adding ducts

Beeks · Jun 3, 2013

Recently purchased duct cleaning equipment attachable to the truck mount for a moderate business expansion. After doing some intense research on what it takes to clean and market i have decided to add some additional marketing to my already vast marketed carpet cleaning buis. An avenue that i do not use for carpet cleaning, that i will attempt for duct cleaning is groupon/LS. I am doing this initially to get my feet wet in the buis and to learn some ins and outs. Have talked to a few guys that have this add on already, and they say it is a great add on service to have, some are kicking themselves for not adding it sooner. The reason i am going to use groupon/living social besides to get my foot in the door is because of the no real overhead and the potential for mega up sales opportunity.

Has anyone else done research on this avenue or already have duct cleaning as an addition to there CC company?

How has it worked for you?

Any recommendations?

Mikey P · Jun 3, 2013

Look into becoming NADCA certified for this line of work.
Without proper training you can get into a heap of trouble

Mikey P · Jun 3, 2013

And from what I've gathered, a professional job well done on a 3 bed room home can take for hours or more so don't be giving it away on Groupon

SamIam · Jun 3, 2013

Ya I bought the tool too from steamco, Put it in an ad and only had a few interested,

$900 part just sitting there, I know guys who are good at doing it and make money.

My issue is theres a ton of new builds where I'm at and all the registers are caulked and painted to the walls, even if You take out the 2 to 4 screws You'll need a razor blade to get it off.

My problem would be its not going to look the same going back on and will customers complain about it? and if I punch a whole in ducting do I want to figure out how to fix it.

I'm probably over thinking it, but If I did get into it I would probably go to Vegas to Air-care and take their class.

http://www.air-care.com/

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BLewis · Jun 3, 2013

I to would not even consider groupon. Repeats will probably be years in between. Personally I can't stand the thought of groupon.

I to will be adding dC within the next year however I will just market to my existing customers. My understanding is that an average house will take 4-6 hours to do it correctly.

Consider just discounting to help land customers but I wouldn't even consider giving groupon half. Also, I do believe it would be more thrown at you than you could probably ky handle bei g new to it.

Desk Jockey · Jun 3, 2013

The Environmental Protection Agency says that “duct cleaning services typically – but not always – range in cost from $450 to $1000 per heating and cooling system, depending on the services offered, the size of the system to be cleaned, system accessibility, climactic region, and level of contamination” and type of duct material.

Consumers should beware of air duct cleaning companies that making sweeping claims about the health benefits of duct cleaning – such claims are unsubstantiated. Consumers should also beware of “blow-and-go” air duct cleaning companies. These companies often charge a nominal fee and do a poor job of cleaning the heating and cooling system. These companies may also persuade the consumer into unneeded services with and/or without their permission.

(If you have knowledge of a practicing “blow-and-go” air duct cleaner, contact your local Better Business Bureau to report the company, and your local, federal, and state elected officials to demand legislation.)
The amount of time it takes to clean a residential HVAC system depends on many variables such as the size of the home, the number of systems, the extent of the contamination and the number of HVAC cleaners performing the job. Ask at least two contractors to inspect your system and give you a time estimate for your particular system. This will give you a general idea of how long the job should take as well as an idea of how thoroughly the contractor plans to do the job.

http://www.nadca.com/sites/default/files/userfiles/Residential Checklist (2).pdf
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Shane Deubell · Jun 3, 2013

Definitely would never do a groupon for this service, most people only buy once in a great while 5-10 years if ever. Reconsider your source....

I would pm richard, he gave me the low down on duct cleaning.

Also agree with mikey about nadca cert before you go messing around with a ventilation system.

rhino1 · Jun 3, 2013

We have been doing ADC for several years now. Vacuuming out a vent line with a POS like you got is NOT duct cleaning. You can make money with it, no doubt. Some people are doing the same thing with a shop vac and a toilet brush. You will not be able to truly clean an HVAC system without a negative air system and an air compressor. The deal with some of the groupons goes as follows : your system is different than/dirtier than/bigger than what the groupon covers. If you care about your kids/wife/dog/ you need to pay us an additional amount. We also found mold in your system and if you do not want to die you need to pay us to remove it. If you do not pay us, we will need to inform local health authorities who will condemn your home.

