360i 4 port head

[Mikey P]

I have been testing one for a while now would have to confirm that it is indeed 20 to 30% faster than the 3 port head..

Not sure of the price but I'd guess around $450


You'll have to do the math to decide if it is cost effective to upgrade..

Mike,
The true advantage of this new head is performance over time. Eliminating the foam gasket allows the new head to maintain its flow properties for the life of the head. The standard head will degrade over time causing cleaning times to increase. The new head is sealed with an o-ring gasket that never sees the debris that is recovered. All of the recovered water and debris is contained between stainless steel top plate and the head.

The quad head has half the air restriction of the standard head. The new flow chambers are also tapered to better maintain the pressure drop across the entire swoop shoe. The spacer has also been incorporated into the head to smooth the transition between the head and the hub. These changes have taken the air restriction from 7.4% to 3.7%.

The flow improvements aren't huge but every little bit helps. The simpler design works better, will last longer and is easier to clean.

I will work on getting some shims made this week and will get them to you for testing.

Some real life numbers

25' of 1 1/2" vac line 18.5% restriction

50' of 2" vac line 11.1% restriction

360i with a standard swoop shoe head has a restriction of 7.4%

360i with a quad head has a restriction of 3.7%

3 stage CFX, 360i with a quad head on 25' of 1 1/2" line you would have a system restriction of 22.2% or 210 CFM.

3 stage CFX,a 360i with the standard head on 25' of 1 1/2" line you would have a system restriction of 25.9% or 200 CFM.

3 stage CFX,a 360i with a quad head on 50' of 2" line you would have a system restriction of 14.8% or 230 CFM.

3 stage CFX,a 360i with the standard head on 50' of 2" line you would have a system restriction of 18.5% or 220CFM

350 cfm truck mount a 360i with the standard head on 50' of 2" line you would have a system restriction of 18.5% or 285 CFM

350 cfm truck mount a 360i with a quad head on 50' of 2" line you would have a system restriction of 14.8% or 298 CFM


--
Thanks
James Von Protzeller
Engineer
RotoVac Corporation

 

[miksar]

But did it help with your streaking probs?

 

[Mikey P]

better but not 100%, we'll see if the shims he was talking about will help by lifting the jets further off the pile

 

[Jim Martin]

I got some of the shims and the longer stabilizers they helped and Rotovac is on the right track but still had the same problem and it set it out of balance a bit......

 

[Jim Martin]

BTW....why are they selling this for 450 bucks...this is a design flaw in the machine....they should be doing a re-call and replacing them.....

 

[miksar]

Has there ever been a recall on any carpet cleaning equipment? Seems like RV acknowledged the issues by creating the new head, but you know they won't do a recall. Probably offer a trade in type deal. I don't get it, the manufacturers, even some that frequent this board produce stuff and they end up sending out kits or parts to fix some flaw. There's always complaints about the high prices of equipment and the makers use the R&D excuse. Do they just test this stuff in their labs for a few days and call it good? I guess there's enough of us dummies who buy stuff who don't complain to make it profitable for them. Sorry for the rant.

 

[vincent]

You guys claim the 360i streaks, please show a picture.

 

[Mike Draper]

I think this is what RV is referring to.The other day When I made my follow up call to find out if my client was happy she told me it took 33 HOURS :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: for the carpet to dry. I almost died. When I took the head apart I found 2 hair rats in the RV head the size of a baseball. I have for a long time now taken this head apart weekly to clean it out, but this time the build up happened quickly. WE had a lady who had lots and lots and lots of hair :shock:

$450.00 or %25 of the cost of the machine seems really steep to me.
I know this has been an issue with the Rotovac since its inception. I spoke with them about it years ago when the first rv-360 came out. I've even replaced the foam pad before to only have it come apart within a month or so.

Pic of streaking

 

[Mike Draper]

mike, why don't you pull the lid off the head and take a pic of the inside to show us what the new improvements look like?

 

[Mikey P]

never seen streaking that bad Mike...egads..

 

[Mike Draper]

Yeah, that was prolly one of the worst ones I've had.

