570 vs pro 1200

[Mike Pailliotet]

Marty, you haven't seen a 1200 up close have you..



It's as easily serviceable as a Butler imo.



I think all 4 PTO choices are fine units. Pick the color you like best.

 

[Mike Pailliotet]

My GLC had fuel tank and pump issues


Not enough room. Butler in a box is what I'd suggest if you chose grey.

 

[hogjowl]

Marty, you haven't seen a 1200 up close have you..



It's as easily serviceable as a Butler imo.



I think all 4 PTO choices are fine units. Pick the color you like best.

Very few people HAVE seen one up close. I'm reading, probably here, that their layout is not as space saving as the 4.8.

 

[Russ T.]

Very few people HAVE seen one up close. I'm reading, probably here, that their layout is not as space saving as the 4.8.

That's true Marty. Get the Cleanco.

 

[hogjowl]

Marty,
As big a fan as you are of TCS, and as much as you like their service/support, pick one of the 2 direct drives you mentioned.

You would be happy with either and you'd rest easy knowing that TCS will handle it for you.

They are good. I WANT to give them my business. I am just not completely sold on the Cleanco. I mean ... Jimmy bought one. That right there tells you something has to be wrong with it.

I wish TCS was Hydramaster dealer.

 

[Wandslinger]

Well I must say, I wasn't a big fan when Saphire came out. I thought their design was less than desirable and rattled like hell. I thought they weren't going to make it especially since they looked like they were going after Prochem who ruled the space for quite some time. Heck I'm not even a big fan of the baby blue color. All that being said, since purchasing the unit based on Jim Martin's recommendation, Rick Aranda's customer service and having a local distributor, I am more than pleased. Granted I only have a little more than 60 hours on it but it runs like a tank. I came from a Powermatic and was scared that the heat would not be comparable but it as hot or hotter than my Steamway. My 570 is a solid design and I expect it to out last my part time cleaning career. The two year warranty from Saphire is icing on the cake .

 

[Mike Pailliotet]

http://youtu.be/ZTFLwgSJ4g0

 

[Mike Pailliotet]

http://youtu.be/n_aQvSLJbeU

 

[hogjowl]

Well I must say, I wasn't a big fan when Saphire came out. I thought their design was less than desirable and rattled like hell. I thought they weren't going to make it especially since they looked like they were going after Prochem who ruled the space for quite some time. Heck I'm not even a big fan of the baby blue color. All that being said, since purchasing the unit based on Jim Martin's recommendation, Rick Aranda's customer service and having a local distributor, I am more than pleased. Granted I only have a little more than 60 hours on it but it runs like a tank. I came from a Powermatic and was scared that the heat would not be comparable but it as hot or hotter than my Steamway. My 570 is a solid design and I expect it to out last my part time cleaning career. The two year warranty from Saphire is icing on the cake .

That's great. I am glad you like it. Of course, like you stated, 60 hours is sort of early to really know. I suspect if you have trouble with it that your distributor will be reliable and fix it as fast as can be expected. That's the rub. TCS is a dist. of Sapphire and I spoke with them about it. Their only negative comment regarding it was that it is not easy to work on. They know I don't try to work on my rigs myself, and they know I am used to same day service from them ... no matter how huge the repair is. They just wanted me to be aware that they can't be that fast with a Sapphire rig.

Besides, I don't want another slide in.

 

[Jimmy L]

Marty go check out the cleanco 47. You'll like the layout. Straight shaft with no kinks like the hydramaster.
The only real problem I've had was the surpentine belt. Fixed that by running a greenline heavy duty belt.

The really only components are the roots blower and a cat pump.

Both easy access and available. No properitary hydramaster or butler parts.

 

[JS41035]

Very few people HAVE seen one up close. I'm reading, probably here, that their layout is not as space saving as the 4.8.

Everybody that went to MF got to climb all over one. You can download a PDF.
As far as reliability goes. I know modernistic runs a bunch of them. I've seen a bunch for sale in New England. Some within 45 minutes of the Butler home office.
The pro1200 is (IMO ) the easiest of all the CDS units to access. The cover comes off easy. And the larger shroud makes it easy to service.
The pro 1200 comes with a 56. And high heat. It doesn't start with a 45 then make you pay for each little option that by now you would expect to be standard. (A 47 and blower HX). I know cleanco offers a 56. But The pro 1200 definitely has all the bugs worked out with the 56 it runs.
I like the pro1200. My only complaint. (And I know it's petty) is that it doesn't look as innovative as Sapphires other stuff. The foot print of the slidein TMs are amazing. Lots of cool new features.
The need for a transfer pump doesn't go with the "buy it, give it to the employees and go to work" mentality. At least not to me. Plus I think they at least need to mount it in a less visible place. Especially on the demo truck when it is parked next to a spit-shined butler.
Marty I honestly think that of all the CDS units you are considering the 1200 would be best for you. It is very easy for mechanics to work on. There is no rocket science involved. You could have TCS service it. And you have very easy access to service ports etc.
The CDS looks great. But it would be harder to work on. The Butler is sprawled out but easy to work on . The CDS is compact but a bit harder to access thing to service.
The pro1200 falls in the middle.
All of the direct drive units have people that run them for 1000s of hours trouble free. I think Butler has the least amount of trouble because every unit is installed exactly the same way by people that do only that, every single day.
So make sure your confident in the installer. Have TCS call modernistic and ask for some tips. TCS build machines. I have no doubt they could do a fantastic install of a pro 1200.
As a side note. Marty is a picky dude. But picky cranky customers have turned in to some of our biggest cheerleaders. Please a picky person and they could become a fantastic reference.
It's good to blow off some steam.
It's also good to edit the next day.

