Desk Jockey
Member
McDonalds bags and construction debris, toys, candy, beer cans, dead mice, bats, snakes and a rabbit that got stuck in the duct and liquified.
adding ducts
- Thread starter Beeks
- Start date
Cleantechsk
Member
Lovely lol
why inspection cameras are key?
I like to use the 2" hose whenever possible that's for sure.
If you haven't seen the truckmaster running here it is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s79FSucxJSI
Only thing I want to change is the dust downer that came with it...not overly impressed.
The brush motor is insanely powerful, was quite impressed first time i turned that on. I have used the rotovac in the past and find this to me much faster.
Also easier to deal with because with the aircare unit the motor is at the end of the hose, only power is going inside the hose, where as the rotobrush its a thick turning cable that's inside making it allot harder to deal with.
A friend of mine added ducts a few years ago with his steamaction. Instead of doing $800 in a morning with a few different places he will do 800 @ one location allot of times now. $400 in duct. $400 in carpet/upholstery. That is the same thing I am pushing for.
Desk Jockey
Member
Two? 
Our small is 8-inches with 6000 cfm.
The video is impressive but the opening to the collection hose is very small. I'm afraid a lot of the lint and debris we remove would clog your inlet.
Our small is 8-inches with 6000 cfm.
The video is impressive but the opening to the collection hose is very small. I'm afraid a lot of the lint and debris we remove would clog your inlet.
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Cleantechsk
Member
when its just dry dust etc..and your scrubbing it with the suction just a few inches away...how much do you truly need.
Totally get it for negative air though.
Interesting here, there used to be a bunch of the big duct trucks. Now only 2 companies left and one is up for sale. Bunch have started with the portable negative air and rotobrush systems. City size 250,000 pop
Totally get it for negative air though.
Interesting here, there used to be a bunch of the big duct trucks. Now only 2 companies left and one is up for sale. Bunch have started with the portable negative air and rotobrush systems. City size 250,000 pop
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rhino1
Member
What you don't see is with any agitation system, some dust and dirt flies AWAY from your suction hose, and you just don't have enough CFM with that little hose to pull the dust back to you.
Desk Jockey
Member
I think you can do just as good a job without the big trucks but I'd love to have a Biltwell.
We are in a smaller town, 120,000 but there at least four of us that do air ducts seriously and a couple of others with their T. Plus we are 50-minutes from KC and we get both large companies for commercial work and bait and switch companies for residential. Whole house cleaning for $59.00
rhino1
Member
I had started with a tool that attached to my TM and man, could I clean some ducts with that. Then I got a camera and could see how poor a job was being done. I test drove a rotobrush and that was just a waste of time, what a burden. Then I went to a negative air machine and a spinning brush, which worked a lot better, but the spinning brush was hard on ductwork, and the heavy cable was a pain to deal with sometimes. So then I bought another negative air machine and a high dollar air compressor along with a whip system and I can say that I can truly do as good a job as anyone around. I don't think the area I am in could support many full-time Pringle type trucks.
Cleantechsk
Member
when doing the return lines for example and watching inside when I turn the unit on and start working how everything is not just blowing around but being sucked in is pretty impressive. Sure it kicks stuff around but you also are doing two cleaning passes clockwise in, counter out.
If this duct thing keeps going like it is I plan on heading down to air care for their class and taking a really good look at their top of the line negative air unit too. Gotta start somewhere right. If I am more so impressed Ill pick up a negative unit and put it in my VLM van.
If this duct thing keeps going like it is I plan on heading down to air care for their class and taking a really good look at their top of the line negative air unit too. Gotta start somewhere right. If I am more so impressed Ill pick up a negative unit and put it in my VLM van.
Cleantechsk
Member
I also am running an AT truck with 2.5/2" hose 
I know from my previous truck how much of a suction difference so i know that is helping me greatly
After video inspection as i said, I am happy with my work
I know from my previous truck how much of a suction difference so i know that is helping me greatlyAfter video inspection as i said, I am happy with my work
Cleantechsk
Member
I think you can do just as good a job without the big trucks but I'd love to have a Biltwell.
We are in a smaller town, 120,000 but there at least four of us that do air ducts seriously and a couple of others with their T. Plus we are 50-minutes from KC and we get both large companies for commercial work and bait and switch companies for residential. Whole house cleaning for $59.00
There is a Bitwell truck in canada for sale
close to the bottom
http://www.fibreclean.com/resources/classifieds/
Desk Jockey
Member
That's a good deal, new they are about double, 4-years ago I'd have bought it.
