What would you like from the IICRC?

[J Scott W]

I think many cleaners have limited understanding or misunderstanding of what IICRC is and what it is supposed to do.

IICRC is not a marketing organization. It does very limited marketing. The marketing that is done is most beneficial to restoration and remediation companies who make up the majority of the paying members.

The IICRC does give the owner / operator something legitimate to market. Think about Stanley Steemer marking their "certification" of providing allergy relief. The allergy foundation does not do the marketing, the corporation and the individual companies have marketed the heck out of that. Plastered over the side of every vehicle, in all their ads. If you are a certified firm, you could also market your certification. Don't expect IICRC to do it for you. That was never the intention or promise or goal of IICRC.

The IICRC does have length of service requirements that someone mentioned. For most classes, they must have spent 5 of the last 7 years before they began instructing working in the field they teach as their primary job.

Yes, their are some poor instructors. (I won't mention names. A few of them worked for me when I ran education department at Interlink.) There are also some excellent ones out there. Do a little checking before you attend or send your techs to a class. I guarantee they will learn something from Doug Heiferman, Shawn Bissilon (I know I spelled that wrong.), Barry Costa, Tom Slattery, Rachel Adams, Dane Gregory and several others.

I will gladly offer my thoughts on any instructor, in private communications.

There were a few on-line continuing education classes offered. In fact they are still available. Dane Gregory even advertises them here on Mikey's Board. Very few made the choice to attend. Just like your business, instructors are not going to invest in providing a service that no one will buy. No support for on-line training means few on-line classes. You get on-line education not by saying you want it but by showing there is a market for it.

 

[hogjowl]

Whatever

 

[FB7777]

X2

My issue is not with a certifying organization being in any way responsible for advertising their existence


I won’t contribute to an organization whose owners pocket all the profits and/or use its proceeds for their own benefit


And if you deny that is the protocol now you’re FOS

#showmethebooks

 

[Jimmy L]

Right now I am starting the impeachment process to oust the fat head arrogant Paytoilet from the iicrc.

I know there is Ukraine money involved...........

 

[FB7777]

I have complete faith in the integrity of Mike


If Pemberton would jump back in I would know the swamp was additionally being purified

Several conversations with the leather Canadian and his insider abuse stories was enough for me to hear


Of course ,who knew he was in for the score instead of guarding the safe?

 

[Small town janitorial]

I know very little to nothing about iirc. But from the consumer and small buisness owner perspective I think things have changed in the last 20 yrs. When I see "certified" on a product that doesnt add any weight. From consumer reports to appliances to vehicles, I have very little trust in claims like that. I cant see either the iirc themselves, or the cleaning buisness, educating the customer on the value of certification. Especially if the cleaners themselves dont respect and value the cert. It's difficult to convince your customers the value of it if you dont respect the training and knowledge behind it yourself. Some can sell a product or label they dont believe in, but they are liars and tend to be poor quality tradesman in themselves.
The other approach to the iirc adding value to their program leads toward services like Yelp and home advisor. And most of us small buisness owners hate them and dont respect them either. And even though they are popular with Suzy home maker right now, the inconsistency of their "services" is going to make them obsolete in the long run. Imo.
As a small buisness, I see the value of education. They have to offer something that I cant get from free reading online. Either in quality of information, or hands on training. Or they have to offer an effective way to train techs for larger companies. If iirc or anyone else can do that then i support them. If they cant do that then I see no place for them. But like I started out with, what do I know.

 

[Cleanworks]

It's like "certified" organic. Really? Certified by who?

 

[Hack Attack]

It's like "certified" organic. Really? Certified by who?

generally biogro, demeter or usda and theres others but don't get me started on those organisations.. lol

 

[Cleanworks]

generally biogro, demeter or usda and theres others but don't get me started on those organisations.. lol

My sister has an organic farm in Saskatchewan. She only grows hay for her animals. The farms next door spray all kinds of pesticides and herbicides. I guess they must stop at her fence line and drop out of the air.

 

[Hack Attack]

I think education in a chosen field should be encouraged for the benefit of the industry as a whole.

But where a complete novice can enroll in a course and pass isn't a credible achievment, its like giving kids a goldstar for partipation award.

