Another Shaw/CRI mystery

[encapman]

Carey Mitchell of Shaw Industries has recently been stating that encapsulation is not an acceptable cleaning method. And of course, the CRI is following Shaw's lead as they have not yet chosen to accept encapsulation as a testable cleaning method.

So let's be clear about this; the CRI and Shaw are not currently favoring encapsulation. That's interesting. Well then take a look at page 8 of the following SHAW MAINTENANCE manual where it recommends maintaining Shaw's commercial carpet with a CRI APPROVED "Encapsulation" detergent. http://www.excellent-supply.com/shaw_maintenance_brochure.pdf
It states the following information regarding encapsulation cleaning:

"• Low moisture encapsulation: Low moisture encapsulation
systems efficiently improve carpet appearance with limited down
time for cleaning and drying. The cleaning agent R2Xtra, or another
encapsulating cleaner certified by the Carpet and Rug Institute (CRI)
Seal of Approval Program, is applied and mechanically agitated into
the carpet pile, allowed to dry, then vacuumed to remove the
encapsulated soil. In conjunction with scheduled hot water extraction,
the low moisture method helps maintain premium carpet appearance. "

But wait a minute; Shaw's Carey Mitchell is currently saying that they don't accept encapsulation! And at this point in time, the CRI has not yet recognized "encapsulation cleaning" as a testable cleaning method. So then how in the world will it be possible for anyone to use an "encapsulating cleaner certified by the Carpet and Rug Institute (CRI) Seal of Approval Program"???

I guess it's a mystery. :shock:




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[Guest]

If you think that's strange, look at this!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ewu1laA2nmI

http://youtube.com/watch?v=o-4f_NMUxcY&feature=related

 

[The Cleaning Artist]

The encap chem might have passed the testing standards for chemicals However the method is described as a appearance cleaning and might not have passed as an acceptable method for soil removal.

 

[encapman]

the method is described as a appearance cleaning and might not have passed as an acceptable method for soil removal.

If it's not acceptable, why is it listed in Shaw's product care manual?




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[Scott]

Last fall I attended an SCRT event where Carey Mitchell discussed encap. usage and he parroted exactly what their site says:

"In conjunction with scheduled hot water extraction, the low moisture method helps maintain premium carpet appearance."

At no time during his presentation did he say encap. ruined carpets or that he didn't "like" it. Yes, they still prefer HWE but I didn't hear any encap. hate-mongering being uttered.

Scott

 

[The Cleaning Artist]

Scott beat me to it.

As I read, Shaw accepts encap for appearance at those times where wet cleaning is not able to be performed but recommends that scheduled HWE should be performed for soil removal. Seems logical to me.

 

[encapman]

Scott,
When the LMCCA members were at the CRI headquarters for a meeting this past fall, Carey referenced a CIRI study that they had commissioned, and he made it clear to all in attendance that he felt encapsulation was unacceptable.



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[The Preacher]

yore house of cards is starting to crumble RiCKY. SHAMpoo is a slippery sloop!!!

JIm LADwig on Dannys computer!


PS if yore gonna sell out all the encap juice at a DEEP discount, put me down for a pallet!!!

 

[alazo1]

Save those docs.

Albert

 

[encapman]

Danny, encap is NOT on a slippery slope. Quite the contrary!

I'm simply commenting on what seems to be a contradiction relating to Shaw's stated position regarding encapsulation cleaning. As I said above, I guess it's a mystery.



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[The Preacher]

HINT: notice the laughing and razz icons in my post. sometimes i think yore more serious than Loonie!!!

 

[encapman]

Comparing me to Lonnie?
Now that's not fair :x

LOL


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[R W]

Chris Conner.....you're nuts!


Man, I remember watching "The Exorcist" many years ago.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

Its sometimes difficult to navigate the pathways of Shaw, CRI, et al.

In the latest study that is being presented, the data is insufficient, the conclusions unclear, and sadly the soil is what they diplomatically call "designer soil".

There are comments that infer that "encapsulation cleans no better than water alone" (and graphs that seem to "prove" this conclusion"), yet at other times it is conceded that encapsulation is a viable method if HWE is used every other time.

The authors of the study freely admit that their soil, lacking an oily component, may not reflect actual conditions in the field, but they are "confident" that it would. The "designer soil" also makes the carpet look darker and appear to me more soiled than it is, so the pictures that are used create false impressions as well.

I was also troubled by the fact that just one machine was used, and one encap product was used for most of the test protocols.

To put it another way:

Imagine if Hot Water Extraction was tested by using one extractor and one detergent and using "designer soil". Would that be a fair representation of how Hot Water Extraction is used overall?

I'm not heavily committed intellectually or financially into encapsulation. But I am troubled by tests that just scratch the surface of the issue, and perhaps lead to invalid conclusions.

