ATP

Desk Jockey

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Used it mainly on cdiff jobs to verify high touch areas that we accomplished our cleaning goals. Worked really well provided you tested prior and post cleaning.
 

Fat Mike

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Used it mainly on cdiff jobs to verify high touch areas that we accomplished our cleaning goals. Worked really well provided you tested prior and post cleaning.
I have a buddy pushing it hard to get get cat 1/cat 2 losses turned into cat3’s also with covid and extra ppe&precautions you can pretty much call it cat 3. We have
 

Jim Pemberton

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Just be sure to understand what it measures. The readings show that living microorganisms are present, but not what those microorganisms are. It also does not read the presence of virus.

They are best used as a way to prove that a surface has been cleaned, but shouldn’t be used to make any claims against the presence or lack of presence of specific pathogens or mold.
 

Mikey P

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I prefer to go by the ol' If it smells clean, it is clean, moto..


Why complicate things when we're really not capable of controlling them
 

Desk Jockey

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These meters are great but it only shows you activity with counts. Not what you are actually reading. Could be mold, bacteria, sewage but you only know a count.

So it's great for proving a reduction but you really don't know for definite what you reduced.
 
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Fat Mike

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These meters are great but it only shows you activity with counts. Not what you are actually reading. Could be mold, bacteria, sewage but you only know a count.

So it's great for proving a reduction but you really don't know for definite what you reduced.
Right unless for wdr then you have a lab test for specifics
 
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Desk Jockey

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Right unless for wdr then you have a lab test for specifics
We mostly did for mold remediation work. Mainly for an established protocol to work with.

With Steramist we would hang CI's that would verify chemical reached the area. If that wasn't enough for the client we would hang BI's and those indicators would be processed at a lab for validation.
 

Joseph225

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These meters are great but it only shows you activity with counts. Not what you are actually reading. Could be mold, bacteria, sewage but you only know a count.

So it's great for proving a reduction but you really don't know for definite what you reduced.
This is actually incorrect. I can buy swabs for ATP for my meter, but I can also buy swabs that test for the presence of specific bacteria, as well.

I CAN specifically test for the following:
  1. Enterobacteriocae
  2. Coliform
  3. E. Coli
  4. Acid Phosphatase
These tests are each performed with a swab specific to them, that is different from a normal ATP swab.

Find E. Coli or Coliform on a WDR, and suddenly the adjuster can't argue with you about CAT of loss. It's CAT 3.
 

Desk Jockey

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This is actually incorrect. I can buy swabs for ATP for my meter, but I can also buy swabs that test for the presence of specific bacteria, as well.

I CAN specifically test for the following:
  1. Enterobacteriocae
  2. Coliform
  3. E. Coli
  4. Acid Phosphatase
These tests are each performed with a swab specific to them, that is different from a normal ATP swab.

Find E. Coli or Coliform on a WDR, and suddenly the adjuster can't argue with you about CAT of loss. It's CAT 3.
I didn't know that, very interesting. I'll have to check into that.

You get resistance about cat 3? 🤔
 

Joseph225

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Just be sure to understand what it measures. The readings show that living microorganisms are present, but not what those microorganisms are. It also does not read the presence of virus.

They are best used as a way to prove that a surface has been cleaned, but shouldn’t be used to make any claims against the presence or lack of presence of specific pathogens or mold.
Sorry Jim. My original post had a blog article I wrote about the subject of ATP and what it's good for. I'm lucky enough to live right next to VT, and have one friend who defended his dissertation in Microbiology, back during the early part of 2020. I first came across the subject of ATP in the CIRI seminar, back in April, and wound up buying one. I've discussed it, in depth, with both the micro-biologist as well as a lady in the Food Sciences department who used to do inspections and investigations for the FDA. I find it all remarkably interesting, and believe that it has helped me become a better cleaner, as a result.

And i don't care what it promises on the jug.


Go lift a piss soaked carpet......
What?


moved link discussion to its own thread - fredc
 
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Joseph225

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I didn't know that, very interesting. I'll have to check into that.

You get resistance about cat 3? 🤔
I don't do WDR (yet). For my personal edification, though, I got ICRA certified (Supervisor level), earlier this year. We discussed ATP meters in depth during class, and that was a point he made. I got the impression that a number of jobs that would normally be considered CAT 1 or CAT 2 would become CAT 3 pretty quickly, if tests like this were being performed.

The cultures require that an 8 hour time period elapse before you can actually test them, though. At least with my meter.
 
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Desk Jockey

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Interesting so you're say a 2 that develops into a 3 is the fight. I can see that, insurance companies are all about minimizing the loss with little regard to what is actually required to return the property to preloss condition.
 

Cleanworks

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Interesting so you're say a 2 that develops into a 3 is the fight. I can see that, insurance companies are all about minimizing the loss with little regard to what is actually required to return the property to preloss condition.
Reminds me of a job I was asked to look at in a building I service. They had a leak in the hot water heating system. The restoration company kept calling it a black water flood, indicating a cat 3. It was actually a drinking water flood as the heating system uses the same water for everything in the building. Small localized flood in 3 suites. Maybe 40 sqft. total in each suite. Cat 3 is a lot more involved and expensive than a cat 1. That's one of the reasons insurance is getting more and more expensive.
 

Joseph225

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Reminds me of a job I was asked to look at in a building I service. They had a leak in the hot water heating system. The restoration company kept calling it a black water flood, indicating a cat 3. It was actually a drinking water flood as the heating system uses the same water for everything in the building. Small localized flood in 3 suites. Maybe 40 sqft. total in each suite. Cat 3 is a lot more involved and expensive than a cat 1. That's one of the reasons insurance is getting more and more expensive.
"Black Water Flood" doesn't have a standardized definition within the industry, I don't believe. That's bullshit that's said either through ignorance or with the intent of using fear to sell. I'm not a fan of that kind of behavior.

If I find coliform bacteria on a job, though, I'm not gonna let that kind of crap slide. That's quantifiable and is going to be treated with what I consider to be necessary precautions.
 

Fat Mike

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Reminds me of a job I was asked to look at in a building I service. They had a leak in the hot water heating system. The restoration company kept calling it a black water flood, indicating a cat 3. It was actually a drinking water flood as the heating system uses the same water for everything in the building. Small localized flood in 3 suites. Maybe 40 sqft. total in each suite. Cat 3 is a lot more involved and expensive than a cat 1. That's one of the reasons insurance is getting more and more expensive.
Lot more details needed, what materials that water passed through and also how long that water sat there. Lots of different variables will turn cat 1 into cat 3
 
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Cleanworks

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Lot more details needed, what materials that water passed through and also how long that water sat there. Lots of different variables will turn cat 1 into cat 3
Restoration company was on site in 2 hours from the occurrance. Fresh water leaked out of the heater. passed through the carpet, pad, wall with insulation. Exactly the same if the fresh pipe to a sink burst. Should have been a simple extract, drying equipment to dry the carpet with pad in place. Couple of holes in the wall, the insulation barely got damp.
 
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