Am I correct in thinking there is a market for an all metal 4" uph-detail tool with a GreenGlide, full spray shield and ten ft internal whip hose?

[Sierra Clean Care]

Used my SS today on a family friend’s mattress,( his 10 year old sons actually). The poor kid has a bed wetting issue.

We went in, sprayed with unleashed, dwell, and hit the entire surface with BioBreak.
While I was extracting, I was paying attention to the amount of moisture I was was extracting. Wouldn’t be possible with a tool that doesn’t have a ‘clear’ view.
There were definitely areas I went over SLOWER than others.
I really like the fact I can see what I’m extracting.

 

[hogjowl]

Don’t get me wrong. I do like being able to see what I’m extracting through a window but on wands the window is too small and turns cloudy. I can’t really see much. On the other hand, my clear head SS upholstery tool is easy to see through, but mostly useless because the tool is so good at extracting that you don’t need to see the moisture your extracting on dry passes because dry passes aren’t necessary and you don’t need to see how much soil you’re extracting because upholstery isn’t normally that dirty. Plus upholstery prespray is foamy, so all you see is soap foam going through the head. It hides your view of the soil. I think a stair wand window might have more utility than a floor wand window because you’re standing nearer to it and may have a better view, but again, all you may see are soap bubbles and dark water. It may still be useless. Especially as the window ages.
In the end, it doesn’t matter to me if it has a window on it. I can ignore it if it also proves to be useless. The functionality of the tool itself is most important.

 

[Mikey P]

Don’t get me wrong. I do like being able to see what I’m extracting through a window but on wands the window is too small and turns cloudy. I can’t really see much. On the other hand, my clear head SS upholstery tool is easy to see through, but mostly useless because the tool is so good at extracting that you don’t need to see the moisture your extracting on dry passes because dry passes aren’t necessary and you don’t need to see how much soil you’re extracting because upholstery isn’t normally that dirty. Plus upholstery prespray is foamy, so all you see is soap foam going through the head. It hides your view of the soil. I think a stair wand window might have more utility than a floor wand window because you’re standing nearer to it and may have a better view, but again, all you may see are soap bubbles and dark water. It may still be useless. Especially as the window ages.
In the end, it doesn’t matter to me if it has a window on it. I can ignore it if it also proves to be useless. The functionality of the tool itself is most important.

I'm sure I've said this before here..

I think windows on any tool are good for initial training and understanding of the cleaning process but eventually they lead to us becoming over cleaners.

In most cases going over and over and over filthy carpets leads to browning/wicking and bacterial growth.

Not really the case with upholstery though.

I'll test a model with a window but the foam will probably negate the added cost and wear.


What makes the clear plastic tools work is the 360° effect of the clamshell, which obviously isn't possible with a metal tool.



Maybe a clear 12" hose joiner is the compromise...


We'll see.

 

[BIG WOOD]

I hope you are able to consider making a test model I suggested with the head of the tool having an internal jet. You can't compete with the edging that the pmf internal jet tool has. If they took my positive criticism on the weak points of the latest tools I purchased from them ( 2 internal jet tools at once), that would be the best on the market.

I suggested to you on FB that you can widen the gap on a pmf style tool to allow a teflon glide to fit in that gap that provides the gap big enough to pull the fabric in the chamber so the internal jet can properly clean the fabric WITHOUT over wetting the fabric if the jet was behind the vac chamber like the Prochem tool does. (even with the pressure knob turned down, it still doesn't fully clean the fabric because the jet needs to be exactly where the vac chamber is to properly clean where it's extracting. It's a terrible design. I'm sorry you old guy were forced to use only that tool before other tools came into the market.

With a good designed glide on that design I mentioned above, there will be no sharp edges on the glide that would cause distortion on the fiber either.


But if you just toss this suggestion in the trash like earlier, that tells me you already made up your mind and are just pre-advertising your "new" tool that you'll be selling soon, which seems to be just a copy prochem tool with the jet covered.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

I'll test a model with a window but the foam will probably negate the added cost and wear

Agreed

One of the reasons that I like the clear head on the Upholstery Pro is that it let's you see when you need to clean it out.

The key to this tool will be the cleaner knowing that an external jet tool can cause fluid to penetrate deeply through the fabric and into the internal materials in furniture, and that problems could occur if the cleaner isn't careful.


But you aren't responsible for how the tool is used Mike, only that it is functional and works as advertised.

 

[BIG WOOD]

.


But you aren't responsible for how the tool is used Mike, only that it is functional and works as advertised.

Very few times I disagree with your input, but I have to on this one.

I used those tools that were damaging my customer's property and a good designer will provide a tool or machine that limits that capability.

And since furniture is much more sensitive than carpet, why would someone put a tool like that in the hands of a training technician who isn't properly educated on the importance of how only the fabric needs to be wet and not underneath.

Let's discuss this more.

Look at machines. If they're not properly engineered to maintain the heat of the water to give you an option to turn down the heat, it can really damage the carpet or furniture.
Same with the tools. If the vac slot isn't properly designed, it can make distorted lines in the fabric that can't be groomed out.
Or a manufacturer selling a wand without a glide. Since the proof is out there that it is a need to have a glide to save the carpet and your shoulders, a glide is just as important as the trigger on the wand.