 

[John Buxton]

I dont remember the carpet manufactures name but years ago in their brochure they recommended Chem Dry but did not recommend bonnet cleaning. I called them on it, and they danced around the issue getting piisy with me.

 

[Dolly Llama]

Ricky, maybe Carey is just concerned that an army of your encRap gEEks will continue to keep swirling encRap pixie dust sauce into the carpet year after year, til it's so impacted with gunk, it can't be cleaned properly unless restorative methods are used :roll:


..L.T.A.

 

[The Great Oz]

Shaw was fine with our use of encap as a post-HWE method to keep the carpet looking more clean between extractions, even recommended it. They just wanted the carpet to be clean as well as look clean.

 

[Royal Man]

The whole thing seems like a way for shaw to shift their responsibility to pay for warranty claims.

-And while they continue to make carpet that absorbs oil and gets hard and matted in less than a year.


If they really cared about quality products they would look in the mirror and discover that they have a lot of crap going out their doors.


Always follow the money!!



It's like blaming the maid service for a shabby built house instead of the contractor.



Next time a customer complains I'll blame the local water system and make them pay for new carpet because the water doesn't have my SOA.


NO reason we can't join the band wagon and shift the blame further down the road.

 

[hogjowl]

Come on guys! Most of you have been on these boards long enough to know what Ricky's doing. He and PadSon both aren't nearly as "put out" by any of this as they claim to be. These inconsistencies are nothing more than just another excuse to put their methods and chemicals up for further discussion.

They're both snake oil salesmen to the bone. 8)

 

[encapman]

Martin you're a knucklehead.

:wink:

This topic is pertinent to ALL encap cleaners. The subject should also interest any cleaner who doesn't feel they should be dictated to by some folks in Dalton who seem to have a double sided point of view on certain matters.




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[Ron Werner]

from what I've seen lately about the political process between the manufacturers and CRI and other groups, most of this is aimed at covering the manufacturers ass wrt warrantees. Its not about what works or what doesn't work. If they were really concerned about the care and maintenance of carpet, it should be a simple matter to state the facts considering the # of years of experience available for consultation, based on years of actual field usage/testing.

 

[hogjowl]

Didn't the term "knucklehead" go out of fashion around about the time plaid shorts first started showing up on Island Boy?

 

[Scottie]

Maybe he meant Kunklehead?

 

[Harry Myers]

Most companies do say encapsulation or dry cleaning method is good to use. But it should be HWE for full soil extraction.

 

[randy]

Pemberton, your 46 years in this industry (gee that sounds OLD) has obviously left you suspicious of " lab created " dirt. I would have liked to seen the look on your dad's face when he first heard about the fake dirt.

Encapman, you make a valid point but just didn't take it fair enough so I will.

Cary Mitchell is full of shit, a shaw industry bullshit artist with a clear agenda. Wait till we all see who he goes to work for when he retires from Shaw (which will probably be soon). That will explain much of this Shaw, CRI and IICRC scam of the century.

 

[John G]

Slutley

I wasn't in this discussion, but seems you have the need to include me.

I am sure to a redneck 'bama boy this all makes sense, it should, because it doesn't to anyone else.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

Randy

The 46 ( now 48 ) years is the cleaning business lifetime. Mine "life's" experience starts when I was 9 helping clean a car dealership, so its only 40 for me! Which still makes me feel old.

My father's comment?

He reminded me of a sample of carpet he received from an "Leading Industry Group" back in the days when he cleaned with a rotary scrubber, a floor pad, and "soil retardant carpet shampoo".

They had taken a steam gun that generates "live steam" (such as dry cleaners use for spotting) and removed all of the heat set from the yarns on half of it, and labeled it "Results of Steam Cleaning".

The other "bright, soft, and clean" side was the one labeled as having been cleaned with shampoo.

That was around 40 years ago. The only difference is that then "steam" was the "upstart enemy".

Let's just have tests, whether they are "encap tests" or "SOA tests" or any other tests to come that are done with a broader representation of cleaning machines, cleaning products, carpet and fiber types, soil types that reflect the real world, and clear, objective conclusions.

 

[hogjowl]

You've been pouting in your room for over two months and I figured you needed to be insulted into coming out into the light of day.

Welcome back, buttwad.

 

[John G]

Been to busy to bother PorkButt.

 

[Jimmy L]

I do believe I DON'T SEE a method called encapsulation.

Its STILL called the SHAMPOO method according to the IICRC.


Just as steam cleaning was renamed HWE.

The term SHAMPOO was renamed by some chemical makers to ENCAPSULATION.

For marketing and sales purposes I believe?

Its seems SHAMPOO just doesn't sell as well?