Culling the herd

[Desk Jockey]

I quit talking to Marty years ago! He's a meanie!

 

[Hack Attack]

Marty's always culling the herd

 

[Trip Moses]

I don’t want another mouth to feed

What’s one more to the US taxpayer?

 

[Kenny Hayes]

I’m ready to pay someone to answer my phone.

Mine lives and sleeps with me. Obviously, I pay her a lot! A lot!

 

[Mikey P]

Exactly. I think we had three calls this week about water that came in from a hard rain we had three weeks ago. Lady one: “I just can’t stand the smell anymore.” Dude two: “We were cleaning it up and drying it ourselves but we’re just burnt out now and want you to finish it.” Lady three: “Can I lie and say it happened yesterday?”

48 hours, people, that’s all you have, or we’re referring you to the mold guy.

Does Mold Guy offer creative financing?

 

[darcie smith]

Does Mold Guy offer creative financing?

We have a lunch date scheduled with Mold Guy this week coming so I will find out. I don’t know much about him, but Scott has worked with his company a couple times before I met him. He referred us some work and we want to return the favor, but planned to get together first. We usually refer a regional restoration company in our area for anything out of our league but I’m okay sending Mold Guy some stuff too.

 

[hogjowl]

McDonald’s or Taco Bell?

 

[Nomad74]

McDonald’s or Taco Bell?

Taco Bell sucks now days. I am no longer a patron.

 

[Kenny Hayes]

I don’t disagree

 

[hogjowl]

Taco Bell sucks now days. I am no longer a patron.

I can’t remember the last time I ate there

 

[kmdineen]

Exactly. I think we had three calls this week about water that came in from a hard rain we had three weeks ago. Lady one: “I just can’t stand the smell anymore.” Dude two: “We were cleaning it up and drying it ourselves but we’re just burnt out now and want you to finish it.” Lady three: “Can I lie and say it happened yesterday?”

48 hours, people, that’s all you have, or we’re referring you to the mold guy.

Cleanfax


When Restoration Sciences Academy instructors were writing our mold manual for the three-day and four-day mold courses, this same question became a major unanswered point. We decided to run an experiment.


During the late summer at our Pittsburgh facility, we decided to see if we could determine how long it takes for mold to colonize (grow).


We took a normal 4-foot by 8-foot by ½-inch piece of drywall, cut it in half, making two pieces with dimensions of 4-foot by 4-foot each. One piece was placed in a wallpaper wetting trough, and the other was left alone leaning against the wall (what would be called a “control” specimen).


Both pieces were placed in a two car garage. The trough with the drywall was filled with water. Both pieces were allowed to just sit there. We filled the trough every day as was needed, and took pictures every two to three days.


The garage door on the facility was opened and closed, as the building was used for other work. As such, the garage area was exposed to normal outdoor air, including airborne mold spores.


Temperatures ranged from a low of 60 degrees Fahrenheit to a high of 85 degrees Fahrenheit. The humidity levels were not recorded, but were typical for the month of September in Pittsburgh.


This was just a “let”s see what happens” experiment, not a scientific experiment; therefore, we did not accurately monitor or try to control the environment.


Mold Growth—The surprising results


We expected that in two to three days we would see visible mold colonies (mold growth) on the drywall piece that was in the wet wallpaper trough. What we observed was nothing.


Thinking “maybe the air is dryer in Pittsburgh” we should see mold growth in four or five days. Still nothing. At eight to nine days, still nothing had developed.


It was a full 18 days until we could see visible mold growth!


And as expected, nothing grew on the non-wet “control” piece of drywall.


Everyone who is reading this and been involved with mold is probably saying something like “It may not be visible, but it was there.”


Are you sure?


We have some very conflicting information:

• Personal experience at water jobs: Mold does not seem to grow on every job in 24 to 48 hours
• Personal experience on mold jobs: The labs take 48 to 72 hours to grow mold under ideal conditions
• Non-scientific experiment where mold was not visible until day 18
• The guidance documents imply 24 to 48 hours for mold growth.

With this conflicting information, it is time for more research.