Carpet cleaning isn't rocket science but an experienced tech will spot a rookie in 5mins regardless of a patch

 

[Hack Attack]

My sister has an organic farm in Saskatchewan. She only grows hay for her animals. The farms next door spray all kinds of pesticides and herbicides. I guess they must stop at her fence line and drop out of the air.

buffer zones blah blah

some properties cant be certed organic depending on whats being grown

I managed a grape block that has DDT residues from the 70s, it could never be certed organic for livestock as they pick up DDT but grapes dont so it passed

 

[rwcarpet]

Transparency in their pay structure, what exactly they do and how much time they actually spend doing it. So that we can see what they actually do and how much they are paid for it.

Make themselves relevant. If the public knows practically nothing about them, they and their certificate are practically useless for us.

How many here completely dropped them even though (like me) they were certified up the kazoo?

Me.

I was certified before certification was cool. 90's??

 

[randy]

Owner/operator when certified, automatically becomes a certified firm. 50% or more employees must be certified by any size firm to have certified firm status.

Excellent IDEA ! They will never do it but it's a great idea.

Ed York's Society of Cleaning Technicians was fun and the education was a monthly newsletter...included marketing and how to be successful as well as how to do things.
There were classes and get togethers that remind me of Mikey Fests.
Mike reminds me of Ed...in a good way.
Most of the IICRC classes are overly technical.
I think there are too many letters in IICRC.
We are Cleaners and smart but a little ADD...stop boring us to death.
(quoted from above)

God Bless, ED YORK. One of my favorite people in this industry ever.
Ralph Bloss, Bob Whitkamp and Lee Pemberton too. Those guys were and are super-heroes to the struggling newbie.
A collection of their insights, teaching and wisdom would be a great product.
Especially if on video.
Worth way more than any collection of IICRC classes will ever give you.

 

[Dolly Llama]

the vast majority of CC'ers live in the world of W2W synthetic and near indestructible hard surface

in this day 'n age where any/all info/education is available at the peck of keyboard for FREE...you'll have a hard time convincing the "everyday regular rug suckers" the IICRC or other cert bodies are any real value to them

..L.T.A.

 

[FB7777]

the vast majority of CC'ers live in the world of W2W synthetic and near indestructible hard surface

in this day 'n age where any/all info/education is available at the peck of keyboard for FREE...you'll have a hard time convincing the "everyday regular rug suckers" the IICRC or other cert bodies are any real value to them

..L.T.A.

I agree

You’ll learn more from Saigervision about real world cleaning than listening to a bloviating patch junkie rewriting his stellar career as a business owner

 

[Greg Miller]

I think there is a huge disconnect between cleaners/technicians and the IICRC as to value and credibility. I also believe that same disconnect exists between the IICRC and our customers. For the most part our customers have no idea who /what the IICRC is nor do they care.

 

[ruff]

I think many cleaners have limited understanding or misunderstanding of what IICRC is and what it is supposed to do.

IICRC is not a marketing organization. It does very limited marketing. The marketing that is done is most beneficial to restoration and remediation companies who make up the majority of the paying members.

The IICRC does give the owner / operator something legitimate to market. Think about Stanley Steemer marking their "certification" of providing allergy relief. The allergy foundation does not do the marketing, the corporation and the individual companies have marketed the heck out of that. Plastered over the side of every vehicle, in all their ads. If you are a certified firm, you could also market your certification. Don't expect IICRC to do it for you. That was never the intention or promise or goal of IICRC.

The IICRC does have length of service requirements that someone mentioned. For most classes, they must have spent 5 of the last 7 years before they began instructing working in the field they teach as their primary job.

Yes, their are some poor instructors. (I won't mention names. A few of them worked for me when I ran education department at Interlink.) There are also some excellent ones out there. Do a little checking before you attend or send your techs to a class. I guarantee they will learn something from Doug Heiferman, Shawn Bissilon (I know I spelled that wrong.), Barry Costa, Tom Slattery, Rachel Adams, Dane Gregory and several others.

I will gladly offer my thoughts on any instructor, in private communications.