I

 

[ruff]

This is marty:

I've had my ear to the ground for some time on the Pro1200 train track.It's way too quiet for comfort.

I find it unfair that Marty makes negative comments about a unit you haven't even personally seen or touched. If you haven't tried the unit, do us a favor and be quiet. It is people livelihood that you're commenting on. If you tried it and have legitimate feedback, that's great and of value.
The 'train rack' you're referring to I assume was "KnoxClean", which has long been resolved.

That's why I said ignore Marty. Negatively commenting about a unit you do not have the slightest experience with is both unethical and unfair.

It seems like Marty is not really interested in a reply. Here's one:

Ignore Marty.
I just got a new Pro 1200. Good machine. As previous posters said, you cannot compare Pro 1200 to the 570. You can compare it to a CDS or a Butler.

It produces plenty of heat and suction.Given I am not a fire breather fan. Psi control is a work in progress as unlike the CDS it does not have a water box, so it will not go lower than about 275 psi. Also controlling the dwire (solution) meter is hard when machine is in medium (it has low,medium,& hi). I can and do work with all doors locked (hole in side door step (not in door.)

Design is not super space saver as in the CDS, however once I got it figured out and put everything in it's right place, I pretty much got almost as much space as the CDS (my other van). Plenty of storage room in a non extended Chevy. I do have the L recovery tank + electric hose reel. No solution reel or water pond.

Hope this helps.

And surely he read Art's comments and others.

Bill's answer was Brutal yet refreshingly honest. Not sure if it will win SS any clients but it looks like he definitely had previous experience with Marty, therefore totally understood.

Be honest guys, how many times have you wanted to say exactly that to a client but wouldn't? Wouldn't that be a treat?
Knock yourself out Bill.

P.S. It will be nice if SS was more responsive on the board re: feedback, complaints etc. They used to be and are absent these days, in that regard Marty is right. Their response absence makes them pretty similar ProChem and Butler, who do not participate much if at all. HyrdraMaster certainly does and so are others. Personally I think that if they do, it will be to their benefit and people here will appreciate it. I assume it is a business decision on their part.

As per the concerns that I raised, Ray, has been super in trying to solve and figure it out. SS could have done a better job addressing it or letting people know in advance about it. My guess is that the pro-1200 is still a relatively new unit to SS and they're still in the process of ironing some of the kinks out.

 

[knoxclean]

 

[BradFenstermaker]

Wonder if SS can move that solution reel over toward the machine more. I like all the stuff at the side door. With that slider door it looks like the hose and me would be all kinked up trying to roll up.

 

[Joe Appleby]

Dear Anti-Semitic Pig Farmer from the great State of Alabama,

I bought my 1st 1200 last year. It runs like a top with very high heat and vacuum. My techs love it. We also run 8 CDS machines and a Cleanco. Each machine has its idiosyncrasies. You have to find what's best for you. I find the Sapphire company to be very responsive and supportive which weighed heavily on my decision. Bill's knock-off Harleydid not sour me one bit.

I don't think you'll find anyone more anal retentive than Ofer. If it's good enough for him, it's good enough for you.

 

[Art Kelley]

I was chuckling to myself today thinking of this post Bill, while I was at an obnoxious and insulting customer's house. I know Marty comes of as belligerent and obnoxious and intentionally ignorant, but you and I know that TCS could build him the perfect Pro1200 that would be problem free for years and years that he would be happy with. It's sometimes best to just let go of our pride and do what we do best and let the cards fall where they will. The insulting customer became my cheerleader.

Marty
Since it seems you want to hear from us on this subject, even though you don't trust us. Here you go.,,,.,,
Please do us all a favor and choose one of our competitors products. I can't see you ever being satisfied.

As for why you don't hear from a ton of Sapphire TM owners it's because they are out enjoying the profits generated by their Sapphire truckmounts, Dri-Eaz water damage equipment, as well as Unsmoke, Microban and Chemspec chemicals.

