axial fans or reg fans?

[handdi]

need some info on what would be the best for my next purchase.
i have 3 dehu and 8 fans-- 2lgr and 1 1200
i know i need some more fans
should it be reg carpet fans or the axial fans?
jon don for the money has some reg fans 175 bucks
or should it be axial fans for lower amp pull
doin a wd course in march and yellow pages comin out in april
we will get a few jobs i know by just answerin the phone
and my customer base also.
any feed back would be aprec
thanks Randy

 

[Mark Saiger]

Hi Handdi,

Reading your post, I would suggest looking at the Force 9 Axials from Jon Don as some extra fans. They have done some nice research on making them more user friendly. The price is a bit more than the regular fans if you can afford them. They are nice for extra air movement and really are easier to find power on water losses to run more equipment. If money is the factor though, I would proably lean towards the regular air mover so you could get twice the amount of air movers for right now until you can recover some money and then reinvest in equipment.

You can contact me if you wish with more questions. I am not claiming to be the expert on all of this, but have experience.

Mark Saiger

 

[Desk Jockey]

You should probably have a mix, but the axials are nice with daisy chain and low amp draw.

Drieaz Jet CXV or Force Nine's are both good choices for axials.

 

[handdi]

how about the mytee tradewinds any body have any of these?

 

[Hoody]

I had a few, and they're stackable which is nice to dry behind walls in partially finished basement. Put out a good deal of air flow.

Like Richard said having a mix of centrifugal, and axials will be your best bet.

 

[topnotchman]

Get the Dri-Eaz Sahara X3's if you going for a standard air mover. I wouldn't get the "economy" model (Sahara E) because its pulls over 7amps (vs 4.0 amps on the X3), and cant daisy chain them. So just spend the extra on the Sahara X3.

I only have experience with the Drieaz ACE as far as axials go. Kinda loud, but nice to have it only pull 1.5 amps per. Its also a good axial because its multi-positional to dry different things.

I want to try out the DriEaz Jet CXV, seems like a good all 'rounder for a axial.

 

[Desk Jockey]

We have 60 of the Saraha X-3's nice airmovers, wish all of my Sahara's were X-3's.

I'm not fond of the Ace, I like the Jet CXV or Force Nine over it.

 

[dealtimeman]

richard i dont think anyone is fond of the ace.

 

[steve g]

axials are generally the nicer fans to have, they move more air and generally draw less amps, however recently there have been companies making low draw snail units as well, viking has some, and the omnis are lower amp too, mytee also has a low amp snail, the problem with axials is they are $400+ for the phoenix, dryair and drieaz models, I think there is some gouching going on with these companies and a lack of competition is causing it. the phoenix axials are my favorite, they are not the most durable, but the motors are cheap to replace and they are fairly easy to carry unlike the ACE fans which have those stupid legs that stick out, try carrying 2 down a set of stairs sometime

 

[J Scott W]

You should have a mix. I liked about 2 of the axial fans for each of the whistle style or centrifugal fans.

Omni dry 2.9 amp centrifugal fans can be had for $175. each (less in volume). That is very low amp draw for that type of airmover. The Focal point axial fans are about $360 each.

 

[The Great Oz]

The course you take should give you some answers. One of which would be to call a fan an airmover, as airmovers rent for a higher price than fans.

"Snail" air movers are designed to send out a flat plane of air in a wedge pattern, best used for drying a flat floor surface or for tucking under carpet or pad to float.

Axials move a larger quantity of air but they're more for ventilation or directing air above floor level.

 

[kmdineen]

I agree that you will need a mix of centrifugal and axial air movers. Axial air movers move more air using fewer amps than centrifugal air movers. Centrifugal air movers create more static pressure than axial air movers and are better for floating carpet, pressurizing walls and getting air movement through the flutes of wood floors.
I use mostly Phoenix Focus air movers but I also have some Sahara Pro 1HP air movers.

 

[handdi]

Thanks for everybodys imput greatly apprec
Pretty confusing what to do money is an issue
so like alot of ya said i will go with some air movers have 5 x-3 but really expensive
couple people has said good things about vikings and i see they have a very low amp unit out now
i'll do some homework on them and see what they cost
i figure on 20 or so should get me goin with confidence
along with my 8 airmovers and 3 dehu.

 

[Bill Bruders]

Just for the record Aces are still very popular many restorers won't trad them for anything.
As for low amp airmovers, don't be fooled less amps equals less air and slower drying.
Finally for those who want to believe in some kind of price conspiracy. Do you charge less because you pay less? I doubt it. As with most things you get what you pay for whether it's carpet cleaning or equipment.

 

[topnotchman]

Well said Mr Bruders!

 

[Desk Jockey]

Just for the record Aces are still very popular many restorers won't trad them for anything.

Yea, I know a company in Wichita that has 900-Ace's, they love them.

I just think the Jet CXV is a much better unit.

