All this talk about rotary extractors, few questions...

[jcooper]

Generally speaking, those using a rotary tool, how much more water are you using on an avg. job compared to an avg. flow wand? Can you do two avg sized homes(4-5 rooms, stairs,hall) without dumping?

If cleaning a normal/avg. sized room, how much longer will the rotary take. There are still areas the roto won't get, right?

On carpets that are not installed correct(power stretched), do you see more ripples/bubbles after cleaning from using more flow/water?

Why would I/you use a rotary on lightly soiled carpet?

Suppose it's a new home owner who just wan't previous owners cooties out and carpet already looks great?

Do you use it on every job no matter what? Do you use it on ever job because of employees?



I've never used one, just looking for general info.....

At this point in our biz, I need to get faster/more efficient to complete more jobs per day. The thought of slowing down(getting home later) is a tuff one to handle.

 

[Ron K]

Jerry thanks for the post hope you get some good answers. I have a post trying to get some tech answers also in the Hardware room. We are in the same boat but I am thinking about this as far as employees goes and what to set up equipment wise. I think Steve Tuburine said he had his company set-up with only rx20's. Wondering if he had to become a Scothguard salesman and not a carpet cleaner. Some people "soapbox" the rotaries but I don't think they use them all the time maybe they do I don't know. If you could find out how much slower it is say 20% then you could raise your prices and still be ok. My personal opinion is you get a rotary to get better/consistent/idiot proof/quality results and not to increase speed.

 

[Jim Martin]

Generally speaking, those using a rotary tool, how much more water are you using on an avg. job compared to an avg. flow wand? Can you do two avg sized homes(4-5 rooms, stairs,hall) without dumping?

I can not tell you how much more water I am using....but it depends on your rotary and how it is set up.........I like the Hoss with the long flush bars......My thermal wave has a 150 gallon tank.....I can go 1...maybe 2 jobs before I have to turn on the APO...On the 570...I have a 90 gallon tank.....I set up the APO every job....

If cleaning a normal/avg. sized room, how much longer will the rotary take. There are still areas the roto won't get, right?

There will always be areas that the rotary will not get to...so you will have to use the wand on those...some rotaries get closer and under things better then others...
It takes only a few minutes more.....but if you want to compare it to the level of cleaning that each one will give you then the rotary is faster...because you will be there longer with a wand to get the results the rotary will give you......

On carpets that are not installed correct(power stretched), do you see more ripples/bubbles after cleaning from using more flow/water?

I have not seen a difference....its does not matter if your using a wand or the rotary.....if it is going to buckle it will do it with either one....



Why would I/you use a rotary on lightly soiled carpet?

just because it looks lightly soiled does not mean it is...a good rotary gets down in there and flushes out everything deep down...I have does many jobs that were lightly soiled and filled a filter with sand and hair that was embedded into the carpet.....

Suppose it's a new home owner who just wan't previous owners cooties out and carpet already looks great?

a good rotary is the best cootie extractor out there........Your client will thank you and will always call you back...

Do you use it on every job no matter what? Do you use it on ever job because of employees?

Yes...I am a avid rotary cleaner....most will tell you it is a over kill......but I have yet to see a filter that tells me it is.........

 

[Art Kelley]

Generally speaking, those using a rotary tool, how much more water are you using on an avg. job compared to an avg. flow wand? Can you do two avg sized homes(4-5 rooms, stairs,hall) without dumping?

If cleaning a normal/avg. sized room, how much longer will the rotary take. There are still areas the roto won't get, right?

On carpets that are not installed correct(power stretched), do you see more ripples/bubbles after cleaning from using more flow/water?

Why would I/you use a rotary on lightly soiled carpet?

Suppose it's a new home owner who just wan't previous owners cooties out and carpet already looks great?

Do you use it on every job no matter what? Do you use it on ever job because of employees?



I've never used one, just looking for general info.....

At this point in our biz, I need to get faster/more efficient to complete more jobs per day. The thought of slowing down(getting home later) is a tuff one to handle.

A rotary extractor should be checked before each job for no obstructions in airflow and a moist felt ring on the cleaning head providing a tight vacuum seal. I found I could dual wand with my TM using my 360i and my RX-20. That is to say you don't need the most powerful TM to utilize a single RE. I run my 360i with either a 230 cfm porty or a 500 cfm TM.
As for water use, it's all over the map. When cleaning a heavily soiled thick pile carpet, I can use 20-30 gallons of water, holding the solution valve open for 20 minutes. The porty system hooked to a faucet uses just over 1 gallon per minute and when running with my TM it's about 2 gallons per minute and I usually have the wand valve held in the on position with a rubber band so my trigger hand is free to use a hand held trigger sprayer for heavy spots. I have a 150 gallon waste tank on the TM I dump each job that almost never gets filled on any resi job, and the porty machine has auto dump so it can dump 75 gallons out into the foundation planting if need be.