Oh and as a final comment Legend Brands have been in the industry for over 34 years and unlike our competitors are run by folks with real world experience

Enjoy the rest of your summer

 

[Desk Jockey]

Marty would look awful as a cheerleader. He doesn't have the legs for it!

Besides what would he bitch about then?

 

[hogjowl]

The day that free and open discussion is suppressed here is the day this board becomes no better than the others that have died from lack of participation.

And when Ofer and Art can prove that they have never said anything negative about a tool, chemical or mfg. is the day I'll start listening to their Foster tantrums.

 

[SamIam]

If you have employees working without you I would go with the pro 1200 or a butler. Just you the 570.

I see what your saying alone the 570 chimps 1200, but either way get a helper let them vacuum while you setup pre spray while you scrub, pull hose while you clean, and lastly pack up while you get paid. increase production get off the wand half the time make more money! I see your point its more dummy proof using a PTO, but either machine is usable if trained right.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Desk Jockey]

The day that free and open discussion is suppressed here is the day this board becomes no better than the others that have died from lack of participation.

And when Ofer and Art can prove that they have never said anything negative about a tool, chemical or mfg. is the day I'll start listening to their Foster tantrums.

Wow Pigsnot that was really profound.


But I don't really give a rats, so chudd up!

 

[SamIam]

I'm wanting to get away from slide ins due to the heat. A Sapphire slide in may cut down some on the heat, since it won't have a #4 propane heater in the back, but I'll still have the lawnmower engine heat. Plus, with the Sapphire slide in, just like the Prochem units, you have everything crammed into a small space. Having a problem and driving the TCS and having them fix it in a day would be out. Heck, it'd take that long to get into the thing and find out the problem, much less repair it.

The only reason I am slightly hesitant to purchase the direct drives that TCS sells is because:

Cleanco is out of Canada. How long would it take to get repair parts to Atlanta?

Sapphire (Pro 1200) is a great unknown ... as described above.

If I wanted another slide in, there is no question that I would simply go up to TCS and purchase one.

I may still end up there anyway.

But, Jon-Don is right around the corner with the 4.8, and all that lovely space and proven track record.

And ... Butler wants my business and they're used to long distance pita customers.

What's a drama queen to do?

I used Tom Meyers new 570 and it was sitting 220 ATW on my 12 flow PC ti wand, my 405 is lucky to hit 195. Thats at the wand not the machine. I believe the 570 has 470 cfm thats a lot of vacuum, the P1200 has more vacuum not sure about heat.

If you want crazy heat your use to go with 570 I don't think a PTO will give you 220 ATW maybe 240 ATM 190 atw but I haven't tested it the 1200 to see what it can do.

Huge space savings too!


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[SamIam]

Lastly Marty, Bill B.'s using reverse psychology on you bro! He really wants you to get one.

The www.Sapphirescientific.com website say's the 1200 will go up to 14 inches of lift with 400 cfm, and the 570 will do 16 inches of lift with 455 cfm.

I wonder if one is with the wand on the carpet and one off? why the bigger blower wont do more???? than the smaller blower. 570 win's the stat war.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Desk Jockey]

Ummmmmm no!

I believe he hopes Marty doesn't.

 

[SamIam]

^SHHHHHH!


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[Mike Pailliotet]

you look like your pops there Sam

 

[Lee Stockwell]

you look like your pops there Sam

My boys HATE to hear that...

 

[Able 1]

Lastly Marty, Bill B.'s using reverse psychology on you bro! He really wants you to get one.

The www.Sapphirescientific.com website say's the 1200 will go up to 14 inches of lift with 400 cfm, and the 570 will do 16 inches of lift with 455 cfm.

I wonder if one is with the wand on the carpet and one off? why the bigger blower wont do more???? than the smaller blower. 570 win's the stat war.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Probably because it isn't spinning as fast.. Slide in's will out preform DD units hand down(except an AT or Vortec).. At the same time if you can't wrench you might be better off with a DD unit.. Not like I work on my stuff all the time, I just know how to keep them going. If you take your TM in more then once every year, you need a DD IMO..

 

[SamIam]

you look like your pops there Sam

Ya my ears and nose keep growing!


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[ruff]

I don't think you'll find anyone more anal retentive than Ofer. If it's good enough for him, it's good enough for you.

Hey there, humus boy!

And when Ofer and Art can prove that they have never said anything negative about a tool, chemical or mfg. is the day I'll start listening to their Foster tantrums.

Can't speak for Art, but I've never said a negative comment about a tool I did not own and used extensively.
Dhoooooofooooooooos!

Sorry, I meant ignert dhooofoooos.

If you find just one instance, please show it here and I will publicly (on this very board) apologize to that manufacturer. Unlike you that does it practically on a daily basis and never apologizes.

 

[hogjowl]

You speak for me?

Why not Art?