 

[steve g]

Just for the record Aces are still very popular many restorers won't trad them for anything.
As for low amp airmovers, don't be fooled less amps equals less air and slower drying.
Finally for those who want to believe in some kind of price conspiracy. Do you charge less because you pay less? I doubt it. As with most things you get what you pay for whether it's carpet cleaning or equipment.

isn't the point putting money in our pockets rather than having fancy expensive equipment to look at. if the job pays the same and I save on equipment that is more money for me, I have a wife with expensive tastes every little bit helps.


the ace is an ok unit, it draws a very low amount of power but does move less air than the phoenix axials or dri airs. personally I don't need the legs or all the different positions the unit can blow, most restoration companies have a variety of other fans already, if I need to blow something upward I can just grab a snail unit. the stacking of the aces has its pros and cons, the pro is you can stack them 7 high or more, the con is since each one has to be turned slightly to fit over the one below it if you stack them in a van it takes up a ton of room just for one stack, which precludes them from being stacked out of the way in a corner in the vehicle.

the worst thing about the ace is carrying the dad gummed thing, you really have to carry them one at a time, anyone that loves the ace fans are the guys that sit in the office and never take a unit into the house. they look great and work great as long as YOU aren't the one having to move them around. lastly, last time I looked the price was $399 for the ace units as well. I do own 6 of them but I bought them used for $150 each, even at that price I would have to think about it, if I wanted more. for $400 bucks I till take daisy chaining and phoenix all day long.

 

[Larry Cobb]

axials are generally the nicer fans to have, they move more air and generally draw less amps, however recently there have been companies making low draw snail units as well, Viking has some, and the omnis are lower amp too, mytee also has a low amp snail, the problem with axials is they are $400+ for the phoenix, dryair and drieaz models ...

Viking's 1.6 amp airmover fan was a big hit @ Connections in Vegas.

Several thousand were sold in a couple of days.

It is great when you need four or five fans to create the vortex air flow pattern.

They also have a 2.5 amp model also.

Larry

 

[rotovacguy]

Just for the record Aces are still very popular many restorers won't trad them for anything.
As for low amp airmovers, don't be fooled less amps equals less air and slower drying.
Finally for those who want to believe in some kind of price conspiracy. Do you charge less because you pay less? I doubt it. As with most things you get what you pay for whether it's carpet cleaning or equipment.

Ok, I'm a bit confused by that statement. I have several Dry Air Tempest snail fans. They are rated to draw almost 5 amps on high speed. As far as the cfm rating, not really sure, never saw anything about that, but I would figure them to be around 2000-2500 cfm each.


Now Mytee makes the Tradewind 3000. It pulls 3000 cfm, while only drawing 2 amps. It has a smaller motor then my Tempest ( .25 HP vs .4 HP )


I would think the design of the fan blade / housing, and efficiency of the motor would be more of a factor than sheer amps to determine how much air they will move.

 

[Larry Cobb]

I would think the design of the fan blade / housing, and efficiency of the motor would be more of a factor than sheer amps to determine how much air they will move.

You are correct.

Fan Blade design ...
and new motors with more copper and higher efficiency make the difference.

Larry

 

[Bill Bruders]

Actually none of these air movers produce 2000 to 3000 CFM these are all theoretical numbers. More like 600 to 950. For years I have been calling for a industry standard of true performance. However no organization or other manufacturer has been willing to step up.

Regarding motors, there hasn't been any breakthrough in motor design that has improved efficiency to allow for the performance that is being represented by these manufacturers. Sure you can change the blade pitch a bit a get different CFM outputs, generally + or - 5%, but you compromise pressure and velocity which is critical for drying. The shell design can provide for a plus or minus 50 CFM difference but that’s it.

Without going into a whole physics discussion, there are “fan laws” that govern what can be done. Consider this 1 cubic foot of air at standard temperature and pressure assuming average composition weighs approximately 0.0807 lbs. so 2000 CFM times .0807 = 161.4lbs. This can’t be accomplished on .25 horse power there is not enough energy.

I’ll say it again you get what you pay for and while I admit my bias 8 out of 10 Restorers buy Dri-Eaz and have for the last 30 years because you can trust our products to provide you with the performance you need to be successful.

 

[rotovacguy]

OK, I'll have to take your word for it.


I'm just simply going by the "numbers" that are advertised. So if a 1/4 hp motor can't do it, how can the manufacturers claim those huge numbers while driving it with a relatively small motor? And what do you mean by "theoretical"? How do they come up with the cfm numbers?


I have yet to do a side by side comparison. As said, I'm only going by the advertised numbers. I don't have the coin to drop on axials at this time, but I do like the concept more, and will probably be adding some down the line. But in the meantime, my amp sucking snails are working fine. :mrgreen:

 

[Bill Bruders]

When I say the numbers are theoretical what I’m referring to is engineering specifications for the blower wheel in a free air condition and at the highest RPM possible. These numbers are not in an application such as a “snail” shell and there is no limitation to the horsepower that needs to be applied to get to the RPM level.