Desk Jockey · Jun 3, 2013

rhino1 · Jun 3, 2013

Mikey P said:
And from what I've gathered, a professional job well done on a 3 bed room home can take for hours or more so don't be giving it away on Groupon

2 motivated men can do a simple one story home in 2.5 hours if the vents are on the floor and they know what they are doing. That is 10 to 12 supply vents, 1 or 2 return vents, supply and return mains, and air wash the A coil and blower. The same air duct cleaning job can take 4 to 5 hours under different circumstances.

Desk Jockey · Jun 3, 2013

For us most average in the 4-5 hour range, two systems add a couple hours more.

That includes cutting an access hole in the plenum to attach our collector collar, removing and cleaning the blower and cleaning all openings both fresh and supply. Per NADCA standards for the "Source Removal" method.

2-man crew averages $100.00 an hour, it's not killer. You can make more cleaning carpet but it is a service in demand. We don't promote it enough, I think if we did we could keep a truck busy just cleaning air ducts.

Jason del Norte · Jun 3, 2013

I performed air duct cleaning for a few years, 10 years ago, and have already gotten out of it. Like Doc says, your hourly gets to be less than carpet cleaning. As much as I still enjoy carpet cleaning I never once enjoyed a job air duct cleaning. Just clean more carpets!

rhino1 · Jun 3, 2013

Not only that but that dirt and dust ends up down your back, in your face and hair, and clogs up your sinuses big time - not the most fun job in the world. Here a lot of mains are located in crawlspaces and attics, which adds another fun adventure = battling bugs, spiders, and snakes in confined spaces.

Shane Deubell · Jun 4, 2013

You live in Orlando for God's sake, just add a tile spinner ...

Whole lot more profitable then going into a completely different market.

Jason del Norte · Jun 4, 2013

Yeah right he won't have basements or heating systems.

I once went out on a service call in Ft. Worth (late 90s) with the Video air duct cleaning crew.

Does anybody remember Video Air Duct Cleaning?

It was a brush with a camera on it, and a screen on the machine to observe the poor job that the machine does. It was designed for the smaller ducts down south--I was trying to use them in the bigger ones we have up north. You end up like a chimney sweep getting your hands cut up reaching into all that metal.

SamIam · Jun 4, 2013

Shane Deubell said:
You live in Orlando for God's sake, just add a tile spinner ...

Whole lot more profitable then going into a completely different market.

I got both at the same time the spinners on the truck the $900 air duct part ain't.

My wife reminds about that all the time.

anybody want a cheap air duct add in?? LOL
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Beeks · Jun 4, 2013

Shane Deubell said:
You live in Orlando for God's sake, just add a tile spinner ...

Whole lot more profitable then going into a completely different market.

We do tile and upholstery already, i want it ALL....i want to add a variety of services still, REAL rug cleaning, Ducts, Whole shower cleanings, you name it, i want to master everything early so in 5 years or so i can have a few trucks going and me NOT going, ill love the business, but i would rather work ON it then IN it!

Buck1955 · Jun 4, 2013

Not much more to add but if your going to do a new venture do it right or dont do it at all. Buy a duct cleaning system, dont add it to your truckmount. That may be OK for dryer vent cleaning though.

Shane Deubell · Jun 4, 2013

Beeks said:
We do tile and upholstery already, i want it ALL....i want to add a variety of services still, REAL rug cleaning, Ducts, Whole shower cleanings, you name it, i want to master everything early so in 5 years or so i can have a few trucks going and me NOT going, ill love the business, but i would rather work ON it then IN it!

Nearly impossible to grow that way at this stage. Do you realize you then have to train a tech on all those services? Plus market all those services?
Its a growth killer under $500k in sales and probably under $1mi.

Keep it simple, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat.

I probably could be retired with all the money i spent in my 20's looking for the next best thing, should have just bought stock in microsoft...
Took me working for a successful businesswoman {in real life not the internet} to see the inner workings of a great service business and how they do it. Lots of boring blocking/tackling and targeted risk taking.

