours on it, because you wanted to save money from buying a new unit?

You took a risk buying it used for the advantage of saving a lot of money.

Just to let you know, risks are risks for a reason. They are not called guarantees.

Yours happen to fail, it happens, if they paid to fix most of it then I don’t understand the problem.

X2

I miss Ken

After “running Butlers for 15 years and 14,000 hrs why not buy new?

$21k is nothing , I’d expect some issues with a truck that used

They’ve sold a ton of them at Hagopian. Can’t please them all

 

[FredC]

Define deal please.

You tell us.

I see you listed the price above but what were the advertised details? How many hour/miles?

So they paid over $2600 after you purchased your used unit to make things "right"? Would you say that is about the depreciated value of the components had they worked properly on your used unit? They essentially subsidized a new heat exchanger and other parts for you.







Having said that I wouldn't buy a machine sight unseen nor a 5-7 year old unit from a high volume company.

 

[FB7777]

I’d really like to know why a guy that runs his equipment over 900 hours a year wants to run a unit that used.

Hagopian trucks look like startup or backup units to me

 

[Ben L]

40 truck cleaning outfit in the Detroit metro area
good outfit not known for being shifty

Run by member Brian who's a stand-up guy

Not getting in the middle of this one .

I have no reason to believe Ben is telling a story .
and don't believe Brian is intentionally deceptive

I will say, I'd personally never make a major used purchase without looking it over and running it

..L.T.A.

I really thought the same thing from all the conversations I had with him and my banker had several with him too. Remember the truck was shipped to me will all these problems, day one. It was a nightmare to get him to replace the lower heat ex-changer and pay for parts that needed to be replaced. He even blamed me for the problem until I got Tom Kenney at Butler in the loop. Then more drama because he wasn't going to pay for installation untill I got Edmond Hagopian in the loop. To say that putting in a soft water tank damaged the lower heat exchange, replacing chemical pump & dampener and fixing the service line for the blower caused the lower heat exchanger to go out was just over the top. Please take a closer look at the picture. They had some major problems with this truck before they sold it to me.

I live in Washington State and with all of our conversation and research both my banker and myself felt very confortable in making the purchase sight unseen. I just do not want someone else to go through what I have gone through so I made this post. Yes, you need look everything over first or have someone do it for you.

 

[Ben L]

I’d really like to know why a guy that runs his equipment over 900 hours a year wants to run a unit that used.

Hagopian trucks look like startup or backup units to me

There are lots of reasons to buy verses lease. I have ran a succesful family business for19 years. I bought my first 1997 Butler used and look how long I have used it. My operating costs, even buying used are less than other carpet cleaners in my area with other that brands that are new. My 1997 Butler ran better than my newer 2011. The GM body on the 1997 was starting to show signs of age so I wanted to replace it.

 

[bob vawter]

40 truck cleaning outfit in the Detroit metro area
good outfit not known for being shifty

Run by member Brian who's a stand-up guy

Not getting in the middle of this one .

I have no reason to believe Ben is telling a story .
and don't believe Brian is intentionally deceptive

I will say, I'd personally never make a major used purchase without looking it over and running it

..L.T.A.

Nothing worse than an ex carpet cleaner giving advice on carpet cleaning

 

[FB7777]

There are lots of reasons to buy verses lease. I have ran a succesful family business for19 years. I bought my first 1997 Butler used and look how long I have used it. My operating costs, even buying used are less than other carpet cleaners in my area with other that brands that are new. My 1997 Butler ran better than my newer 2011. The GM body on the 1997 was starting to show signs of age so I wanted to replace it.

for $26k after your 'aggravation' it sounds like you got a runner


You didn't really answer the question and I am curious...."why is a guy that claims 900 hours per year on his money maker looking for a very used machine ? '

I know your 'operating costs are lower" but wtf? It don't add up

If my truck was doing '900 hours a year' it would be pulling north of $350,000 ;

I run my Butlers between 600-700 hours a year and do OK

I just dropped $65 k on a new one and I'm buying another new one end of 2020 cause my 2005 is getting tired and old looking


I hold my units for 10 plus years and then dump them for peanuts cause they are USED up


If it sounds like we are defending Hagopian , it's because they're the real deal and you sound like you're expecting a Butler Reconditioned unit from the factory...


Try pricing out one of those bad boys...