 

[Mike Draper]

I remember telling them to make their new head exactly like they just did. by having the plastic head almost solid and then have channels through for the water and debris, then get rid of the foam pad. No BS either. I should get a new one for that idea. I even remember the guy I told the idea to "Dan". Dan, if your reading this, call me and hook me up with a deal. shiteatinggrin

 

[Captain Morgan]

I don't get it, the manufacturers, even some that frequent this board produce stuff and they end up sending out kits or parts to fix some flaw.

I worked in technical service for a manufacturer that made test kits and equiptment for veterinary clinics. They developed a particular product that was inferior.. poor design, substrate problems, effected by the heat during shipping, false positives, etc, etc..

It was later leaked, the product was rushed to market with all the know problems.. that prompted a company pow-wow, and the question was asked "why would we do that to our customers, risking alienating them, bad publicity, backlash from disgruntled clinics, etc..

The answer was: it's a competitive marketplace, a rival company was developing a similar product and we wanted to be the first ones to bring it to the industry. The co pres said if they waited to work out all the kinks and delivered a perfect, reliable product it would have been an additional 8 months or more and they would have to play catch-up do to lost marketshare.

He said the days of delivering a perfect product to market are gone. He said that industry standards now are to deliver products at 80% and fix the rest later as you go. Seems kind of shady but that's the world we live in now.

Bill

 

[Art Kelley]

IPic of streaking

You've just lost all credibility when talking about the 360i Drapes. I know Jim Martin has pounded the table about "streaking" with his Rotovac, but I still don't know what he's talking about. I use my 360i everyday on all carpets and it just blows away everything I have ever used. People (where I have scrubbed with a 175 and wanded with a hi flow Ti wand in the past) have said the carpets have never looked better. There is no "streaking". A lady (who I have cleaned for several times in the past) sent me a note in the mail yesterday and I quote: "Just a note to tell you what a good job you did on cleaning our carpet. Call you next year. Happy Customer. Thelma and Sidney Nutlicker."

 

[Mike Draper]

You have lost all credibility with me now. You have never had a carpet streak with the rV?, then you havent paid enough attention. Obviously there is a reason RV is making a new cleaning head design. I know youve been in the business longer than me, but my first thousand hours was with the first rV-360 and that a hell of a lot of carpets with a 360. I know better now what types of carpet to use it on and what not to. That pic was the original 360. I do agree with you though. the Rotovac will out clean them all and I would not be without one. I use it almost everyday.

 

[Art Kelley]

You have lost all credibility with me now. You have never had a carpet streak with the rV?, then you havent paid enough attention. Obviously there is a reason RV is making a new cleaning head design. I know youve been in the business longer than me, but my first thousand hours was with the first rV-360 and that a hell of a lot of carpets with a 360. I know better now what types of carpet to use it on and what not to. That pic was the original 360. I do agree with you though. the Rotovac will out clean them all and I would not be without one. I use it almost everyday.

Yes, no streaking. I've cleaned heavy soil, no soil, and everything in between with the 360i for the last 3 months with perfect results. If I left a carpet looking like you did there I would seriously question what the hell I was doing.

 

[Mike Draper]

Oh, you've only owned the rv for 3 months. That's your problem. Also, It didnt happen on every job, only a handful of times. Again, there is a reason rv is making a new head.

 

[Art Kelley]

Oh, you've only owned the rv for 3 months. That's your problem. Also, It didnt happen on every job, only a handful of times. Again, there is a reason rv is making a new head.

You'd think I would see see such a glaring problem after 300 jobs, but, alas, I have not. Maybe I'm a blind dildo and all my customers are idiots. That's it :idea:

 

[Magic One]

I becha John Labarbera would have helped on this problem if he built it.

 

[Jim Martin]

a lot of people have seen the 360i streak.....and a lot have not...I know that once I started pounding it on thicker higher pile carpets that I started noticing the problem....once it is brought to your attention...then you start noticing it popping up more and more....You don't have to take my word for it...if you want to spend 2k and find out for your self that is up to you....RV knows there is a problem and how far they will take it to correct it and.....how they will handle the people out there who already has one is up to them....

I am not afraid to admit I really screwed up and pretty much wasted 2k ....hopefully 2 things will happen..RV will take care of the people who are having the problems with this design flaw and no one else will throw away 2k like I did......