Trying to help you man, been there have the t-shirt.

Beeks · Jun 4, 2013

Shane Deubell said:
Nearly impossible to grow that way at this stage. Do you realize you then have to train a tech on all those services? Plus market all those services?
Its a growth killer under $500k in sales and probably under $1mi.

Keep it simple, Repeat, Repeat, Repeat.

I probably could be retired with all the money i spent in my 20's looking for the next best thing, should have just bought stock in microsoft...
Took me working for a successful businesswoman {in real life not the internet} to see the inner workings of a great service business and how they do it. Lots of boring blocking/tackling and targeted risk taking.

Trying to help you man, been there have the t-shirt.

I hear what you saying but i would bet that 75% of cleaners on this board do at the very minimum CC, upholstery and tile/grout. Tile and grout leads into shower stalls, and cc leads into Rug cleaning. So this is all hand in hand when hiring techs and training techs. Air ducts a little more advanced sure but nothing a few ride alongs wouldn't teach someone.

On the marketing aspect of this situation, its same as upholstery and tile, you lead with CC and educate customer on other services, maybe drop a 100 sqft of tile cleaned free in your next eddm or mailer.

I dont know for sure, im still relativity new to the game, but adding ducts seems like a profitable add on that isnt much different then upholstery and tile.

randy · Jun 5, 2013

We clean air ducts and have for 12 years. Personally if I had to do it over again I wouldn't go near it. First off you are headed for huge problems if you think a few ride along are all that is needed to have enough of a knowledge base to properly clean airducts. Airduct cleaning is much more complicated than carpet cleaning. For example if you cut a hole into the trunk lines in some states you must be a licensed HVAC operator. If you knock the blower out of balance, you might as well buy a new one. Worst case scenario, there is mold in the system and with the crappy equipment you have ( no offense) all you will do it agitate it into the air stream and now you have spread mold spores through out the home. That can be a huge issue and requires a good video inspection system to avoid. You must get to a decent airduct cleaning class and invest in proper equipment ( if buying new expect to spend $15,000-$25,000) used you can score some great deals as airduct cleaning is down substantially the last few years. In my opinion you would be better chasing commercial carpet cleaning with a Whittaker Trio or Cimex and cleaning more tile. Learn to walk before you run. Airduct cleaning is a loser, it takes 4-5 hours with two people to do the job properly. Thanks to the groupon scammers (whole house airducts $59) it is very difficult to sell the job for the $600-$800 that you need to be profitable. Throw that airduct wiz bang you bought on Ebay and move on with your core competency.

Cleantechsk · Jun 5, 2013

some pretty fancy HD camera inspection units out there so you can check pre AND post work.
They work extremely well.
Neighbor had his place done by a fancy giant duct truck, after inspection his opinion sure changed. Doesn't matter you can still have a large truck, charge allot and do a hack job.

Totally agree though, check your local laws regarding what your allowed to cut holes in/etc
So far only about 5% of the duct lines are tight getting into around here, otherwise its a simply feed in.
Use an inspection camera on the return lines to make sure your not walking into a zoo of cables.....

Allot of people do not want to spend 600-800 on ducts for an average home size, so we can easily fill that void
For us the hoses are already in the house with the truck running

So sure doesn't take a ton of time. I just make sure to upsell it BEFORE cleaning the floor and do the duct cleaning first.

After post inspection I have no problem with my work.

Highly recommend a video inspection unit.
One example
http://www.air-care.com/video-inspection-cameras

PS. get a good pear of work gloves for when your feeding it into the lines.

Desk Jockey · Jun 5, 2013

The problem with the big suck guys is they believe that all you need is the huge suction. They skip any agitation and just use a blower to blow down each opening while their huge collector is attached to the system. I agree just because you have a big machine doesn't mean have the brains to do a good job, most of those guys don't, they cut corners relying on the big suck.

The main problem I see with smaller systems is the size of the vac collector hose. It's too small for the debris in a lot of systems, plus the CFM's are just not comparable. As far as the steps in cleaning, if you're not removing the blower for cleaning you're not addressing the source of the problem. Blowers are nasty, they need to be removed and cleaned free of all the lint, grease and caked on debris.