Working in conjunction with my fellow instructors, we did a detailed scientific/technical literature review and found a peer reviewed paper entitled “Controlled Study of Mold Growth and Cleaning Procedure on Treated and Untreated Wet Gypsum Wallboard in an Indoor Environment,” by Michael Krause, CIH, with Veritox Inc.


Krause and his associates performed basically the same test that we did, except they did it with a number of untreated and treated wallboard sheets under very controlled scientific conditions.


According to Krause, it took at least a week to confirm that invisible microscopic growth structures (hyphae) had formed on wet untreated wallboard in a closed office.


Mold growth colonies were not visible on untreated drywall until three weeks into their eight week experiment.


The first mold types seen were Acremonium, Penicillium and Cladosporium. Stachybotrys was never seen. Visible mold did not grow on wallboard that was coated with a primer.


Additionally, a study done by Dr. Michael Berry, prepared for the Carpet and Rug Institute (CRI), showed that drywall and framing lumber, when exposed to a controlled environment with a temperature of 80 degrees Fahrenheit and a relative humidity of 80 percent, did not display visible mold until week five (35 days).


Everyone who is serious about moisture and mold should read both of these studies and the references cited. Please read them before sending me an e-mail, or a letter to the editor. You will find what Krause, Berry, and other papers have proven is very interesting, and goes totally against what most of us have accepted about the amount of time it takes for mold to colonize.


In addition to Krause”s peer reviewed paper, and Dr. Berry”s study, additional peer-review research supports their conclusions that mold does not become visible in 24 to 48 hours.


A listing of a few of these papers is at the end of this article.


It is true that different saprophytic mold species colonize at different rates, and the time required for colonization is affected by different climates and different food sources. But Krause”s test, which is really quite representative of a normal indoor environment, illustrates that it was 21 days before mold growth was visible.


If a reader of this article wants a reference location for virtually everything that deals with mold — different species, affects on human health, how mold attacks different materials, affects of different chemicals, etc. — then the just released New York State Toxic Mold Task Force report is for you. It is 150 pages in length, with 108 references. In my opinion, this report is probably the most complete document compilation of what is really known about mold.


What does this mean to us as water damage mitigators and/or mold remediators? We will continue this topic soon in Cleanfax magazine.

 

[Cleanworks]

Cleanfax


When Restoration Sciences Academy instructors were writing our mold manual for the three-day and four-day mold courses, this same question became a major unanswered point. We decided to run an experiment.


During the late summer at our Pittsburgh facility, we decided to see if we could determine how long it takes for mold to colonize (grow).


We took a normal 4-foot by 8-foot by ½-inch piece of drywall, cut it in half, making two pieces with dimensions of 4-foot by 4-foot each. One piece was placed in a wallpaper wetting trough, and the other was left alone leaning against the wall (what would be called a “control” specimen).


Both pieces were placed in a two car garage. The trough with the drywall was filled with water. Both pieces were allowed to just sit there. We filled the trough every day as was needed, and took pictures every two to three days.


The garage door on the facility was opened and closed, as the building was used for other work. As such, the garage area was exposed to normal outdoor air, including airborne mold spores.


Temperatures ranged from a low of 60 degrees Fahrenheit to a high of 85 degrees Fahrenheit. The humidity levels were not recorded, but were typical for the month of September in Pittsburgh.


This was just a “let”s see what happens” experiment, not a scientific experiment; therefore, we did not accurately monitor or try to control the environment.


Mold Growth—The surprising results


We expected that in two to three days we would see visible mold colonies (mold growth) on the drywall piece that was in the wet wallpaper trough. What we observed was nothing.


Thinking “maybe the air is dryer in Pittsburgh” we should see mold growth in four or five days. Still nothing. At eight to nine days, still nothing had developed.


It was a full 18 days until we could see visible mold growth!


And as expected, nothing grew on the non-wet “control” piece of drywall.


Everyone who is reading this and been involved with mold is probably saying something like “It may not be visible, but it was there.”


Are you sure?


We have some very conflicting information:

• Personal experience at water jobs: Mold does not seem to grow on every job in 24 to 48 hours
• Personal experience on mold jobs: The labs take 48 to 72 hours to grow mold under ideal conditions
• Non-scientific experiment where mold was not visible until day 18
• The guidance documents imply 24 to 48 hours for mold growth.