So selling a product that is very easy to over wet and unevenly clean an objet that isn't perfectly flat like carpet to have easy access to all the edges, needs to be taken back to the drawing board.

I say design a tool to fix PMF's lazy mistakes that they made to cut corners

 

[Jim Pemberton]

Very few times I disagree with your input, but I have to on this one.

I used those tools that were damaging my customer's property and a good designer will provide a tool or machine that limits that capability.

And since furniture is much more sensitive than carpet, why would someone put a tool like that in the hands of a training technician who isn't properly educated on the importance of how only the fabric needs to be wet and not underneath.

Let's discuss this more.

Look at machines. If they're not properly engineered to maintain the heat of the water to give you an option to turn down the heat, it can really damage the carpet or furniture.
Same with the tools. If the vac slot isn't properly designed, it can make distorted lines in the fabric that can't be groomed out.
Or a manufacturer selling a wand without a glide. Since the proof is out there that it is a need to have a glide to save the carpet and your shoulders, a glide is just as important as the trigger on the wand.

So selling a product that is very easy to over wet and unevenly clean an objet that isn't perfectly flat like carpet to have easy access to all the edges, needs to be taken back to the drawing board.

I say design a tool to fix PMF's lazy mistakes that they made to cut corners

I understand, and respect your passion for this Matt

I see value in a tool like Mike is proposing for synthetic fiber fabrics, as long as the cleaner knows their way around it on naturals, or uses VLM only on naturals.

But since that involves actually testing the fabric, that does limit things a bit.

We lived in a world without low moisture extraction tools once, but in fairness that world was full of a lot more bleeding and browning than the one we live in today.

On a related note:

I used to use and endorse the PMF internal jet tool, but felt that it still got things too wet in the middle, and it often distorted velvet and chenille fabrics. A glide would help, but the center spray distortion issue continued to frustrate me.

Now I use the 3" version of that tool for detail cleaning where the Upholstery Pro doesn't reach as well.

I'll be interested in what Mike ends up providing

 

[Cleanworks]

I understand, and respect your passion for this Matt

I see value in a tool like Mike is proposing for synthetic fiber fabrics, as long as the cleaner knows their way around it on naturals, or uses VLM only on naturals.

But since that involves actually testing the fabric, that does limit things a bit.

We lived in a world without low moisture extraction tools once, but in fairness that world was full of a lot more bleeding and browning than the one we live in today.

On a related note:

I used to use and endorse the PMF internal jet tool, but felt that it still got things too wet in the middle, and it often distorted velvet and chenille fabrics. A glide would help, but the center spray distortion issue continued to frustrate me.

Now I use the 3" version of that tool for detail cleaning where the Upholstery Pro doesn't reach as well.

I'll be interested in what Mike ends up providing

I still use the 3 inch PMF internal jet and have been able to balance it to give decent results. The larger 4-4.5 inch doesn't do as well. I like being able to slide the vac relief back so I can mist certain areas. I've found with the truck, 300 psi works well without overwetting. Great tool for vertical blinds as well.

 

[Mikey P]

I hope you are able to consider making a test model I suggested with the head of the tool having an internal jet. You can't compete with the edging that the pmf internal jet tool has. If they took my positive criticism on the weak points of the latest tools I purchased from them ( 2 internal jet tools at once), that would be the best on the market.

I suggested to you on FB that you can widen the gap on a pmf style tool to allow a teflon glide to fit in that gap that provides the gap big enough to pull the fabric in the chamber so the internal jet can properly clean the fabric WITHOUT over wetting the fabric if the jet was behind the vac chamber like the Prochem tool does. (even with the pressure knob turned down, it still doesn't fully clean the fabric because the jet needs to be exactly where the vac chamber is to properly clean where it's extracting. It's a terrible design. I'm sorry you old guy were forced to use only that tool before other tools came into the market.

With a good designed glide on that design I mentioned above, there will be no sharp edges on the glide that would cause distortion on the fiber either.


But if you just toss this suggestion in the trash like earlier, that tells me you already made up your mind and are just pre-advertising your "new" tool that you'll be selling soon, which seems to be just a copy prochem tool with the jet covered.

TLDR

 

[Jim Pemberton]

TLDR

Matt has valid points, and they are worth reading.

 

[Mikey P]

Matt has valid points, and they are worth reading.

I already read them on FB.

I'm not interested in making a whole new tool.
My success is based on modifying current designs.

Matt's idea would involve investing in a whole new body and I'm not going to spend that kind of money to start from scratch, in a flooded market.

 

[Mikey P]

FYI, getting a clear clamshell made in India starts at 25k for just the 1st rotomold...

 

[BIG WOOD]

FYI, getting a clear clamshell made in India starts at 25k for just the 1st rotomold...

If I could find you a more affordable approach to get a few different molds made, would you be interested in making a glide for it?

Because I already have a good picture of how a tool like that should be designed.

 

[Mikey P]

If I could find you a more affordable approach to get a few different molds made, would you be interested in making a glide for it?

Because I already have a good picture of how a tool like that should be designed.

Maybe