As for using a RE on a lightly soiled job instead of a wand, you can go as fast as you would with a wand; it will move as fast as you can move if you want. It all depends on soiling conditions. I still use the wand by itself very often in those situations. It is nice though to have it available, especially on the 4th or 5th job late in the afternoon as it requires almost no effort on your part. unlike wanding which gets to be a fooking drag after about six hours. Plus, and this is a biggie for me, I was able to heal a long nagging shoulder injury that I was getting biannual cortisone shots for, by using the 360i more frequently instead of wanding. Within a year or two the pain stopped and it was bothering me for at least 5 years. The repetitive motion of wanding WILL catch up with you; it took 30 years for me. The RE has extended my career.

As for seeing more rippling, I have no idea when it will occur on a carpet; I have seen it with a gallon of prespray. I don't consider it a factor in whatever tool I use.

 

[Mark Saiger]

The Rotaries can be slower in home situations.

Not all places need a Rotary in my humble opinion, but when they do....nice to have.

I use a combination of many different types of agitation.

I have been lucky that in the past few years, I see a lot of better maintained homes and don't need the rotary as often.

Each carpet tends to respond better to different types of extraction and agitation, so I carry a lot of options.

I have RX 20 full slot and 5 jet units hooked to Butlers. If I were to update my RE units, I would lean towards a HOSS at this time I think.

For water usage, I run .02 jets in my RX 20 so compared to my 6 jet Prochem Titanium wands with same jetting, I probably go through about the same or a little more water useage. But keep in mind, I am using the RX on really heavy soiled carpets, so anything is going to use more water I would say to flush out the soils.

I used to use the RX 20 all the time, then found I can agitate with a small CRB unit pretty well these days and wand out more of my jobs.

The RX 20 is a bit more cumbersome in a lot of homes, but Jim Martin I think uses a HOSS pretty exclusively. (HA! I see Jim was responding the same time as me...LOL!)

You will see some bit more movement in carpets with the rotary action, but carpet that are going to ripple with moisture would with a wand also (my opinion and experience)

Here is a job that the Rotary was absolutely a must in my opinion the other day!

http://mikeysboard.com/forum/showthread.php?275342-Home-run-today!

 

[hogjowl]

How do you cram all the stuff in a Butler?

 

[Mark Saiger]

How do you cram all the stuff in a Butler?

Easy Peasy....

Just organized chaos!

 

[ruff]

And he forgot to mention that he sends a bunch of vans to each job. Each van equipped with numerous immediate and twice removed family munchkins.
Born to clean

Could that be the reason why none of Mark's family at large, ever returns his calls?

 

[Mark Saiger]

And he forgot to mention that he sends a bunch of vans to each job. Each van equipped with numerous immediate and twice removed family munchkins.
Born to clean

Could that be the reason why none of Mark's family at large, ever returns his calls?

LOL!

 

[Steve Lawrence]

I turn down the pressure to 250-350psi when using RX. 500 leaves carpets too damp IMO. Slightly more water usage than wands at 400-500 psi. RX-10 flow. wands at 9 flow.

 

[Russ T.]

Carpet cleaning businesses can be successful going either of two directions, quality or quantity. I have had to make a choice and commit to it and I think we all should. I chose the quality route. Yes, it's slower and I do go through more water (maybe 25%).

There are companies that do really well ($$$) without owning a RE. These companies usually focus on speed and upselling.

Think hard about who YOU are and the type of biz YOU want to run. If you want to offer the highest quality end product with the most soil removed, I believe you MUST use rotary extraction with some regularity. I try to use it in every residential job, at least in the living and high traffic areas. If you have never used one, you will be floored by the difference from a wand without agitation.

Lots of guys use a CRB or 175 for agitation and I believe they are also providing an extremely thorough cleaning. These guys are not 1 man shows though.

I'm alone and can do an incredible job, pretty efficiently, by myself...using my 360i. If I were to buy a RE now, I'd consider the HOSS or the RotoVac XL.

You asked great questions Jerry, you're on the right track!

 

[Vivers]

For us we use it on the heavily soiled carpets and matted traffic areas jobs.

They definitely use more water but we have an APO

As far as time it might take a little longer to do a room like five minutes but if the carpets are heavily soiled it will actually be faster than wanding and certainly a much more thorough clean

 

[Desk Jockey]

I used to think it took longer but I don't feel that way anymore.

I now think it takes about the same time as a wand provided you're doing a thorough job with the scrub wand. Crossing in heavily soiled areas trying to get the most soil out and best appearance. If you're just a "once over, wet it" guy then yes it will be slower.

It maybe be slightly more water dictated by you the operator. You'll find you spend a little more time restoring the traffic areas so you may use more.