How can they get away with it, it’s pretty simple actually. There’s no law that governs manufacturers in this area other than the law of economics. As long as people purchase the product and reward over stated performance it will continue. When we posted real numbers on our products in an attempt to lead the industry to give cleaners and restorers the information they needed as I said before no one else followed suit. So before I get slammed yes we have rated numbers on our products as well. But I can assure you that the Sahara is as efficient as any other air mover on the market. The same for the Ace and the Jet CXV.

As I’ve noted in other postings over stating numbers happens in many products from truckmounts (heat, cfm, fuel consumption etc.) Dehumidifiers (pints per day), heaters (efficiency) and even a lot of the “chemistry” in the industry.

 

[steve g]

When I say the numbers are theoretical what I’m referring to is engineering specifications for the blower wheel in a free air condition and at the highest RPM possible. These numbers are not in an application such as a “snail” shell and there is no limitation to the horsepower that needs to be applied to get to the RPM level.

How can they get away with it, it’s pretty simple actually. There’s no law that governs manufacturers in this area other than the law of economics. As long as people purchase the product and reward over stated performance it will continue. When we posted real numbers on our products in an attempt to lead the industry to give cleaners and restorers the information they needed as I said before no one else followed suit. So before I get slammed yes we have rated numbers on our products as well. But I can assure you that the Sahara is as efficient as any other air mover on the market. The same for the Ace and the Jet CXV.

As I’ve noted in other postings over stating numbers happens in many products from truckmounts (heat, cfm, fuel consumption etc.) Dehumidifiers (pints per day), heaters (efficiency) and even a lot of the “chemistry” in the industry.

bill, thanks for coming out and calling a spade a spade, in regards to hyped ratings I know for a fact phoenix over rates their dehumidifiers big time. the thing that sucks about this is its probably cost drieaz a sale or to. because people looked at the phoenix 200 max and thought wow that really pulls alot more water than the drieaz 2000, the reality is the drieaz unit pulls about 40% more water despite its much lower rating.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Right on the money Bill! Thanks for your candor, although I think you've tried to make this point before. When the dust ever settles you can say "I told you so".

Thanks,
Lee

 

[Farenheit251]

Dri Eaz made the best and most durable. That is what we used on a daily basis. If you need to gear up to handle larger or more losses on a tight budget you can't beat the price on the Mytee snails,especially by the pallet.
Dri eaz for daily use,Mytees up on the top shelves waiting to pay for themselves on the first large job.

 

[LeeCory]

I have come to like the Dri-Eaz equipment. When I need to rent dehu's and airmovers the place I go has at least 50 Dri-Eaz 2000 dehu's and hundreds and hundreds of Dri-Eaz airmovers.

And I agree with Steve G 100% that the Dri-Eaz 2000 dehu pulls way more water than my Phoenix 200HT's. And that is NOT what the specs would indicate. I am happy with my 200HT's, but not when I set a Dri-Eaz 2000 nearby...

What if everyone that ever made a purchase decision based on "false and misleading" specs filed a lawsuit against those that do business that way?

 

[handdi]

customer that i cleaned two weeks ago main broke flooded basement
i was'nt the call but he wanted an estimate to clean the basement perfect oppurt to be nosey
So i went i took i look 25 fans 3 dehus running
red axials
had some drieaze jets i was most impressed with those
very nice fans
thats about 25000 of water jobs i have missed out on in the last 60 days
that i know of
Signed up for dewalds school in march got to get this wd goin soon
most of the wd equip i have is blue it is the best by far but also the most expensive
bill says ya get what ya pay for
we do preach that a aweful lot about our services also
Wonder if he may have mb specials at nashville in feb?
can get a few things in the pu and bring back.

 

[Bill Bruders]

The biggest concern I have about overstated water damage equipment performance is that the information is used to determine how many dehu's and airmovers need to be used on a water damage to dry the building fast and safely. Its enitrely possible for a well intending restorer to wind up with a liability issue from mold or in arguments with adjusters because thier jobs don't dry as expected using IICRC minimum equipment formulas which need true performance to work.

For 30 years we have been committed to making sure people have the best information available through our training classes, industry speaking and 24 hour technical support. Last year over 6000 people attended one of our training classes, a value added service we provide at an expense to the company (unlike others we don"t make money on training classes). As many of the people on this board can attest restoration is a good profitable service if you dedicate yourself to excellence, stay on top of the changing/evolving technical information and never compromise your business standards.

 

[Nate The Great]

For Steve G. and Leecory, I'm curious to your findings on the Phoenix 200ht results. Was your relative humidity and temp the same on each job? I read some place on the boards that the phoenix dehu's don't work good in cold climates. I'm just trying to make an informed opinion on the 2.


For Bill Bruders, when you say

But I can assure you that the Sahara is as efficient as any other air mover on the market.

Is that the base model air mover? The way I think of it is, the smaller motors can only produce so much power. Like a 4cyl car (.25hp AM) having to work harder then a (.33hp AM)6cyl or (.50 or 1. hp AM)8cyl to get the same proformance out of it.

Which will last longer?