45 blower handle 16 inch wand??

[BradFenstermaker]

Want to get 16 inch PMF 703 1.5 tube. Will run .06-.09 flow.

TM is TNT 18hp/45 Tuthill, will it be that different from my 12 inch in water recovery??
Glided of course with dry passes.

 

[Larry Cobb]

Brad;

The #45 Blower will handle a 16" wand, but the 1.5" tube will limit the airflow.

A 14" wand with 2" tube will have better extraction performance where it meets the carpet.

18 HP is not enough IMO for maximum lift.

We use 22 HP engine minimum for the #4MR blower.

Larry

 

[BradFenstermaker]

Only 1 opinion on this??

Thanks for your time Larry

 

[Dolly Llama]

Only 1 opinion on this??

y

ran a 16" drag wand for years with no problems, Brad
45 will handle 16" wand just fine

3200 rpm/14hg

let'er rip Pa'dner


..L.T.A.

 

[GeneMiller]

I wouldn't buy a 1.5" tool but if your lead is that small I guess it doesn't matter. Yes 16" will work fine. The carpet still blocks most of the air flow anyway. Buy a wand with the jets angled properly.

Gene

 

[BradFenstermaker]

Thanks Cap and Gene.
Shoulder pain regressed me back to 1.5. I know I am a Big Puss!

I figured ounce wand lips locked it shouldn't matter, but wanted more experience involved.

 

[Captain America]

Want to get 16 inch PMF 703 1.5 tube. Will run .06-.09 flow.

TM is TNT 18hp/45 Tuthill, will it be that different from my 12 inch in water recovery??
Glided of course with dry passes.

I have 2 45 blowers with A 30 hp kholer and a 33hp generac....
Those 45 blowers won't max out. Until you get at least a 30..33hp engine...

You can get a 35 hp generac online for about 2000$...it increased my dry time by1/2 over the 25 hp I replaced...the bigger the better..
Also you might check the zipper or an rx 20. over the 16" wand
Cap

 

[Dolly Llama]

I have 2 45 blowers with A 30 hp kholer and a 33hp generac....
Those 45 blowers won't max out. Until you get at least a 30..33hp engine...

that's not true, Bro
20hp will run a 45 @3200 rpm pulling 14hg all day long

..L.T.A.

 

[Becker]

I ran a 45 with a 20hp then a 21 hp for years. I went 2" years ago and would never go back no matter the width if head.


We've got no room for boring.

 

[Captain America]

that's not true, Bro
20hp will run a 45 @3200 rpm pulling 14hg all day long

..L.T.A.

I don't know about all the specs.......but that has just been my experience...
I ran 25 hp kholer a for 10 years...most of the manufacturers told Me not to go higher and it wouldn't make any difference...I think one told me to increase my engine size...
I went to a 30 hp kholer my dry time increased by 30.40 percent...
Then went to the 33. Hp generac my dry time increased at least another 30 percent...
I think it has to do with torque.....the 30 hp has 44 torque...
The 33 generac has. 59 torque.....
Since I got the zipper dry time increased at least 50 percent on all jobs. Home and commercial..no dry strokes..
Cap

 

[Shane T]

The blower doesn't know what size engine is turning it. Unless the engine isn't running right or belts are slipping it doesn't matter if it's a 20hp or 33hp, the blower will have the same performance as long as the blower speed remains the same.

 

[Blue Monarch]

that's not true, Bro
20hp will run a 45 @3200 rpm pulling 14hg all day long

..L.T.A.

Good to know Larry. I've been concerned that the 20HP on the TNT wasn't quite enough. I'll put that thought behind me. Now I just need to pull the trigger!

 

[Jimmy L]

DECREASED dry times

 

[Blue Monarch]

Pound sand Lawig!

love

 

[Lee Stockwell]

DECREASED dry times

My thoughts too. Funny when most rave about changes that INCREASE drying time...

 

[BradFenstermaker]

Wider wand means longer dry times??

