Avenge Pro- Good products- Why not more concentrated?

[ruff]

So, in the usual (never ending) struggle to free more space in the van I bought some quart bottles. I am transferring products from the 1 Gal container to smaller ones. I love carrying lots of different products (I believe that specialty formulated products do perform better.)

And I really like and buy Bridge point products. I find them to be excellent products and the company to be innovative and make a very complete line. And Scott W. and Tom F. are people I truly trust.

Why are the Avenge upholstery pre-spray products dilute-able only 1:1. This is not a price issue. It is a storage/space issue. Prochem's fine fabric pre-spray is 1:32. It allows me to carry a smaller bottle that will last a long time (alas it carries the famous PC "spinster" scent.)

Is there a way to make the Avenge products more concentrated (yes, raise the price) to accommodate our predicament?

 

[Tom Forsythe]

The Avenge Upholstery pre-sprays can be diluted 1 to 4 or further depending on the job. One limitation on some water-based products is that the water will only hold in solution so much raw material. For example, STPP used in most powdered pre-sprays and rinses can only be diluted in water at an 8% rate while TKPP can be diluted at a 50% rate. Some solvents can be diluted into water at a 2% rate while other solvents like butyl at a 50% rate. Also the combinations of solvents, builders and surfactants can impact the saturation point as well. Some liquid formulas are saturated at 10% raws with no more room in the water and we built a laundry detergent years ago at 65% solids. We also have a Fabric Pre-spray that dilutes at 1 to 8 in the Bridgepoint line.

The Avenge Upholstery Pre-sprays where our first foray into complex formulations. We bought several upholstery pieces from the thrift store and did alot of R&D side by side testing against the industry benchmark at that time (probably Prochem but this has been over 15 years ago). Over the years they have only been changed to meeting California Low VOC laws. A few years back we looked at revising the formula with something similar to Avenge Pro, but did not find any benefit in upholstery cleaning even with higher saturation and dilution rate.

 

[ruff]

Thanks Tom

..... A few years back we looked at revising the formula with something similar to Avenge Pro, but did not find any benefit in upholstery cleaning even with higher saturation and dilution rate.

If doable, the advantage will be less waste in shipping (a saving) and for us storage in the van and elsewhere.

 

[dealtimeman]

I’m pretty sure at your request they have immediately started formulation and packaging of the new concentrate just for you ofer.

 

[Tom Forsythe]

One of the reasons that I have monitored this board for about a decade is to listen and make changes to formulas when I can. I only started posting a few years ago when Scott's duties changed for a few months. There are always reasons why a project will not be done like product volume, current work load, nature of concern, etc.. I understand and appreciate the suggestion to make it more concentrated. On balance we make some of the most concentrated water based formulas in the industry, but unfortunately not in this case.

Some requests are not scientifically possible. A few of our concentrated peroxides like Encapuclean O2 and Stain Zone have sour odor issues when shelf life expires (sometime after one year). There is no formulary solution so distributors and end users need to buy in smaller amounts and not store in areas not climate controlled. We had a H2O2 manufacturer work on this souring issue for a few years and recently gave up as they found no solution. Sulfamic acid is the only powdered acid that works in the Flex Ice formula so the odor covered by a fragrance can not be improved upon. We tried 10 fragrances and all soured upon shelf life. The one fragrance chosen mitigated the odor as much as anything else without souring. We do what we can do in most cases.

Generally we update 5 to 10 formulas a year with new raw materials that make the product safer, greener, etc. without sacrificing performance. Recently we found a new surfactant that acts like a solvent and have slowly incorporated it into 5 formulas. We call it our super surfactant and is a game changer, except for the fact that it does not play well with alot of ingredients. Typically we do not advertise upgrades as some cleaners are cynical and think we improved our margins by adding more water. Sometime the changes are dramatic so we need to inform our customers of the changes. We changed the formula of TCU Neutralizer and changed the name to Urine Neutralizer as we found a way to add an odor encapsulant (Hydrocide) to a strong acidic formula for the first time.

I appreciate the support of the board as I can continue to do what I love as long as cleaners buy our products. I have also enjoyed engaging with this board on scientific principles as we try to make sure we teach and use the science in our products.

 

[Jimmy L]

Did you update the encapucleanO2 formula yet?

 

[Desk Jockey]

So, in the usual (never ending) struggle to free more space in the van I bought some quart bottles. I am transferring products from the 1 Gal container to smaller ones. I love carrying lots of different products (I believe that specialty formulated products do perform better.)

And I really like and buy Bridge point products. I find them to be excellent products and the company to be innovative and make a very complete line. And Scott W. and Tom F. are people I truly trust.

Why are the Avenge upholstery pre-spray products dilute-able only 1:1. This is not a price issue. It is a storage/space issue. Prochem's fine fabric pre-spray is 1:32. It allows me to carry a smaller bottle that will last a long time (alas it carries the famous PC "spinster" scent.)

Is there a way to make the Avenge products more concentrated (yes, raise the price) to accommodate our predicament?

Wow that was A LOT of sucking up. I'll be careful not to step into any of the spittle.

Ofer just use PC's fine fabric upholstery prespray. https://interlinksupply.com/index.php?item_num=CU79GL
it's good stuff! Woolsafe too!

 

[Old Coastie]

I like Avenge, and it is available locally at my chemical Pimp.

So...

 

[Nomad74]

Following dot. “.”

 

[ruff]

I’m pretty sure at your request they have immediately started formulation and packaging of the new concentrate just for you ofer.

As cynical as that remark is Michael. I just let people know. Surely they will not create a special product for me, but if I and others let them know what we want & prefer, it is a good feedback for them.

Wow that was A LOT of sucking up. I'll be careful not to step into any of the spittle.

Ofer just use PC's fine fabric upholstery prespray. https://interlinksupply.com/index.php?item_num=CU79GL
it's good stuff! Woolsafe too!

Take a hike Pike. I really respect Tom & Scott and stand behind what I said.
I use PC fine fabric. Don't like the smell. Open to other products. Foe example their Avenge HD supposedly works well to replace amoniated products without the stench.

 

[Desk Jockey]

As cynical as that remark is Michael. I just let people know. Surely they will not create a special product for me, but if I and others let them know what we want & prefer, it is a good feedback for them.


Take a hike Pike. I really respect Tom & Scott and stand behind what I said.
I use PC fine fabric. Don't like the smell. Open to other products. Foe example their Avenge HD supposedly works well to replace amoniated products without the stench.

They are good guys and I appreciate all their input here. Juzzz pickin on U!

 

[ruff]

I know you did Richard. But your, oh so disturbing, geographical proximity to Jimmy sometimes makes me wonder

 

[Willy P]

I'll be careful not to step into any of the spittle.

We all know you're a lick spittle anyway.........

 

[Cleanworks]

I know you did Richard. But your, oh so disturbing, geographical proximity to Jimmy sometimes makes me wonder

They're twins aren't they?

 

[Jimmy L]

I AM WATCHING YOU OFER!

 

[ruff]

Yea.
With you watching me and facebook, that's why I covered my computer's camera with duck tape

 

[ruff]

They're twins aren't they?

That's an excellent question.
Richard?

 

[Cleanworks]

That's everybody's worst nightmare. Having Jimmy watching them on their own computer and playing with h..