I cleaned 800 sq/ft and 12-steps two weeks ago and used 75-gallons. How much water would I have used if it were just a wand? I'm not sure maybe 10-gallons less????

 

[jcooper]

I cleaned 800 sq/ft and 12-steps two weeks ago and used 75-gallons.

Holy crap!
That seems like a lot of water(to a wand guy)... Four rooms(800sf) and my tank/machine would shut down! 90 gallon tank and it shuts off at 75, I believe.

 

[Desk Jockey]

LOL

I guess I use a lot. I thought it was about the same as if I used a wand.
Butlers have 210 waste tanks but I'd need more water if I had another job to do.

 

[Shane Deubell]

Saturday i think we cleaned 8,000 sqr ft with 75 gallons .

But hey your the guy with all the 10 +'s not me

 

[shadygrady]

You must mean you 'went over' 8000sf, not 'cleaned' 8000sf. At that rate of application you must of had 15 minute dry times! lol

 

[Desk Jockey]

I think he used a Cimex.

 

[Shane Deubell]

You must mean you 'went over' 8000sf, not 'cleaned' 8000sf. At that rate of application you must of had 15 minute dry times! lol

Only thing i know it was about $900 in gross profit...

Not sure about the other stuff.

 

[Desk Jockey]

LOL

You're pathetic!

Congrats!

 

[NobleCarpetCleaners]

The last thing you said struck my the most that it really isn't about the tools as it's more about your personal system on the job; " I need to get faster/more efficient to complete more jobs per day. The thought of slowing down(getting home later) is a tuff one to handle" Everyone has some level of a standard on the job. It may be a moving target but we all have some quality standards we stick to job after job after job. You may find its simple a matter of being much more efficient with your movements after you step off the truck on each job, provided you don't skip any of your personal quality steps.

The toys we have in our vans are just tools and some are better at doing the job then others. We all put different values on them as they relate to the job. I put a big value on my current flavor of vacuum cleaner. It has allowed me to fill bags faster and better then anything I ever touched. But the vacuum cleaner for me is just the first step of many that get me back to the drivers seat and then calculate how efficient I was curb to curb.

I keep the original RV360 on board and 2 wands for the my rinses. I had an RX20 and did not like the weight of the machine. Do I use the 360 on every job?, not by a long shot. When I do, is it slower then my 14" glided wand? Sometimes yes and sometimes no. When my shoulders are positively killing me (and this year it's really catching up with me) I break out the 360 and don't give a crap how much (if any) additional time it takes to rinse out the crap.

Rotaries aren't cheap but perhaps you're going to have to purchase and dive in using one to see if it fits your original question/concern. Can a rotary speed up your jobs so you can fit more in by the end of day? The RE will certainly impact your current standards because they all dig in and churn out the crap even after you have filled a bunch of vacuum bags. I find that on the jobs where I have vacuumed like crazy that the bottom of my 360 looks the worst. Sand that could fill a beach and hair enough to weave a wig.

Look at your system and tweak it with tools/toys that make it what you want. Find things that fit your speed/quality preference.

 

[SamIam]

They use more water. I don't have an apo, they're not all easy peasy to use balance on some down right suck.

I did try the rotovac 360 i its real easy to use! not a fan of the rx20 a pita and the drymaster way to much water usage.

The hoss seems easy to use haven't used it all day on a job.
The rx20 will dig a lot of crap out, does it give you a better appearance not always.

Hey Jim M. claim your page its free

http://www.yelp.com/biz/beyond-clean-llc-tucson


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[dgardner]

Saturday i think we cleaned 8,000 sqr ft with 75 gallons .

But hey your the guy with all the 10 +'s not me

Shane that can't be right, can it? That's 1.2 ounces per square foot......

At a measly 1 gpm your wand would have to cover 2 square feet per second with no overlap to put down that little water.

 

[Shane Deubell]

The gross square feet was 8000
But they only used wand on hallways then encapsulated some areas. Had 2 restrooms also.

The tank was around a quarter on Monday. So 75-85 gallons.

 

[dgardner]

Gotcha.

 

[Russ T.]

Picked this much crap out of a living rm, hall, office, 1 bedroom today. There is nothing like a good rotary extractor.

Yes, it was pre vacuumed!

 

[SamIam]

Thats a lot of carpet fiber


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[Russ T.]

Thats a lot of carpet fiber


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It was mostly cat hair (2 of them in the home), but yes, there was some loose fibers.

She had a decoration that said "You say crazy cat lady, like that's a bad thing"

 

[SamIam]

Was that from a 360i


....

 

[Russ T.]

Was that from a 360i


....

Yes, with the standard 3 head. Been thinking about moving to a bigger RE as I use it a lot. Only a year old and don't want to lose my shirt.

It works great, just slow.