I'd still like it but it's dropped down a few notches on my wish list.
I'd still like it but it's dropped down a few notches on my wish list.
Desk Jockey
Member
We carry an Abatement Technologies unit in out duct truck for apartments or long difficult to reach hose runs. Nice to have the option of gas fired or electric.
rhino1
Member
An AT? I wouldn't use that jewel for vacuuming vents... how much is a new blower for one of those?I also am running an AT truck with 2.5/2" hose
After video inspection as i said, I am happy with my work
rhino1
Member
I have wondered a few times if I should start a budget duct cleaning company with a spinner and shop vac, I could charge like $9 a vent and hire a monkey to do it. I could not in all conscience call it duct cleaning though, I would have to call it vent vacuuming or something along those lines. It would be better than not doing anything at all probably, but I haven't been able to convince myself it would be ethical.
Desk Jockey
Member
You'd have to hire a guy, you'd never be able to sleep if you did it Chris!
Cleantechsk
Member
lol isnt it steambrite that sells a central vac + a whip brush for like 1500 ? There ya go?
Not too concerned Rhino...use a dust downer and of course an inline filter...
Not too concerned Rhino...use a dust downer and of course an inline filter...
some good info here guys, i think ill invest in a camera, let the customer know we are getting anywhere from 60-80% of the system clean, and upgrade from a portable aka truckmount attachment to a TM aka negative air machine in the near future.
Shane Deubell
Supportive Member
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2011
- Messages
- 4,052
JR, i think you can take the nadca classes online.
Great info guys, why we still have not jumped into this service yet.
Great info guys, why we still have not jumped into this service yet.
Just realize that duct cleaning is much harder and dirtier than carpet cleaning. Currently I'm in 6 different businesses, including a daycare with 63 children currently, franchised sub shop, and a nail/hair salon (that's leased out) . Believe me they all have their problems and airduct cleaning is no different. Of the more than a dozen different businesses that I have owned, duct cleaning is the worst over all. Lousy return on investment if you are properly equipped and it takes so long to do a decent job. If you do the all to common crap job, there is a million and one ways for you to get caught. Like the next time an HVAC guy comes out.
Using a truckmount attachment to clean ducts or that stupid Ram AIR wiz bang thing is the quickest way for a duct cleaner to get sued. All it will take is one job where the people have a child with asthma or some other upper respiratory issue and a post job camera inspection by another reputable firm and you are done. I have seen this happen three times in the last 12 years, all three cases actually went to trial and the original duct cleaner lost every time. The push/pull cleaners love coming behind carpet cleaners with Video cameras and redoing the job on film. Then they come to court as a witness when you are blamed for their child's two week stay in the hospital. Air care's service division was named in a multi-million dollar case involved where black mold was in the system. They just did a video inspection and declined the job. Another company did the job and agitating all the mold into the air stream resulted in the pastor of the church losing his eye sight from the disease and the death of his small child. The attorneys just sued all involved parties. Air care was dropped as a defendant but the cleaner that did the job was bankrupted and even lost his home. They tell the story at their training academy and I wondered if it was true or a scare tactic. I researched all cases involving Aircare online and found it.
Duct cleaning done improperly is a health risk and dangerous to your business. The allergy industry is promoting hyper active parents of allergy prone kids. It's a nightmare for the carpet cleaner that is "winging it". Admitting to poor source removal up front isn't a "disclaimer" it's admission of GROSS NEGLIGENCE. Please talk to a local attorney before you do the winging it duct operation. You have worked too hard to get wiped out. Remember insurance doesn't always cover gross negligence so be careful.
Using a truckmount attachment to clean ducts or that stupid Ram AIR wiz bang thing is the quickest way for a duct cleaner to get sued. All it will take is one job where the people have a child with asthma or some other upper respiratory issue and a post job camera inspection by another reputable firm and you are done. I have seen this happen three times in the last 12 years, all three cases actually went to trial and the original duct cleaner lost every time. The push/pull cleaners love coming behind carpet cleaners with Video cameras and redoing the job on film. Then they come to court as a witness when you are blamed for their child's two week stay in the hospital. Air care's service division was named in a multi-million dollar case involved where black mold was in the system. They just did a video inspection and declined the job. Another company did the job and agitating all the mold into the air stream resulted in the pastor of the church losing his eye sight from the disease and the death of his small child. The attorneys just sued all involved parties. Air care was dropped as a defendant but the cleaner that did the job was bankrupted and even lost his home. They tell the story at their training academy and I wondered if it was true or a scare tactic. I researched all cases involving Aircare online and found it.