There were a few on-line continuing education classes offered. In fact they are still available. Dane Gregory even advertises them here on Mikey's Board. Very few made the choice to attend. Just like your business, instructors are not going to invest in providing a service that no one will buy. No support for on-line training means few on-line classes. You get on-line education not by saying you want it but by showing there is a market for it.

Scott, thank you for your thoughtful and detailed answer.

There's nothing holly about the IICRC current goals (it ain't the bible), change them.

The fact of the matter is that they have not marketed their Symbol (which supposedly represents a promise of professionalism). The public doesn't knows about them or their certificate.

We both know that in reality it represents very little guarantee of professionalism.

Their symbol is supposed to help us present a level of professionalism in the eyes of the consumer. The public does not know about it. Therefore only large companies with a big marketing budget can invest in creating public awareness for it and benefit from it. Yet these large companies pay only a small part of the cost.

Marketing wise, the green cleaner and O/O who spent years and many classes honing their skills, are put in the same class. Both carry that paragon of knowledge- the IICRC certificate. So any O/O that contributes to that organization is clearly acting against their financial interest. As his years of experience are put on the same level as a rookie that took a two days class and was spoon fed the answers.

Their classes give little practical knowledge or know how and are bureaucratic by nature.

And.......this is hear say, as I don't know personally. We were told that for many years it has enriched people way beyond their contribution without much supervision.

 

[Brian H]

We have not bothered with IICRC certification for many, many years. A guy who has never cleaned a carpet in his life can take a class and claim that they are certified just like Hagopian and use that against us, what is in it for us?

My thought has always been that the certification helps new companies gain legitimacy and really does nothing for long established companies. We have spent 80 years building our brand and the IICRC looks to lump all cleaners together as a "commodity". No sense going with a trusted name anymore or one which you have had years of positive experiences with, just look for the lowest price. The IICRC is in essence promoting as long as company is "certified" the cleaning will all be the same.

Funny though. we are thinking about becoming a certification organization. Send me money every year along with your company name and phone number and you too can be Hagopian certified. That is as soon as your check clears. As an added incentive, if I get enough money, I will send out fancy patches with our Genie logo!!

 

[bob vawter]

Scott, thank you for your thoughtful and detailed answer.

There's nothing holly about the IICRC current goals (it ain't the bible), change them.

The fact of the matter is that they have not marketed their Symbol (which supposedly represents a promise of professionalism). The public doesn't knows about them or their certificate.

We both know that in reality it represents very little guarantee of professionalism.

Their symbol is supposed to help us present a level of professionalism in the eyes of the consumer. The public does not know about it. Therefore only large companies with a big marketing budget can invest in creating public awareness for it and benefit from it. Yet these large companies pay only a small part of the cost.

Marketing wise, the green cleaner and O/O who spent years and many classes honing their skills, are put in the same class. Both carry that paragon of knowledge- the IICRC certificate. So any O/O that contributes to that organization is clearly acting against their financial interest. As his years of experience are put on the same level as a rookie that took a two days class and was spoon fed the answers.

Their classes give little practical knowledge or know how and are bureaucratic by nature.

And.......this is hear say, as I don't know personally. We were told that for many years it has enriched people way beyond their contribution without much supervision.

NOW....I remember why my eyes glazed over that time I stopped to chat wit you at the Cruz fest......I couldn't get away quick enough......

 

[Cleanworks]

We have not bothered with IICRC certification for many, many years. A guy who has never cleaned a carpet in his life can take a class and claim that they are certified just like Hagopian and use that against us, what is in it for us?

My thought has always been that the certification helps new companies gain legitimacy and really does nothing for long established companies. We have spent 80 years building our brand and the IICRC looks to lump all cleaners together as a "commodity". No sense going with a trusted name anymore or one which you have had years of positive experiences with, just look for the lowest price. The IICRC is in essence promoting as long as company is "certified" the cleaning will all be the same.

Funny though. we are thinking about becoming a certification organization. Send me money every year along with your company name and phone number and you too can be Hagopian certified. That is as soon as your check clears. As an added incentive, if I get enough money, I will send out fancy patches with our Genie logo!!

Ironically, I bet a lot of carpet and rug cleaners would pay to be Hagopian certified. Who knows, you might be onto a good thing.