People always want cheaper no matter what your price is, what you have to deliver is value. If you plan on being a blow and go guy, that's hardly value at any price.

Shane Deubell · Jun 5, 2013

If you don't clean the system properly you can have blow back, this is when the fan goes back on and POOF a big cloud of dust shoots out of the vents into their whole house. Happened to one of my friends here and they have abatement equipment.

Way more involved then sucking a vent...

rhino1 · Jun 5, 2013

I have cleaned alot of ducts and blowers have never been the source of the problem. Generally blowers may have a layer of dirt - enough to fill a coffee cup in extreme cases. Something that spins as fast and as long as a blower tends to blow most airborne particles right through it.

Desk Jockey · Jun 5, 2013

Maybe I worded it wrong, I should not have said "the source".

However if you do not clean the blower you are leaving the generator of your air source contaminated. You are then over looking the cleaning of a significant part of the system. That's why the National Air Duct Cleaning Association has it in their standards as part of the source removal method.

Not even a good air washing will accomplish what removal and cleaning can do .

Shane Deubell · Jun 5, 2013

I dont think it is even a good business idea...
For a start up

If you want to build $500k a year in sales for example that is somewhere between 2500-3000 jobs a year! Think about it, that is 6000 phone calls, 10's of thousands of emails, postcards, etc, etc.
The first step is building the plumbing to handle all that information going in/out.

Not sexy to talk about plumbing, funner to talk about your usp and who's website sucks worse.

JMO

rhino1 · Jun 5, 2013

Doc Holliday said:
Maybe I worded it wrong, I should not have said "the source".

However if you do not clean the blower you are leaving the generator of your air source contaminated. You are then over looking the cleaning of a significant part of the system. That's why the National Air Duct Cleaning Association has it in their standards as part of the source removal method.

Not even a good air washing will accomplish what removal and cleaning can do .

I have only seen a few blowers that I had to completely remove to clean. I would be interested to know how you clean blowers? I typically use a light and a mirror and brush the fan blades/fins and hit it with 175 psi jet gun, than check it with a camera. Do you remove the blower and steam clean it or something? I will tell you, sometimes when I pull the covers off the air handler and see all the electronics (in newer units) between me and the blower the prospect of removing that thing is not very pleasant.
As far as NADCA goes, I was incredibly interested in getting their certs a few years ago. I talked with a rep and we got into what systems people used to clean ducts. He told me they didn't care what someone used to clean ducts, a rotovac guy could get the certs just the same as someone using the biggest Pringle truck. He went so far as to agree that a guy could use a shop vac to clean ducts and get certified. That was pretty much the end of our conversation. But I would like to know if the NADCA certs get you more jobs, or if you have taken any classes that have increased your knowledge on the actual process of duct cleaning?

Desk Jockey · Jun 5, 2013

I agree it's disappointing the politics they play, no real stance against Rotovac or toy equipment.....and why would they, those are big advertisers and supporters. :cry:

Yes several classes, most were several years back, Indoor Environment Byron Ware, a MSHI class in St Louis and an a commercial estimating an planning in Michigan. Lots of little tips really once you have the process down like you have there is only a little more you can learn.

No it's doubtful you'll get more work by merely being NADAC certified, but that doesn't mean you can't clean to their standards.

As far as what you're doing with the blower, we would consider air washing, certainly far better than nothing and a lot more than most do but not as good as if you removed the blower completely. I understand why you wouldn't want to, whenever we have a problem it's usually a missed wire not connected or worse a relay or we damage the board.

As far as what we do, we will pull it and wash it with a good degrease and clean the blades then rinse it an allow it to dry before re-installing. It's really the hardest part of the job, well it and avoiding cutting the "A" coil.

rhino1 · Jun 5, 2013

Thanks for the info. Replacing a board ($500 and up on some units) would be a huge concern to me, and I am careful as hell. The units I pull blowers on are usually pretty easy, a couple of bolts and they slide right out. I have found bread wrappers and plastic shopping bags wrapped around the insides of some of them, hard to tell how much money those things have cost the homeowner in reduced efficiency over the years.

adding ducts

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