 

[Captain America]

I know there is a lot of opinions on this among manufacturers...
Im not saying anyone should spend 2000$ to replace their 20hp..
But if you have to replace an engine..vacuum is everything in this bus....the engine is the backbone of the truckmount.
Might as well get the larger hp...
facts: 20..25hp kholer cost 1600..1850$
30hp kholer maybe 2100$
33-35hp generac 2000-2200$
So if you have to replace it will only cost 200-300$ more
and you have the option of later replacing the 45 with a 47 blower.
We spend 10K for these truckmounts 200$ is a small expense to bump up the engine if it needs replacing

cap

 

[Captain America]

Wider wand means longer dry times??

Not really it depends.....
If you want really good ddry time on a wide wand you gotta get the TI. or the zipper....
Dry time also has a lot to do with water flow...06 is about half of 012 water flow....

 

[Shane T]

Larger engine will likely increase fuel consumption. The only reason I can see to use a larger engine than necessary is that the larger engine may not have to work as hard and thus you may have longer engine life. "Maybe"

 

[Captain America]

Larger engine will likely increase fuel consumption. The only reason I can see to use a larger engine than necessary is that the larger engine may not have to work as hard and thus you may have longer engine life. "Maybe"

Talk to Donald at steambrite
He seems to have facts and stats on these engines and blowers...he is the one who convinced me to get a larger engine for my 45 blower...
The other manufacturers that told me not to had never used a larger engine than a 25 hp...so they couldn't really Speak from experience..but they did tell me to call the manufacturer of the blower........
...I called tuthill and they told me the same thing as steakbrite...they focus on torque...
Also the best way is to demo someone's truckmount with a larger engine...
Larger engine has more torque
It is the same for lawn mowers...cars etc....
I am no expert but these guys are..that's just what they told me to do and ifollowed there advice....
But if you are satisfied with your truckmount that's no prob.....
Happy cleaning
Cap

 

[Dolly Llama]

Wider wand means longer dry times??

The biggest problem with wider wands are on uneven floors

wand design has much to do with airflow/water recovery more than blower size (assuming the blower is capable of making enough CFM )...which a 45 is

you can only pull so much CFM thru the vac slot opening (generally the limiting CFM factor on any wand) at a given HG
You can only pull appx 200 CFM thru any wand slot @14hg.
if I'm not mistaken, a 45 can make 300 cfm

a 45 is the "ideal" single wand TM blower ..UNLESS you're running at lower RPM to reduce noise , then the larger blower's virtues start to shine
(And obviously dual wanding)



..L.T.A.

 

[Dolly Llama]

Talk to Donald at steambrite
He seems to have facts and stats on these engines and blowers.

I love to see those "facts" in print somewhere , Marc
cause the only "fact" I'm aware of, is that any motor that has enough torque to keep a blower spinning at a constant RPM while under load will produce the same CFM....regardless whether an 18HP or 80hp



You know the biggest reason many manufactures use larger than needed engines?
to supply more heat for the heat exchangers


..L.T.A.

 

[Captain America]

Don't really understand exactly the design of the zipper and how it works as it has 26" total of wand on the floor...
So I was scepticle of purchasing it.....
Every job I have been on so far has doubled my dry time.same jobs as before the zipper..incredible..it has ecceaded my expectations..
Ordered the 13" with 010 flow..increased it to 012 flow...and still dries twice as fast...
This is all on a 45 blower...
I have cleaned 5 resturants so far...one was absolutely filthy new account..it was a challenge that was met with the zipper..saved the arm
It is not a perfect tool as it is heavy in tight places and some homes with furniture but I am pushing the wheels down in homes and it is a lot more manuverable...still testing it but the performance is there..wands are collecting dust as they cannot Mach the performance regardless of the labor it saves
Someone with a 47 blower could do well with the 15" and probably use a 014 flow which is a lot of water..a lot of cleaning and still have incredible dry times
The cap

 

[juniorc82]

I own both a 47 blower unit pushed by a 34 hp kohler and a 45 pushed by a 23hp briggs. My 47 has been down for 2 weeks in the transmission shop so I used the 45. While the 45 running at 3400rpm did a great job I noticed today after talking the 47 back out that there is a hands down major difference when I ran the 47 when it came to performance and dry times. I own the 16 inch evolution wand that is 2'' . I think the 47gets decent results with the 16inch but imo I think the4 s a little t small and notice itstruggle on the 16 incher. Id go with a greenhorn jr a prochem quad instead

 

[BradFenstermaker]

10-4 I may have be able to get back into a used TI locally.