 

[Cleanworks]

I had been in the carpet cleaning business for 4-5 years before taking my first IICUC class. Although I had acquired a fair amount of knowledge, what I learned in the class made it all make sense. I had 2 very good instructors and several no minds. The class material was well designed, just not always well presented. Having 20-30 carpet cleaners in the same room was an experience all of its own. I felt I gained a lot of valuable knowledge, not always from the course material. Only one course gave hands on training, that was an upholstery course where I learned to clean with "style".

 

[bob vawter]

I gotta say that Hagopian and their pretty
Purple trucks purty much has the best reputation In the Detroit metro area......hands down...sorry Art!
And they are so far from IICRC........as you can get.....Modernistic.....Steemer.....
All the same.....kicking ass an takin numbers....two jet......no glide emulsifiers.......??????

 

[Matt Middleton]

I had been in the carpet cleaning business for 4-5 years before taking my first IICUC class. Although I had acquired a fair amount of knowledge, what I learned in the class made it all make sense. I had 2 very good instructors and several no minds. The class material was well designed, just not always well presented. Having 20-30 carpet cleaners in the same room was an experience all of its own. I felt I gained a lot of valuable knowledge, not always from the course material. Only one course gave hands on training, that was an upholstery course where I learned to clean with "style".

Excellent point!

 

[Jimmy L]

I agree!

 

[The Great Oz]

What would you like from the IICRC?

I'd like them to follow through on some concepts that are "right" but not popular with certain insiders because they're money funnels.

#! - The first day of the cleaning courses cover the same ground: materials/construction/chemistry. These subjects and anything else that can be taught on-line can be done in a more comprehensive way and have no travel costs. Passing them becomes a prerequisite to taking a now more relevant in-person class. Ding Tony all you want for buying a building, but that former bank has a vault that would be perfect for damping external noise while making video and sound recordings.

Lack of money isn't stopping this, the instructors are. They want to make sure they can teach two day courses to protect their income. I get it, life as a roving instructor isn't that glamorous, and without a second job/backing from a supplier they have trouble making ends meet. So... if that two days could be more relevant, and skip the first day that everyone (including the instructors) hates going through anyway? Win for everyone. This would require some course rewrites, and some courses really don't require the second day. Sorry, figure it out instead of demanding that education buyers just follow a program that isn't set up with their best interests at the center.

#2 - Drop the Certified Firm program. This is what everyone misunderstands as a membership program, which it is not, and is angry about it being a marketing program with a really low return on investment, which it is. Not to mention that a certification body really shouldn't have a marketing or benefit program anyway, that's the domain of trade associations. The credibility issue comes from trying to disguise it as some assurance of quality for the consumer.

It's a huge profit center which likely pays for some good works, but it doesn't fit. As an insider once said, "You know what you get for your CF money? Nothing. That's what so great about it!"

#3 - Hire a commissioner. Like professional sports, when there's a lot of money laying around, people start making decisions that work that money in their favor. A strong association professional that knows the legalities of running a certification organization should be able to say no when Board members stray from the straight and narrow. If the organization staff can be bent by, say, Board members that vote to pay themselves a salary, and they have no choice but to go along or resign, the organization is in trouble. Having a lawyer that specializes in association law could help with that.

Good luck Mikey.

 

[Mikey P]

Ding Tony all you want for buying a building, but that former bank has a vault that would be perfect for damping external noise while making video and sound recordings.

Rodney Paulson was behind buying that building, Tony just put down the green MnM's for enough time to concur to motion.

 

[hogjowl]

English skills suck

 

[Jimmy L]

Is Jim on the board?
Any conflicts of interest here?

 

[BIG WOOD]

Nothing, IICRC is irrelevant at this point.


They have had 20 years and people still have no clue who they are.

All the insurance companies know who they are. That's about the only ones. I don't think they're on our side though

 

[Hack Attack]

All the insurance companies know who they are. That's about the only ones. I don't think they're on our side though

Insurance companies like standardisation, so yes they know and acknowledge the IICRC

DAMN ANNOYING when you come across a loss adjuster who has done a iicrc course but has zero practical skills or experience and tries to project manage a dry down..