 

[Art Kelley]

But really Jim. What are you talking about when you say streaking? Is it like in the picture that Draper showed? I've never seen anything like that. Is it in the swirls that all rotarys make? I don't call them streaks. I always wand out after using a rotary to remove swirls and get corners and up close to thresholds that any rotary will damage.

 

[Jim Martin]

not as bad as Mikes but never the less it is pretty apparent that the machine has a design flaw and is not flushing out the carpets like it needs to....I have ran rotaries long enough to know the difference between "swirl marks" and streaking....If I wanted to take the time and correct the streaking with a wand...I might as well just wand clean it.....

swirls brush out...streaking does not and has to be re-cleaned.....

 

[Art Kelley]

I use the wand in lieu of the grooming brush because I can finish areas that a rotary doesn't hit and I mostly dry vac very quickly the broad open areas, and even then I only have to hit a few areas, as most of it looks fine. It only takes a few minutes to finish a whole house with the wand after using the 360i.

 

[Jim Martin]

I know what you mean....I always had cut in and do a dry stroke with the RX....with the 360i you don't have as much to cut in because it gets into places that the RX won't and I did not have to do any dry strokes in the middle because of its recovery....even the 700 will get into a lot of places that the Rx would not and I don't have to dry stroke where I used it......but it is the nature of the beast when you rotary clean..you will have to do some cutting in...

I am really glad that it is working out for you..I really wish that it would of for me..I can see a lot of positive about this little machine...but..never the less it is what it is...

 

[floorguy]

the question is.....

is the new head gonna be on new machines sold?????



and we all know a dildo has no "eye" so no need to say "blind dildo"

 

[adamh]

If I run the machine side to side like in Mikes pictures you may get streaks. I make figure 8s and never have an issue. If you do side to side you need to overlap by 70%. I am sure the way you clean with it makes all the diff.

The only time I saw streaks was when I cleaned too fast. I recleaned the area and bam it was gone. The RV is NOT for fast cleaners.

It is a back saver but slow. I never clean an empty with it, too slow. I always pull out the RX for those. It complete junk on commercial carpet.

 

[Art Kelley]

If I run the machine side to side like in Mikes pictures you may get streaks. I make figure 8s and never have an issue. If you do side to side you need to overlap by 70%. I am sure the way you clean with it makes all the diff.

The only time I saw streaks was when I cleaned too fast. I recleaned the area and bam it was gone. The RV is NOT for fast cleaners.

It is a back saver but slow. I never clean an empty with it, too slow. I always pull out the RX for those. It complete junk on commercial carpet.

Wrong. I run my 360i side to side or backward or forward. No streaks. Obviously you have to overlap somewhere whether it's 10% or 90% or you will get a streak. .(That just means you missed an area. Duh.) I do 50% overlaps with no dry stroke.
You can clean as fast as the machine will move ,which is real fast at the 10 setting. Remember, I am dry-wanding afterword to remove swirls.
Works perfect on commercial carpet, kicks ass on berber.

 

[Jim Martin]

I tried may patterns and told a lot of guys to use the figure 8 pattern because I thought for sure it was the key....But I found out the pattern was not the problem....

 

[John LaBarbera]

I becha John Labarbera would have helped on this problem if he built it.

Thank you, that's the nices thing you've ever said about me.

 

[Mike Draper]

If I run the machine side to side like in Mikes pictures you may get streaks. I make figure 8s and never have an issue. If you do side to side you need to overlap by 70%. I am sure the way you clean with it makes all the diff.

The only time I saw streaks was when I cleaned too fast. I recleaned the area and bam it was gone. The RV is NOT for fast cleaners.

It is a back saver but slow. I never clean an empty with it, too slow. I always pull out the RX for those. It complete junk on commercial carpet.

Wrong. I run my 360i side to side or backward or forward. No streaks. Obviously you have to overlap somewhere whether it's 10% or 90% or you will get a streak. .(That just means you missed an area. Duh.) I do 50% overlaps with no dry stroke.
You can clean as fast as the machine will move ,which is real fast at the 10 setting. Remember, I am dry-wanding afterword to remove swirls.
Works perfect on commercial carpet, kicks ass on berber.

Art, seriously you should call rotovac and tell then they are idiots for making a new head. Obviously its not needed.