Duct cleaning done improperly is a health risk and dangerous to your business. The allergy industry is promoting hyper active parents of allergy prone kids. It's a nightmare for the carpet cleaner that is "winging it". Admitting to poor source removal up front isn't a "disclaimer" it's admission of GROSS NEGLIGENCE. Please talk to a local attorney before you do the winging it duct operation. You have worked too hard to get wiped out. Remember insurance doesn't always cover gross negligence so be careful.
Mikey P
Administrator
Where is Ken Harris and that POS duct vac was huckin?
Cleantechsk
Member
nice write up Randy
so...if I do my own post inspection...and it looks GREAT then what?
by feeding the line way in there and checking multiple runs and the return line...
still a hack?
just curious on your opinion.
If on inspection something just doesn't look right or there are 3 dead cats and 200 pounds of lego I have no problem recommending a different company
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Desk Jockey
Member
Dustin if your post inspection is good, then the one area that might be lacking is addressing the blower. You might consider adding air washing of it, Chris sounds like he is doing a good job with it.
This is the kind of debris I question how would the larger 2-inch hose be able to remove much more than light airborne dust. The collector opening is just too small in my opinion to do a truly dirty system or with with large contaminants in the system.
This is the kind of debris I question how would the larger 2-inch hose be able to remove much more than light airborne dust. The collector opening is just too small in my opinion to do a truly dirty system or with with large contaminants in the system.
completely understand what you are saying, my thought process has changed significantly since reading this. Though i do ask this question, any duct cleaning guy can run into this issue i am assuming, you put your camera in pass over some mold, then clean the home 100% to the T, and still activate the mold and make it airborn. Now i could be wrong on this, but thought i would at least ask whats on my mind. What do you think about this scenario? Couldn't this situation happen to anyone?
Desk Jockey
Member
Anything is possible when dealing with the public and everyone has different sensitivity to allergens and mold. Could you accidentally disturb a problem? Yes but it's unlikely to happen if you do some pre-inspection.
First of all mold doesn't like metal as a food source, it also doesn't like airflow, however it is dark and possibly could be damp so it would need little use (little air movement) and a food source like dirt or joint tape or lined insulation paper or duct board. Check the filter, the filter should be showing you something if it's aiborne, is it a structural return? The wood framing could be your food source. If you've done your visual inspection then the next thing I'd do is ask. "Mrs Johnson, have you had any problems with mold and your duct system?" We get calls that know they have or have had an issue and the homeowner is trying to slide a mold concern in as regular duct cleaning. They know it's an issue but don't want to pay for remediation to the system.
You could also have them sign a waiver of liability with some language like "You are cleaning the system under negative air and barring unforeseen circumstances the should be no release of contaminants and the homeowner has no prior knowledge of any microbial activity." That should keep you safe & out of court. (I think Randy just shit himself! ) It won't and I just threw that in there to get Randy going! 
There is no protection on anything and no your insurance won't cover you unless you have a pollution package and even then it's still doubtful. They will look for ways to get out of coverage.
You can over play it, you probably have more risk cleaning carpet. You're using water, dirt in the carpet makes an excellent food source, a vacant house would be dark and no air movement. If you don't have the ac on and they close it up, you have a perfect mold growth environment. 
First of all mold doesn't like metal as a food source, it also doesn't like airflow, however it is dark and possibly could be damp so it would need little use (little air movement) and a food source like dirt or joint tape or lined insulation paper or duct board. Check the filter, the filter should be showing you something if it's aiborne, is it a structural return? The wood framing could be your food source. If you've done your visual inspection then the next thing I'd do is ask. "Mrs Johnson, have you had any problems with mold and your duct system?" We get calls that know they have or have had an issue and the homeowner is trying to slide a mold concern in as regular duct cleaning. They know it's an issue but don't want to pay for remediation to the system.
You could also have them sign a waiver of liability with some language like "You are cleaning the system under negative air and barring unforeseen circumstances the should be no release of contaminants and the homeowner has no prior knowledge of any microbial activity." That should keep you safe & out of court.
(I think Randy just shit himself! ) It won't and I just threw that in there to get Randy going! There is no protection on anything and no your insurance won't cover you unless you have a pollution package and even then it's still doubtful. They will look for ways to get out of coverage.
You can over play it, you probably have more risk cleaning carpet. You're using water, dirt in the carpet makes an excellent food source, a vacant house would be dark and no air movement. If you don't have the ac on and they close it up, you have a perfect mold growth environment.