Thanks for the opinions everyone. I need to unload atleast 1 or 2 PMF 802 first.

I always carry a back up wand so repairs aren't in the field. But don't need 5 Wanda,s with 1 truck. LOL

 

[Captain America]

Specs on engines and blowers
Engine Torque peaks at 2500 rpms drops down at least 3.,4 pts at 3500 rpms
47 blower at 2500 rpms is 300 cfm at 3500 rpms jumps to 500 cfm
45 blower at 2500 rpms is 250 cfm at 3500 rpms max out at 400 cfm
20 hp. Torqu at 2500 rpm is 32. At 3500. Rpm it is. 29
25 hp. Torque at 2500 rpm is 39 at 3500 rpm is 36
30 hp max torqu is 45
35 hp,max torque 55...kholer
33 hp generac is 59
35 hp generac max torque. Is 62
All torqu curves and vac curves are on kholer web site and tuthill website

The cap

 

[Captain America]

I own both a 47 blower unit pushed by a 34 hp kohler and a 45 pushed by a 23hp briggs. My 47 has been down for 2 weeks in the transmission shop so I used the 45. While the 45 running at 3400rpm did a great job I noticed today after talking the 47 back out that there is a hands down major difference when I ran the 47 when it came to performance and dry times. I own the 16 inch evolution wand that is 2'' . I think the 47gets decent results with the 16inch but imo I think the4 s a little t small and notice itstruggle on the 16 incher. Id go with a greenhorn jr a prochem quad instead

That 47 blower will increase cfm from 400 for a 45 blower to 500 cfm for a 47 blower...
The price of the 45 and 47 is about the same 1700$?
That will be my next purchase
Capq

 

[dgardner]

Specs on engines and blowers
.....
25 hp. Torque at 2500 rpm is 39
.....

I just picked one as an example.

What Larry is trying to tell you is this: For the above example torque at 2500 rpm is ZERO - unless the engine is driving a load (like a blower). If you run the engine at a constant speed, the torque is whatever the load requires to turn it - its the LOAD that determines how hard the engine has to push to make it turn.

So - lets say I hook a blower to your 25hp engine and run it at 2500 rpm, and measure that the blower requires 30 lb/ft of torque to turn it (just making that number up).

Now - I unhook the 25hp and hook up a 10,000hp engine, fire that puppy up, and run it up to 2500 rpm. Guess what the torque will be? The same 30 lb/ft, because that's what the blower requires to make it turn.

So - unless you change the blower speed with different sheaves (pulleys), or run the new engine at a higher rpm, making the engine bigger won't affect the airflow/"cleaning power" one tiny bit.

 

[Captain America]

so you are saying the pully restricts the rpms??
are these truckmounts limited to 2500 rpms if so they are not maxing out the blowers
I use belt driven namco's
i understand what everyone is saying in theory but my vacuum has increased with the same 45 blower
same machine and I still get better vaccuum with the 33hp generac over the 30 hp kholer...
and much better than i did with the 25hp kholers
cap

 

[dgardner]

so you are saying the pully restricts the rpms??

Not really. The two pulley sizes determine whether the blower turns slower, faster, or at the same speed as the engine output shaft.

If the engine and the blower pulleys are exactly the same pitch diameter, the blower will turn the same rpm as the engine.

if the you increase the engine pulley diameter (or decrease the blower pulley dia - same difference) then the blower will turn faster than the engine rpm, like shifting your car to a higher gear.

You can figure the new rpm if you know the two pitch diameters - say the engine pulley is 7 inch and the blower pulley is 5 inch.

7 / 5 = 1.4

So if the engine turns at 2500 rpm the blower will be spinning at 3500 rpm (2500 X 1.4) with that particular pulley ratio.