With this conflicting information, it is time for more research.


Working in conjunction with my fellow instructors, we did a detailed scientific/technical literature review and found a peer reviewed paper entitled “Controlled Study of Mold Growth and Cleaning Procedure on Treated and Untreated Wet Gypsum Wallboard in an Indoor Environment,” by Michael Krause, CIH, with Veritox Inc.


Krause and his associates performed basically the same test that we did, except they did it with a number of untreated and treated wallboard sheets under very controlled scientific conditions.


According to Krause, it took at least a week to confirm that invisible microscopic growth structures (hyphae) had formed on wet untreated wallboard in a closed office.


Mold growth colonies were not visible on untreated drywall until three weeks into their eight week experiment.


The first mold types seen were Acremonium, Penicillium and Cladosporium. Stachybotrys was never seen. Visible mold did not grow on wallboard that was coated with a primer.


Additionally, a study done by Dr. Michael Berry, prepared for the Carpet and Rug Institute (CRI), showed that drywall and framing lumber, when exposed to a controlled environment with a temperature of 80 degrees Fahrenheit and a relative humidity of 80 percent, did not display visible mold until week five (35 days).


Everyone who is serious about moisture and mold should read both of these studies and the references cited. Please read them before sending me an e-mail, or a letter to the editor. You will find what Krause, Berry, and other papers have proven is very interesting, and goes totally against what most of us have accepted about the amount of time it takes for mold to colonize.


In addition to Krause”s peer reviewed paper, and Dr. Berry”s study, additional peer-review research supports their conclusions that mold does not become visible in 24 to 48 hours.


A listing of a few of these papers is at the end of this article.


It is true that different saprophytic mold species colonize at different rates, and the time required for colonization is affected by different climates and different food sources. But Krause”s test, which is really quite representative of a normal indoor environment, illustrates that it was 21 days before mold growth was visible.


If a reader of this article wants a reference location for virtually everything that deals with mold — different species, affects on human health, how mold attacks different materials, affects of different chemicals, etc. — then the just released New York State Toxic Mold Task Force report is for you. It is 150 pages in length, with 108 references. In my opinion, this report is probably the most complete document compilation of what is really known about mold.


What does this mean to us as water damage mitigators and/or mold remediators? We will continue this topic soon in Cleanfax magazine.

I think to a large extent, it depends on the temperature, humidity and food source. I have had older apartment buildings which are poorly insulated get wet through 3 floors without any visible mold growth, even though restoration attempts were delayed several days. I have had other buildings that have exhibited mold growth in as little as 2 days. Wetting a new piece of drywall is probably not the same as wetting a piece of drywall that has been in use in a home for years with the accumulated bacterial growth that would be normal. It seems poorly cleaned/maintained buildings are more subject to mold than well maintained/clean buildings.

 

[Dolly Llama]

yeah, I DID read all that, Marty.
much more interesting than cat puke (not pee) you had a hard time with ...

..L.T.A.

 

[hogjowl]

yeah, I DID read all that, Marty.
much more interesting than cat puke (not pee) you had a hard time with ...

..L.T.A.

That little outburst was unnecessary

 

[steve_64]

I often see mold in non wet environments like on the backsides of basement doors. Usually below ground level where it's always dark but not necessarily humid and not always below ground level.

 

[The Great Oz]

I think to a large extent, it depends on the temperature, humidity and food source. I have had older apartment buildings which are poorly insulated get wet through 3 floors without any visible mold growth, even though restoration attempts were delayed several days. I have had other buildings that have exhibited mold growth in as little as 2 days. Wetting a new piece of drywall is probably not the same as wetting a piece of drywall that has been in use in a home for years with the accumulated bacterial growth that would be normal. It seems poorly cleaned/maintained buildings are more subject to mold than well maintained/clean buildings.

When you see rapid mold growth, it may have been growing and stopping and being painted over long before "the incident" that you were called out to handle.

 

[Numero Uno]

Great article series...

 

[hogjowl]

That’s the first post of yours that I’ve understood