Another before and after color sealing

[safeclean]

This was a shower that I re grouted and than color sealed the floor notice the grout between wall and floor as she hated silicon as it gets mildew with in 6 months.

Craig

 

[SJA]

The shower looks great - very nice work. Be careful when doing showers - oftentimes people want structural problems fixed with cleaning/sealing. If you see alot of discoloration around the perimeter of the floor and the lower portion of shower (where wall meets floor), the pan may not be draining well. Taking the silicone out was a great idea because it allows the floor to dry/breath rather than trapping moisture in. Remember water flows through the tile and grout and also drains under the tile. If the pan is holding water and there is constant moisture under the floor - the customer may always have issues. I am not saying that you are doing anything wrong - I just do not want you buying someone elses problem. You can offer your customers a solution that looks great - but I would not imply that the problem is being fixed. I would sell it as an initial restoration and an as needed maintenance item.

 

[alazo1]

Looks good.
How did you prep the edges where silicon was?. It looks pretty nasty on the before pics. Did you regrout this area then colorseal?.

Albert

 

[safeclean]

Looks good.
How did you prep the edges where silicon was?. It looks pretty nasty on the before pics. Did you regrout this area then colorseal?.

Albert

We pulled out all the silicone waited for it to dry and installed new grout than color sealed.

craig

 

[TimP]

Grout shouldn't be installed into joints. You should be using a caulk. They make sanded and unsanded colored caulk for the joints. The reason it don't work as there is movement which will crack in a few months.

 

[safeclean]

Grout shouldn't be installed into joints. You should be using a caulk. They make sanded and unsanded colored caulk for the joints. The reason it don't work as there is movement which will crack in a few months.

Sorry but you are wrong you can use either, caulk mildews very quickly grout does not, movement sure if there is an earth quake if grouted correctly will never crack well never on my jobs.

A good rule off thumb is grout should be used where tile meets tile and caulk should be used where tile meets other materials if you do not believe me check out the prof who do this everyday.

Craig

 

[Gary T]

I am a professional who did this every day and all changes of plane should be caulked. The reason is stated above, movement issues. The grout will crack in those areas, I don't care how good of a job you think you did. The cracked grout allows water intrusion.

The shower pan has weep holes to allow moisture that may make its way under the tile to drain, they are not designed to allow large amounts of water to drain as they get clogged easily.

100% silicone caulk should be used, not siliconized latex, acrylic or some of the other crap sold at big box. Laticrete Latisil is my fav.

If you don't want to believe me check the TCNA (Tile Council of North America) Handbook or go to www.johnbridge.com and do a search on this subject.

 

[TimP]

Thank you gary.

And what you don't understand is that I've been in the flooring installation business for about 8 years before getting into cleaning. I know a thing or two about tile. I have even put in a few thousand sq ft of tile proffesionally, I found my knees couldn't take it though. And I've have yet to see a grouted corner in a shower not crack, reason being that each wall will move seperately (when ac turns, changes in temperature, also movement in house wind/storms etc) and you can't keep it from happening. You have to use something that will allow some flexing! Maipei makes stuff that has bioblock in it, also in their colored caulks. Supposedly it will not allow mold to grow within the material but it can grow on top of it. There are also some silicon caulks that wont allow mold growth within the material also. Just because you put grout on something doesn't mean it wont grow mold within it also, they have to have additives to keep it from happening.

 

[safeclean]

Silicon will mildew faster than grout but I let my customers choose which way they want to go but most of them have had enough with dirty looking silicon and decided to go the grout way I also let them know of the cracking possibilties, they are very happy and I told them to contact me if it cracks well that was years ago and no call backs, I have seen most of them and they still look and great and happy customers.

Who wants a call back after 3 months that there silicon is getting moldy as most of them do not maintain it anyway and mold sits in or under silicon is why your customers can not get it clean.

I understand that the grout will crack with movement but that is rare but yes I have seen it but I have also seen silicon crack as well. I know you guys are prof and I do not want to start a slinging match but I think you should be more open minded why not try your own showers and see. You can ask the pros at dirtygrout.com there are some good debates on it.

If you guys are wondering I do a lot of silicone jobs but I only do what the customer wants, sure I give them the pros and cons but I let them decide as it is them who are using it everyday and paying for it to stay that way. :|

Craig

 

[TimP]

I do have it in my own shower cause no installers will take the time to put caulk in a shower, in our area. They fill it all in cause they have the grout mixed get paid and don't worry about it. And yes it has cracked. and yes it grows mold in it. I've used silicon to fill in some cracks to help water proof it cause it was a lousy job. The silicon don't grow mold like the grout does. You have to get the stuff that is mold proof or whatever.

I put in the tub surround myself in our other bathroom and it doesn't have a problem and I used caulk in it. Not a crack or a problem what so ever. Not many showers are taken in there so mold isn't a problem as our son is young still and he only takes baths. I wish I would of done the shower but I had never done one, and was worried about doing a mud bed and sloping the floor shower pan and all.

I'm not trying to have a pissing match or anything I'm just relaying my experience and trying to help you out. If you don't have a problem then hey more power to you. Maybe you know something I don't and I'm willing to admit that.

I can tell you in our biz we don't get hardly any call backs about it but I know they are pretty much all cracked. Just very few complain.

 

[Gary T]

I don't want a pissing match either, but there are things that are not nor should be open to debate. And there is nothing to be open minded about in this case. It has been proven in field testing and inspection(CTIOA field reports back this up) that all changes of plane should be caulked. And in the next revision of ANSI 108.10 it will be included as standard from what I understand. Which means it will be code. No debate.

As a professional, I do not let the customer dictate my profession to me. That is they don't get to choose right or wrong, or I lose credibility as a pro in my field.

ANSI 108.10 = Standards (building code) for installation of ceramic tile.

CTIOA = Ceramic Tile Institute of America, responsible for research and field reporting to get the standards added to the above.

I also have grout in my showers in changes of plane cause the installers were "open minded", it is all cracked in a 3 year old install. I have done hundreds of shower repairs and rebuilds, 99% have had cracked grout in transition areas where most lead to water damage in the substrate.

I love the dirty grout board, but most are not installers and have no idea of proper install techniques. The debates are those VS the pro installers on there. Those who let the customer decide on proper install technique.

 

[safeclean]

Thanks guys its good to talk with you on this subject, just to clear things up I am only talking about a shower install wet area floor to wall only anything else silicon is my number one choice. I know we will disagree on this but there are a lot off other showers holding up very well with grout and silicon but my everyday job is replacing moldy silicon and thats just after 6 months usage.

I know there is cheap silicons out there that they may use but my job is to give what the customer wants.
Eg. If your customer did not want silicon and you convinced them in using it and if it gets moldy again who will she blame.

After I explain the pros and cons of grout cracking and get them to sign a waiver than we are all happy and I have covered myself, it is great that you advice them as we are the professionals but you must still cover yourself because the customer is always right even if they are not.

craig