$27k would be a nice down payment ....

 

[Kenny Hayes]

It becomes a habit to operate the way you always have. If you started used and on a limb, but succeeded, you continue. But most of the time it will catch up with you. Hopefully it don’t bite you too bad. I operated a lot like that
in the janitor business. I won a lot and lost some. Take your lumps and go on. Expense it off on your taxes. Thanks for your concern for us.

 

[Ben L]

It becomes a habit to operate the way you always have. If you started used and on a limb, but succeeded, you continue. But most of the time it will catch up with you. Hopefully it don’t bite you too bad. I operated a lot like that
in the janitor business. I won a lot and lost some. Take your lumps and go on. Expense it off on your taxes. Thanks for your concern for us.

Thanks, that is exactly what I have done. Yes, the truck is awesome now and I really enjoy it!

 

[Ben L]

for $26k after your 'aggravation' it sounds like you got a runner


You didn't really answer the question and I am curious...."why is a guy that claims 900 hours per year on his money maker looking for a very used machine ? '

I know your 'operating costs are lower" but wtf? It don't add up

If my truck was doing '900 hours a year' it would be pulling north of $350,000 ;

I run my Butlers between 600-700 hours a year and do OK

I just dropped $65 k on a new one and I'm buying another new one end of 2020 cause my 2005 is getting tired and old looking


I hold my units for 10 plus years and then dump them for peanuts cause they are USED up


If it sounds like we are defending Hagopian , it's because they're the real deal and you sound like you're expecting a Butler Reconditioned unit from the factory...


Try pricing out one of those bad boys...

$27k would be a nice down payment ....

Well, I think you have missed the point. The point of this post is to educate a person who wants to buy a used truck on what questions to ask, check things out completely no matter what lip service and what company you are buying it from. Then, hold them accountable no matter how much drama you need to go through. The right things is always the right thing!

I am not going to debate how you want to run your business and I how I run mine. You like to buy new stuff, good for you! I refuse to judge the way you run yours, so please do the same for me. Also, remember you are in a different market than me and there are a whole lot of other variables to determine what business practices are best.

 

[FB7777]

Fair enough and I absolutely didn’t miss your point , just believe it to be misguided and unreasonable

And definitely find it implausible that a guy runs 900 hours a year on old equipment

 

[The Great Oz]

Good for Hagopian to pay for some repair.

When we sell trucks we go through them to make sure everything is in working order, and have done front end or transmission repairs prior to sale. Still, we're not rebuilding them, and sometimes a customer will find something that we missed.

We do try to make it clear that a used unit may have something that fails soon after purchase that we couldn't possibly know about, and we hope that buying a clean unit for less than market price gives the buyer room to pay for the repair without being too upset about it.

Now that I read this post, I realize we've had a few misunderstandings with no preview/long distance/shipped vehicles. I'm not interested in making checklists and videos, so I may skip that kind of sale in the future.

 

[FB7777]

Guy got a great deal

You guys covered repairs after the sale

Guy ends up saying that NOW he loves the unit

And then bitches cause his 8 year old machine isn’t operating like it came off the showroom floor


Keep doing what you’re doing Hagopian, every once in awhile you run into an unreasonable dick

 

[Cleanworks]

I have never owned a new truck mount. I buy old units, knowing I will have to sink some money into them. I can do a lot of work myself and don't mind paying for what I can't. I look for bargains and know how to test for major problems. The unit I recently installed in my little box truck, I paid $500 for it. Rebuilt the kero heater for about $1000 then scrapped it. Didn't like the smoke or smell. Replaced it with a LG 3 ht High pressure heater. All told, I have less than $3500 in it and it works better than I ever expected. My little Astro Van with the CDS, I paid $3000. Needed brakes, tires and have had to flush the cooling system and heat exchangers several times to get rid of all the gunk. Maybe a fuel pump now. I am into in for less than $5500 and except for the recent fuel pump mishap, it's a great little unit. My main unit was custom built for me for about $9000. That's the closest I have been to a new unit. I have had that same unit for over 15 years, rebuilt the honda engine once. I have inspected a lot of second hand units for other cleaners and have always found issues not disclosed by the sellers. I would never buy one sight unseen or untested by some one I know and trust. I don't think people are being necessarily dishonest, the unit works good enough for them. If they were going to rebuild it, they would probably be keeping it